Quote from: Brad;1119582Anyone can post whatever they want here, as long as it's about gaming. That's the entire point of this site per Pundit. It isn't my fault that SJWs have infiltrated so many areas of culture that it is literally impossible to talk about as something as insignificant as gaming without at least being forced to mention this sort of crap from time to time. Plus, there are a bunch of SJWs that post on this site, IN THIS VERY THREAD, so WTF are you supposed to do? If everyone who posted here completely avoided anything remotely resembling politics, the SJWs would overrun the board in a couple weeks. At least here they get some push-back, but somehow being able to express alternative opinions equates to "white nationalist echo chamber" to people on TBP. Posters like Bren want to seem themselves as morally superior for not wanting to engage in addressing these issues, but still be able to complain in the very threads they don't want to exist. You can't have it both ways; either don't post in the threads or accept the fact all this crap is due to a bunch of fascist leftists masquerading as freedom fighters dictating how games must be written and played, NOT some conservative, libertarian, or classical liberals bitching about a-historical nonsense cluttering up their pseudo-medieval RPG.

Greetings!

Fucking beautiful, Brad! Goddamn, that is spot the fuck on. I couldn't have described it better, my friend.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I've been tempted a few times to point out that this thread is pretty useless without receipts, and doesn't have any. So, fuck it, I'll go ahead and say it.

I'll also note that Iron Cross is brand new and showed up here with an axe to grind, no receipts, and a suspiciously allusionary moniker. Is Iron Cross really distressed, or is Iron Cross posting b8?

I'm a lifelong, bleeding-heart, out-of-touch, latte-sipping liberal and registered Democrat, and I've been meditating quite a bit on O'Sullivan's Law, and would like to lift my glass to Brad and SHARK. Cheers, mates.

It's pretty sad -- and a loss to gaming -- if a game called Chivalry and Sorcery has indeed veered so off course that it thinks half its name is "problematic" and wants to rant about $CURRENT_YEAR far-left politics.

Fuck if I know how to fix it, other than to play more, post more, treat people as individuals, and write good shit. God knows I'm trying to do all of that, and for the most part everyone else on TheRPGSite seems to be doing so as well.

May we all be united by our love of gaming, see brilliance clearly wherever it may occur, and be able to argue out the rest. And don't take the b8 m8s.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1119559It absolutely matters to players that they can set the physical characteristics of their character, even when those characteristics don't matter in any mechanical way.  I don't think I can count the number of players that have wanted an unusual physical characteristic like 'lavender eyes' or 'blue hair' or 'iridescent skin'.  The idea of playing a character that is a form of wish fulfillment is hardly controversial.  Having characters that are impossibly strong by mundane standards is well supported; having characters with a non-standard appearance is certainly worth considering. It's a minor concession to a player about something that has a major impact on how much they enjoy and invest in the game.  




I don't think your costuming is at all right.  

In any case, there are shows that are pseudo-historical that don't 'force diversity' if it wouldn't make sense.  I think the closest chow to what you're describing might be Outlander.  It is set in 18th century Scotland (not 9th century Ireland) and I don't think they have a character 'of color' until the show moves to the United States.  

Do you have an counterexample of where a historical show was completely 'brown-washed' and white characters were changed to people of color?  I can provide a few dozen examples of historical shows and movies where 'the good guys' were changed to be Americans when they were supposed to be British/Canadian/Australian, or where a real-life person of color was recast as a white person, or where a white person was cast as a PoC using makeup.  I like Breakfast at Tiffany's, but Mickey Rooney's role is cringe-inducing.

This is the goal you asshole and it is lot easier to obtain in an RPG than a scripted live action drama but they are working on it or have you never heard of an inclusion rider. Once inclusion riders get in-bedded the ratios will increase.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1119533Assuming those are two different and distinct categories.

Snap.

I agree with IP post links because if one is going to accuse a company of being too SJW it's on Iron Cross to provide the links. And no " go to their Facebook" is not enough. It's not my job to do so.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1119589I've been tempted a few times to point out that this thread is pretty useless without receipts, and doesn't have any. So, fuck it, I'll go ahead and say it.

I'll also note that Iron Cross is brand new and showed up here with an axe to grind, no receipts, and a suspiciously allusionary moniker. Is Iron Cross really distressed, or is Iron Cross posting b8?

I'm a lifelong, bleeding-heart, out-of-touch, latte-sipping liberal and registered Democrat, and I've been meditating quite a bit on O'Sullivan's Law, and would like to lift my glass to Brad and SHARK. Cheers, mates.

It's pretty sad -- and a loss to gaming -- if a game called Chivalry and Sorcery has indeed veered so off course that it thinks half its name is "problematic" and wants to rant about $CURRENT_YEAR far-left politics.

Fuck if I know how to fix it, other than to play more, post more, treat people as individuals, and write good shit. God knows I'm trying to do all of that, and for the most part everyone else on TheRPGSite seems to be doing so as well.

May we all be united by our love of gaming, see brilliance clearly wherever it may occur, and be able to argue out the rest. And don't take the b8 m8s.

I'm not posting bate.  I'm posting what I believe to be a legitimate issue on a free speech forum.  Anyone who wants to verify what I have posted should join the Chivalry and Sorcery FB forum and check it out and judge for themselves.  Stop trying to deligitimize me.

Quote from: sureshot;1119624I agree with IP post links because if one is going to accuse a company of being too SJW it's on Iron Cross to provide the links. And no " go to their Facebook" is not enough. It's not my job to do so.

I'm gonna have to agree with this--not that I mind complaining about SJW nonsense or criticizing ridiculous trends. But if you're gonna make accusations about someone or some org, specific examples with actual evidence is preferable to strong assurances that someone somewhere in a social media post that you are NOT gonna post said something + trust me, now go look for it. Otherwise it's just wild speculation and empty whining.

So asking someone who is accusing a company of being to SJW to post a link to the company site is  to "delegitimize" someone. It is not on us to trust the poster when they throw out such accusstions. Nor on us to nend over backwards looking for the forum.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1119559It's a minor concession to a player about something that has a major impact on how much they enjoy and invest in the game.  

Letting a player have iridescent skin and blue hair in a game of Chivalry and Sorcery isn't exactly a minor concession. It would destroy any pretense that the game is set in a historical time period. If a player is asking for something like this, then they aren't invested in the actual game that you are sitting down to play. That's really the core issue.

That you can't count the number of players with these types of demands shows a general problem with snowflakism. Rather than "wish fulfillment" being about playing a character capable of and willing to achieving great things, they wish simply to stand out from the crowd in the most superficial way possible. Again, the fact that you specify that these changes "don't matter in any mechanical way" means that the players want the benefit of being unique and distinct without the downside of being strange and weird.

Quote from: Iron Cross;1119635Anyone who wants to verify what I have posted should join the Chivalry and Sorcery FB forum and check it out and judge for themselves.  Stop trying to deligitimize me.

There's no way in hell I'm going to create a Facebook account in order to dig through the posts of some company's FB page just to try and find something you claim to be there. Screen shots or it didn't happen.

Quote from: Iron Cross;1119635Anyone who wants to verify what I have posted should join the Chivalry and Sorcery FB forum and check it out and judge for themselves.  Stop trying to delegitimize me.

Skepticism of assertions in the absence of actual provided evidence isn't delegitimization. I don't particularly want to join a Facebook forum because it would require reactivating my Facebook membership, which I deactivated eight years ago and have not missed.  Capturing and providing a few screenshots is generally not considered an unreasonable ask.

For what it's worth, I don't myself disbelieve you, simply because these days most RPG publishers will simply put up a greengrocer's sign in lip service to Wokeness rather than risk controversy. But if Britannia Games in particular is making more of it than a simple greengrocer's sign, I wouldn't mind seeing more examples of this without having to even temporarily go on record under my real name as a member.

Quote from: Iron Cross;1119635I'm not posting bate.  I'm posting what I believe to be a legitimate issue on a free speech forum.  Anyone who wants to verify what I have posted should join the Chivalry and Sorcery FB forum and check it out and judge for themselves.  Stop trying to deligitimize me.

You deligitimize yourself. I have been watching this thread because I am interested in the SJW lunacy in RPGs. But so far, this has been really weak tea. A few complaints with no direct evidence.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1119640Letting a player have iridescent skin and blue hair in a game of Chivalry and Sorcery isn't exactly a minor concession.

The game isn't to my taste, but the way that they combine elemental spells having a character with a 'magical mishap' in his or her past ins't exactly game-breaking.  Regarding the people I've played with, some are inspired by D&D directly, others came to fantasy from anime, others from fiction like Lord of the Rings, etc.  If you have a good group, it's pretty easy for the anime player to imagine himself with spiky blue hair and everyone else imagining him like Aragorn in Lord of the Rings - it doesn't have to be an issue unless you want it to be an issue.  The degree that you want it to be an issue is subject to discussion with the player and the DM.  Being automatically 'kill on site' or having everyone try to burn you as a witch might be more extreme than the player likes - but maybe they do want strange looks and distrust.  Once again, I can't begin to count the number of players I've had who wanted to be a mysterious loner in a dark hood with trust issues.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1119651The game isn't to my taste, but the way that they combine elemental spells having a character with a 'magical mishap' in his or her past ins't exactly game-breaking.  Regarding the people I've played with, some are inspired by D&D directly, others came to fantasy from anime, others from fiction like Lord of the Rings, etc.  If you have a good group, it's pretty easy for the anime player to imagine himself with spiky blue hair and everyone else imagining him like Aragorn in Lord of the Rings - it doesn't have to be an issue unless you want it to be an issue.  The degree that you want it to be an issue is subject to discussion with the player and the DM.  Being automatically 'kill on site' or having everyone try to burn you as a witch might be more extreme than the player likes - but maybe they do want strange looks and distrust.  Once again, I can't begin to count the number of players I've had who wanted to be a mysterious loner in a dark hood with trust issues.

I think you are right that many players will want some kind of shtick that sets them out from the common druck. Yes they want to be different, and as you say, the mysterious loner who doesn't quite fit in is a popular character concept. I've seen that one as well.

It's also fair to say that iridescent skin or blue hair on a pc would break immersion for most gms and players in a "medieval authentic" type game. Lavender eyes are possible, of course, and in a more fantasy setting, all of these may be possible.

In any case, some shticks will be setting-appropriate, and some won't. That is where we get into the weeds in discussions like this, and we especially get into those weeds in historical settings. In a pure fantasy setting, there is far more latitude to say blue hair, proudly trans, whatever, sure. It's in the historical settings where people will get defensive and argue about what is historically accurate or plausible. Immersion is more easily broken in an historical setting people believe they actually know something about. People care about fantasy, but they care even more about their preconceptions of history.

Which is where we find ourselves now. Complicated by the fact that we have been given no evidence that the developers of this particular edition of C&S are promoting any immersion-breaking stuff whatsoever.

Personally, I believe the paradox that BoxCrayonTales presented for us is actually even more interesting, since it extends beyond history and applies to fantasy too, but whatever. Perhaps another thread.

EDITED TO ADD: ps I agree that going out of your way to punish players for whatever their distinctive shtick is OTT. it should be more nuanced. You want to be different? Fine. There's upsides, there's downsides. The PC should expect to encounter both.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1119589I've been tempted a few times to point out that this thread is pretty useless without receipts, and doesn't have any. So, fuck it, I'll go ahead and say it.

I'll also note that Iron Cross is brand new and showed up here with an axe to grind, no receipts, and a suspiciously allusionary moniker. Is Iron Cross really distressed, or is Iron Cross posting b8?

I'm a lifelong, bleeding-heart, out-of-touch, latte-sipping liberal and registered Democrat, and I've been meditating quite a bit on O'Sullivan's Law, and would like to lift my glass to Brad and SHARK. Cheers, mates.

It's pretty sad -- and a loss to gaming -- if a game called Chivalry and Sorcery has indeed veered so off course that it thinks half its name is "problematic" and wants to rant about $CURRENT_YEAR far-left politics.

Fuck if I know how to fix it, other than to play more, post more, treat people as individuals, and write good shit. God knows I'm trying to do all of that, and for the most part everyone else on TheRPGSite seems to be doing so as well.

May we all be united by our love of gaming, see brilliance clearly wherever it may occur, and be able to argue out the rest. And don't take the b8 m8s.

Greetings!

Thank you, my friend. You do me honour! My salute to you as well, Insubordinate Polyhedral!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK