Quote from: estar;1118969Download the basic rules and judge for yourself. The tone and tenor is the same as the core books.
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

It's really not preachy in the Core AFAICS. Nor in Xanathar's. The 5e adventures start to get icky once Darth Crawford takes full control and abolishes the Imperial Senate ....or puts Mearls in the shed out back.

I got and did a quick scan of chivalry and sorcery 5e. I did notice sections on people of color and women. Will read those later, but real medieval history wasn't nearly as pale and mannish as media and some of the writings that date back to the 17th century would have you believe

Quote from: estar;1118969Download the basic rules and judge for yourself. The tone and tenor is the same as the core books.
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

Sorry, should have been more specific; I meant the Chivalry and Sorcery 5E game.  D&D 5E I don't really have much interest in. Thanks, though!

Quote from: estar;1118969Download the basic rules and judge for yourself. The tone and tenor is the same as the core books.
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

Right, theres like all of one line in the PHB and thats it.

Other books... Well thats another story and as for what their staff occasionally push, thats a totally different story. So far its been pretty minor really compared to some other companies.

Quote from: TNMalt;1118979real medieval history wasn't nearly as pale and mannish as media and some of the writings that date back to the 17th century would have you believe

It wasn't full of African-Americans - the only racial Diversity SJWs actually seem to care about - either.

Just plain Africans since America wasn't colonized yet. But they were around as traders and such.

Quote from: S'mon;1119000It wasn't full of African-Americans - the only racial Diversity SJWs actually seem to care about - either.

Greetings!

Yeah, really! Just like there have been occasional white people over there in far eastern Asia, in China. In the vast ocean of Chinese people, over the centuries, who gives a fuck that a few white people showed up on the fringes now and then?

The same thing about black Africans in fucking Europe. Or white people down in most of Africa, certainly sub-Saharan Africa. Europe was still White, just like Africa was black. Why is this concept so fucking difficult for these morons to understand?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: TNMalt;1119005Just plain Africans since America wasn't colonized yet. But they were around as traders and such.

Sub-Saharan West Africans, the ancestors of modern African-Americans, were not around in medieval Europe as traders and such. To all intents and purposes they were not around at all. Arabs took slaves from the east African coast, but they didn't get to Europe. In the west Arabs were raiding western Europe for slaves, and there was basically no interaction between western Europe and sub-Saharan west Africa until the end of the Middle Ages, post-Reconquista.

Quote from: S'mon;1119039Sub-Saharan West Africans, the ancestors of modern African-Americans, were not around in medieval Europe as traders and such. To all intents and purposes they were not around at all. Arabs took slaves from the east African coast, but they didn't get to Europe. In the west Arabs were raiding western Europe for slaves, and there was basically no interaction between western Europe and sub-Saharan west Africa until the end of the Middle Ages, post-Reconquista.

A lot of people seem to want a setting that smears together everything from King Arthur to the Victorians, in which case all the documented Tudor- or Elizabethan-era black people in England matter. There are so many bad "abandoned mansion" modules with pseudoVictorian mansions, or even "fantasy city" supplements full of 19th century industries & conceits.

I have to deal with what my players want, but I'm personally more interested of late in worldbuilding with a bronze or iron age feeling, in which case all the documented Roman-era black people in England matter.

Quote from: SHARK;1119006Yeah, really! Just like there have been occasional white people over there in far eastern Asia, in China. In the vast ocean of Chinese people, over the centuries, who gives a fuck that a few white people showed up on the fringes now and then?

The same thing about black Africans in fucking Europe. Or white people down in most of Africa, certainly sub-Saharan Africa. Europe was still White, just like Africa was black. Why is this concept so fucking difficult for these morons to understand?

China is 8,000 miles away from Western Europe -- that's quite remote. Whereas Africa is right next to Europe, 8 miles distant at its nearest point. Parts of Europe were occupied by Africans -- and parts of Africa by Europeans -- throughout the medieval period. That's a completely different case than Europe and China. There was frequent trade and migration through Spain of many people.

The comparison is completely unlike. You qualify about sub-Saharan Africans -- but by making that distinction just makes clearer that there's no hard line. Northern Africans mixed with both sub-Saharan Africans and Europeans as well as Arabs.

Quote from: S'mon;1119039Sub-Saharan West Africans, the ancestors of modern African-Americans, were not around in medieval Europe as traders and such. To all intents and purposes they were not around at all. Arabs took slaves from the east African coast, but they didn't get to Europe. In the west Arabs were raiding western Europe for slaves, and there was basically no interaction between western Europe and sub-Saharan west Africa until the end of the Middle Ages, post-Reconquista.

But this claim of "no interaction" ignores all of northern Africa. SHARK claims "Europe was still White, just like Africa was black" -- but there was plenty of mixing throughout northern Africa, Spain, and Italy.

As I recall from my old 2nd edition copy of Chivalry & Sorcery -- it had options for varying cultures in it, notably in the magic system, which had pagan shaman and Jewish cabalists as well as more mainstream Christian Hermetic magicians and alchemists. I haven't read the 5th edition yet, but I'd be curious to hear more about how they expanded options.

Quote from: jhkim;1119049But this claim of "no interaction" ignores all of northern Africa.

Which AFAIK is mostly ethically Arab. But every time people bring up how north Africa is within spitting distance of Europe what they mean is that therefore Africans (as in "black" people) must have been common. But that isn't quite the race that dominates that portion of Africa.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1119051Which AFAIK is mostly ethically Arab. But every time people bring up how north Africa is within spitting distance of Europe what they mean is that therefore Africans (as in "black" people) must have been common. But that isn't quite the race that dominates that portion of Africa.

The continent of Africa has a monolithic culture, it is in no way diverse whatsoever.

Quote from: SHARK;1119006Greetings!

who gives a fuck that a few white people showed up on the fringes now and then?

Marco?

Quote from: jhkimBut this claim of "no interaction" ignores all of northern Africa.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1119051Which AFAIK is mostly ethically Arab. But every time people bring up how north Africa is within spitting distance of Europe what they mean is that therefore Africans (as in "black" people) must have been common. But that isn't quite the race that dominates that portion of Africa.

That's exactly my point. Dividing things into "black" and "white" -- with Europe being white and Africa being black is wrong.

It's ignoring northern Africa along with medieval Spain and Italy.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1118905What is the appropriate number of threads?

1 seems like plenty. 3 is an overdose.