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tl;dr: looking for some thoughts regarding latest edition of Chill RPG, thank you.

(http://www.triskellian.com/badger/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/chill3e-232x300.jpg)

A bit longer version (please disregard if it's not relevant to your viewpoint - I'm not skilled enough to defend my own preferences and frankly, I don't think I should):

I loved CHILL back in old days, when it was one of seldom games, with horror well done. I perceived it as one of precursors of "shady group/organization fighting evil from above" theme, very popular right now, featured in RPGs (Esoterrorists), cinema/telly (Supernatural tv series) and other forms of entertainment (SCP Organization and alike), even in spite the fact that it was a bit rough on the edges (frankly, which game wasn't back then?)

I was very happy to learn about CHILL being released as a modern game, featuring updated content and ruleset, and I was determined to buy it.

Then, a few of my friends who already got it gave me the warning that the game features no short number of LGBT-SJW-PC elements. While this alone is not that big problem, they were described to be "interwoven in the game's setting, but serving little to no purpose". In short, controversial elements added for the sake of being there.

There were supposed to be parts of lore where characters were described as "xxx,yyy,zzz, oh, and a gay", pregenerated characters whose backgrounds involved gender switch, or a discovery of alternative sexual preferences for no apparent reason and without any observable purpose aside of "just because".

Now, I'm not denying being highly prejudiced creature, but it's not that I'd like to crucify everyone who don't do things as I do (meaning: everyone else). I can easily disregard elements that don't match my tastes and opinions, for the purpose of enjoying well done product, be it a game, a movie or a book. However I have a serious trouble with bad design and cheap marketing moves.

Here's where I need some help. I'm neither rich enough to simply buy a game and check how things are, nor I play that often to risk buying a book that won't be used.

So, anyone read it/plays it? Is it really that bad, or it's just an exaggeration and while some elements involve propaganda, it actually plays with the setting, or, perhaps is even fun?

Once again: please disregard this topic if it's itself "too controversial" or something. The point of this topic is to settle whether it's a game for me, not to discuss what's supposed to be universally acceptable and what not.

Goblinoid Press' Cryptworld is the true spiritual successor to the old Pacesetter Chill. You might want to check that out. They recently released a fun bestiary for it as well, titled Monsters Macabre.

Quote from: 3rik;879310Goblinoid Press' Cryptworld is the true spiritual successor to the old Pacesetter Chill. You might want to check that out. They recently released a fun bestiary for it as well, titled Monsters Macabre.

I didn't realize that. Thank you for the recommendation.

For the record, we're talking about this thingie?

(https://www.blackgate.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/CryptWorld1.jpg)

Yup, and this thingie.

(http://diehardgamefan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/cryptworld.png)

I haven't seen that cover, maybe they have a different one for the physical book, which is weird. Anyway, it's a good game, but the organization is very annoying. I honestly don't remember the elements of which you speak, but then again, I tend to gloss over pregens and stuff.

Cryptworld is like the OSR version, using the original system. It's much smaller, easier to use, and cheaper.

Chill three uses some FATE like mechanics.  Mainly the players got light powers and the GM gets to use dark powers.  The more light powers are used the more dark powers is gained and vice versa.  In other words you don't want to use powers because that means you get to starve the monsters so they can't use powers.  So in short mechanics designed to screw the players for the sake of some bullshit drama that never needed to happen.

Quote from: Snowman0147;879339Chill three uses some FATE like mechanics.  Mainly the players got light powers and the GM gets to use dark powers.  The more light powers are used the more dark powers is gained and vice versa.  In other words you don't want to use powers because that means you get to starve the monsters so they can't use powers.  So in short mechanics designed to screw the players for the sake of some bullshit drama that never needed to happen.

I take it you're not a fan :)

Quote from: brettmb;879340I take it you're not a fan :)

You would be correct sir.  Mainly because mechanics like these are designed to screw both the GM and the players.  The GM should give each monster their own energy pool and the players should have their own energy pool.  Hell if you want it fair count all the player energies and just make collective dark energy pool that is equal to the total.

Point is you don't want a conversion system that is featured in chill.  Smart players are going to starve the monsters from much needed energies and malicious GMs will do the same to the players.  Just a bad mechanic all around.

Quote from: Snowman0147;879342You would be correct sir.  Mainly because mechanics like these are designed to screw both the GM and the players.  The GM should give each monster their own energy pool and the players should have their own energy pool.  Hell if you want it fair count all the player energies and just make collective dark energy pool that is equal to the total.

Point is you don't want a conversion system that is featured in chill.  Smart players are going to starve the monsters from much needed energies and malicious GMs will do the same to the players.  Just a bad mechanic all around.

Can't argue with that.

I like that cover, but the bit of text on the left 'Courage is the price for looking into the unknown' is annoying me.

Also, some of the art in there is amazing, but I'm old school Chill, and this doesn't have the same feel.

BTW, the cover in the OP is from the abandoned Chill Third Edition by Other World Creations:

http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=11916

Here's the version you're thinking of:

http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=21037

(http://diehardgamefan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/chill1.png)

I don't really like either of them. The 3E cover is too close to the Mayfair cover, which was awful. All that fancy art inside and they couldn't use it for the cover?

Thanks for the input guys. So far it seems that while CHILL might not be that bad as some among my colleagues claim, there's also little to call it worthy of time and money. This is kind of heartbreaking, since it'll be nth game announced as "the next best invention since a toilet paper" turns out to be just a boring, uncreative crap.

I'll check how things are with CRYPTWORLD. Thank you very much for the recommendation and for the help.

The thing is that I wouldn't call it uncreative crap. It is a good game, but there are some small issues here and there with it. It has some good source material and the system is quite usable.

I honestly haven't looked much into Chill 3E. It somehow just rubs me the wrong way, though this is absolutely not a well-informed opinion. I do know I really like Cryptworld.

Quote from: 3rik;879463I honestly haven't looked much into Chill 3E. It somehow just rubs me the wrong way, though this is absolutely not a well-informed opinion. I do know I really like Cryptworld.

Yup. Daniel Proctor and Tim Snider did a great job.

Quote from: brettmb;879474Yup. Daniel Proctor and Tim Snider did a great job.

While RPG horror "classics" like Kult and Call of Cthulhu generally aim at emulating quite a dark and serious mood, though they certainly don't always have to be played as such, Cryptworld is definitely a game that puts the fun back in horror.

Quote from: sniderman;879318Yup, and this thingie.

Quote from: brettmb;879336Cryptworld is like the OSR version, using the original system. It's much smaller, easier to use, and cheaper.

Quote from: 3rik;879543While RPG horror "classics" like Kult and Call of Cthulhu generally aim at emulating quite a dark and serious mood, though they certainly don't always have to be played as such, Cryptworld is definitely a game that puts the fun back in horror.

I finished another project, so I can dedicate more attention to CRYPTWORLD now. Each time I steal a few sentences, I recall works like "Dylan Dog", "Kolchak", or those classical movies like "Blob", "Critters" or "Tales from the Crypt" tv series, which is exactly the kind of mood I was hoping for. In fact, I already prepared mini-setting for the purpose of "small town, extraordinarily problems" series of scenarios and I attempted to find some rules to run it, while I was awaiting next edition of CHILL.

I need to finish CW and pay special attention to the ruleset, but so far, I'm very hyped about it and I think it'll be perfect to torment citizens of my little town. ;]

Thanks again, guys!

So what was the verdict on the new Chill? Did anyone see any of the SJW/PC/whatever elements in the book or was it just hearsay?

Quote from: Omega;879772So what was the verdict on the new Chill? Did anyone see any of the SJW/PC/whatever elements in the book or was it just hearsay?

I dunno, didn't read it yet. However, the important thing I see here is lack of interest. Good, well done games rarely meet with that much of a cold shoulder. So, no matter whether it's the case of bad rules update, fluff being rewritten in a wrong way, or indeed, the introduction of Politically Correct elements (as my colleagues suggested), or all at once. It seems that Chill isn't what it used to be.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;879782I dunno, didn't read it yet. However, the important thing I see here is lack of interest. Good, well done games rarely meet with that much of a cold shoulder. So, no matter whether it's the case of bad rules update, fluff being rewritten in a wrong way, or indeed, the introduction of Politically Correct elements (as my colleagues suggested), or all at once. It seems that Chill isn't what it used to be.

I think the Kickstarter was pretty successful. No idea where those backers hang out online but it's apparently not here.

To answer the OP's original question, I didn't recall seeing that much "SJW stuff" so I grabbed my book last night to re-read the pregens.

Each of the pregens gets a full page character sheet.  The top half is all game mechanics while the bottom "half" (lots of white space) is split between a picture of the character and a short description/background.  The backgrounds are roughly 10 sentences long.  Here are the names and any other descriptive details that stand out.

Genevieve Ashford – Canadian, black, female, 28
Basil "BB" Bottomley – Australian, white, male, 30
Rory Calhoun – American, white, transgender man, 30
Miranda Chase – American, white, female, 36
Tyler Copeland – American, black, male, 23
Tessie Dillon – white, female, 23
Nicole Friedman – Israeli parents but grew up in Europe and America, female, 25
Noriko Frost – ½ Japanese ½ American, looks Asian, female, 22
Maria Gallegos – Filipino, w/ recent American citizenship, female, 33
Detective Hector Gonzalez – Mexican, Hispanic, male, 41
Alfred Johnson – Canadian, white, male, 50
Jennifer Joyce – American, white, female, 28
Dr. Jong Koo Kim- South Korean born, sent to USA as a teen, male, 60
Miakoda Lawrence – Native American, female, 24, lesbian/bi?
Moira Malkin- Irish Protestant and French Jewish parents, white, female, 30
Christopher Monroe- American, white, male 34, works as a drag queen
Bradley Oulette- American, white, male, 25, paralyzed from waist down
John Post, Esq.- American, white, male, 44
Thomas Simpson- American, black, male, 45
Amy Veeres- white, transgender female, 24

The 2 trans people's histories are a bit awkward to read.  In Rory's case it is just stuck in the middle and mentions that he began transitioning 2 years ago and his father (who has advanced dementia) sometimes forgets and asks for his "daughter" (the quotes on daughter are theirs, not mine).

For Amy, the first sentence starts "When she was a little boy".  It continues to refer to her as him for half the background and then switches to female pronouns after saying "Ten years later, Amy has discovered that she is a transwoman."

For Miakoda, the only way you would know she was a lesbian, or maybe bi, is that they mention she had to leave her girlfriend behind when she joined the military.

Thanks. So more like mildly PC inclusionist at worst. Nothing to really concern over.

Quote from: rgalex;879979To answer the OP's original question, I didn't recall seeing that much "SJW stuff" so I grabbed my book last night to re-read the pregens.

Thanks!

So, it seems there's some truth to that "SJW/PC infested" claim, even if it's not as horrible as I've heard.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;879985Thanks!

So, it seems there's some truth to that "SJW/PC infested" claim, even if it's not as horrible as I've heard.

Eh. Reads more like a GI Joe roster. :cool:

Quote from: Omega;879987Eh. Reads more like a GI Joe roster. :cool:

Perhaps, but the kitty said these backgrounds are kind of awkward, underdeveloped with the sexuality treated merely like a badge or something. Not my kind of shit. ;]

Just for completeness, this is one of the pregens from the book.

(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o263/rgalex/20160219_124815_zpsvvi4guyn.jpg) (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/rgalex/media/20160219_124815_zpsvvi4guyn.jpg.html)

All the pregens are like this.  After them, again, I don't really recall much of anything that made me roll my eyes, but I know some people have a much lower tolerance.

As for the game?  I haven't had a chance to run it but it reads solid and is pretty straight forward in it's presentation.  You may or may not like the light/dark token mechanic, but it's no different than other games that have things some people like and others don't (Savage Worlds and it's Bennies for example).

The 75 or so pages on the history of the setting was obviously a work of love for someone.  It's a very interesting read but I can't really see where a lot of it will be useful when the dice hit the table.  It could probably have been 1/2 as long and just as useful.

That reads kinda weird.
So is Rory a guy transitioning to a girl, or a girl transitioning to a guy? The father asking for his daughter suggests the second?

It is a little odd to foist that off on a player as a pregen. Feels more like an interesting NPC background.

Quote from: rgalex;880029Just for completeness, this is one of the pregens from the book.

Thanks again, man! I appreciate it.

Quote from: Omega;880130That reads kinda weird.
So is Rory a guy transitioning to a girl, or a girl transitioning to a guy? The father asking for his daughter suggests the second?

It is a little odd to foist that off on a player as a pregen. Feels more like an interesting NPC background.

It's like they didn't think it through, merely stitched some scraps together hastily and called it a day.

They even have the token cripple. Id give them points for adding someone handicapped but the roster reads like they were checking off down the PC list.

But since its just the pregens its not a issue really other than its oddness. Its like reading through Beyond the Supernatural and then hitting that section in the back about playing a Buffy-esque game with the teenager pregens and near Scooby Do level mini-adventure after reading though all the proto-Rifts setting tone.  wha?

So is this the week where we talk about less-popular horror RPGs?

If so, Beyond the Supernatural should be next! I liked it more than KULT or CHILL.

Quote from: RPGPundit;881212So is this the week where we talk about less-popular horror RPGs?

If so, Beyond the Supernatural should be next! I liked it more than KULT or CHILL.

Unfortunately, this is the week when we discuss Conan, SF and outskirts of gaming design. However! You were just chosen and bestowed with the right to start a new thread concerning whatever topic you dream about. Use this power wisely... :pundit:

...oh wait, this is my monitor, not a GM's screen. ;)

You know, that's a very good idea!