Quote from: J ArcaneAre you now, or have you ever been, a communist?

"Yes or no! Have you stopped beating your wife?"

!i!

Quote from: JimBobOzWhere's PIGames fit in all that?

PIGames isn't even recognized as existing

Quote from: J ArcaneAre you now, or have you ever been, a communist?

Don't go down this path J. Not the whole camera obscura and D&D debate....again

Regards,
David R

Quote from: James McMurrayI'm guessing White Wolf doesn't have a large South American branch. Unlike, say, Hasbro they don't have the funding or personnel to do much multinationally. It doesn't surprise me in the least that it would be hard to find anyone playing any WW game in Uruguay.

In South America Exalted is nonexistent.  There are people here who play vampire and werewolf, but no one plays Exalted. But I was also talking about Canada. You can't just use the excuse of it being a "third world backwater" to wriggle out of that.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Pierce InverarityPundy can't deal with the fact that Exalted is bigger than all Forge games combined and then some. He wants White Wolf games to be part of the looney fringe, and the mainstream to be d20 only.

Exalted could very well be (and quite possibly is) bigger sales-wise than all the Forge games put together, and yet still be utterly irrelevant when compared to the sales of other games.

Its not that hard to out-sell everything the Forge has ever put out all together.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Abyssal MawI liken this entire thing to an alternate universe where people discuss model trains.


Okay, so most of the people are working on their train sets.

Some of the model trains fans (let's say.. less than a tenth) prefer to work on model tractors. In fact, many of the tractor guys (not all, but a good percentage) have TOTALLY REJECTED model trains. In favor of tractors. Which, as everyone knows, are far more mature and less geeky than trains. Sure, trains are more popular. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE ANY GOOD. Everyone knows that.

Then there's a couple of guys (and really this is just a few- tiny numbers here) who also like to act out interpretive dances that sometimes deal with trains, and sometimes with tractors. And sometimes just general flapping their arms and legs around, nonsensically. They actually haven't touched a model in years. Once a year they hold a convention in which they showcase various new dances that sometimes involve a loose interpretation of trains and tractors.

Someone starts an internet site dedicated to the "modeling" hobby.

Most of the train guys are actually too busy with trains to bother taking part.

The tractor guys want to show everyone how relevant they are. They REALLY REALLY want you to know how important tractors are. In fact, they even have a tractor shaped like a train. AND ITS TOTALLY NOT A TRAIN.

Then the interpretive dancers keep showing up and demand that everyone try out their new tractor-train dances, most of which involve flapping around in a weird way. Every once in a while they convince a tractor modeler to try out a dance. Most of the times this works like one time. But every once in a while they find that special someone who is actually tired of both tractors, trains and making models.. and just kinda wants to flap around. Luckily the dancers only actually get together once a year, and they all keep in touch on the internet talking about various flapping techniques.

See, this is it carried to a ridiculous extreme...

...this whole thing has more akin to an argument over what standard track width should be.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI don't need to. And your calling me chicken is a pathetic attempt at bullying.  You're really in poor form today.

Now, shall we explore what you're afraid of, what with your imaginary war and all?

!i!

If you weren't scared, you'd answer the fucking question.  Do you think D&D is commercial and shit? Yes or no? If you're so utterly spineless as to be unwilling to stand for something that simple one way or the other, then you really aren't qualified to talk about anything whatsoever and be taken seriously.

RPGPundit

Quote from: J ArcaneAre you now, or have you ever been, a communist?

So you're acknowledging that admitting that you think D&D is commercial & shit is actually something to be ashamed of?

RPGPundit

From a Game store worker perspective:

 EXALTED just sits there these days.

When we first opened in 2003 we would get a burst in sales on EXALTED books whenever a new one was released. There used to be one enthusiastic bunch of players that would stop by and ask about it. (and tell their damn character strories - oy!!) That bunch of players has now mostly switched to D&D /D20.

 The "normal" roleplayer that frequents our store is usually playing D20 (D&D) or some variant of it . For example : there was a recent uptick in Mutants & Masterminds locally. I don't know why ...but there was a 6 month long surge of interest and sales in that. STILL, its technically using the OGL/D20 mechanics.
 The other top 5 for our store are : World of Darkness, WARHAMMER Fantasy Roleplay , GURPS, RIFTS/Palladium and HERO system.   With a small spinkling handful looking for some version of BESM every 3 or 4 months.

We have other RPGS like GODLIKE, for instance, or STAR THUGS - there just aren't groups of players playing those on a regular schedule that i can tell.  And we DO get hit by 3 or 4 members of a gaming group at the same time. Some weeks, like clockwork,  I can tell that their game is only an hour after they shop with us.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Ian Absentia"Yes or no! Have you stopped beating your wife?"

!i!

I don't see how answering the question of whether or not you think D&D is commercial and shit equates to a "trap" question like "have you stopped beating your wife"?

If we were asking "do you STILL think D&D is commercial & shit", that'd be another story... but seriously, are you now equating believing D&D is shit to wife-beating?

I mean, what the fuck is the problem with the question? Either you think that D&D is commercial and shit, or you don't. Its called making a fucking stand, a statement of belief.  The fact that you can't do it demonstrates some pretty profound lack of faith in your own convictions.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditSo you're acknowledging that admitting that you think D&D is commercial & shit is actually something to be ashamed of?

RPGPundit

No, I'm acknowledging that your behavior resembles that of former Senator Joseph McCarthy.

Quote from: J ArcaneNo, I'm acknowledging that your behavior resembles that of former Senator Joseph McCarthy.

How so? In what way is me asking Ian to take a stand one way or the other on what he believes some form of entrapment?
You people are fucking idiots if you really think that this, me expecting you guys to be intellectually honest about where you're coming from, is the same as some kind of persecution or witch-hunt where you're suffering for your beliefs.  

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditHow so? In what way is me asking Ian to take a stand one way or the other on what he believes some form of entrapment?
You people are fucking idiots if you really think that this, me expecting you guys to be intellectually honest about where you're coming from, is the same as some kind of persecution or witch-hunt where you're suffering for your beliefs.  

RPGPundit

Except that if you weren't so quick to see the Red Menace everywhere, and actually paid attention to what anyone has actually said on this board, maybe you'd realize your aim is more than a bit off.

This talk always seems like big business vs. mom & pop stores or more to the point peoples preferences on where to shop.  I do 90% of my shopping in chains but it still doesn't mean I'll stop trying the smaller chains for something as good or better whether it's convenience, atmosphere, quality, or just liking being able to communicate with the owner.  Just because you are small doesn't mean you're insignificant.

Quote from: J ArcaneExcept that if you weren't so quick to see the Red Menace everywhere, and actually paid attention to what anyone has actually said on this board, maybe you'd realize your aim is more than a bit off.

Look, if someone asked me "Do you think that D&D is crap", or say, "Do you think that Dogs in the Vinyard is crap?", I would have no trouble answering them straight.  Why the fuck do the other guys have so much trouble being straight up about what they think, unless they realize that the only way they can get ahead is by lying about their true sentiments?

RPGPundit