Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThat was never the question.  If you're trying to be provocative, you'll have to work harder.

If the purported "normal gamer" has never been exposed to any games outside of the local favorites, that's not a virtue -- that's a deficit.  The local favorites might be Exalted and NWoD like they are at one store I visit, or D&D and its attendant variants like at another store I visit.

How's that for staying on topic?

!i!

I notice you failed to answer Sett's question.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditI notice you failed to answer Sett's question.

His question, and my answer, are immaterial to the discussion.  You're not very good at this either.  If you're going to shoehorn words into my mouth to create drama, you're going to have to try much harder.

!i!

Quote from: Andy KDid they, really?  Or are you just projecting?  

I'm not asking you to "find evidence" or other rhetorical BS, but I honestly think if I said to someone who loved Wushu and it was all they talked about (who was that guy from RPGNet? Only talked about Wushu, and how he hated gamers?), and in attempt to totally try to stamp out their enthusiasm said, "Hey, when you say 'Wushu is getting popular', you really mean, '...with a handful of gamers on RPGnet', right?" ...I really, truly don't think that they're blinded by love or obsession enough to say, "NO, I mean 'getting popular with EVERYONE' ".

Right now there's a thread on RPG.net entitled "From RPG net Darling to Mainstream?" where people are making exactly the kinds of claims we're referring to here.

Not to mention another thread called "The Next Big System" where someone suggests that Fate will be that system, and others are absurdly suggesting that Exalted is the current Big System (and not D20).
I mean fuck, that is so utterly removed from reality that they couldn't have been more ridiculous if they'd suggested that pod people from neptune were going to write the next big RPG.  NO ONE HAS FUCKING HEARD OF FATE IN THE REAL WORLD.
And as for Exalted, I not only do not know ANYONE who has actually played Exalted in the real world, I don't even know anyone who knows anyone in the real world who has played Exalted. In my entire history as a gamer, I have met only one person in the real world who actually owned the Exalted book, and he regretted buying it.  Its a nonentity, popular only in the sick minds of the RPG.net fashionistas.


RPGPundit

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHis question, and my answer, are immaterial to the discussion.  You're not very good at this either.  If you're going to shoehorn words into my mouth to create drama, you're going to have to try much harder.

!i!

Its a perfectly simple question: are you afraid of answering it?

"Do you think D&D is commercial & shit?" Yes or no?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditRight now there's a thread on RPG.net entitled "From RPG net Darling to Mainstream?" where people are making exactly the kinds of claims we're referring to here.

It'd be nice to know in advance just whose positions we're standing in for on these threads.

Also: Sett's question only makes sense if he himself ONLY plays D20 D&D and nothing else.

Peace,
-Joel

Quote from: Andy KI have no idea what a Ruy Lopez Opening or a Sicilian Defense is

Andy, any time you fancy a game of chess, just let me know.

I am SO gonna kick your ass with the Ruy Lopez Opening and the Sicilian Defense.

- Q

Quote from: RPGPunditRight now there's a thread on RPG.net entitled "From RPG net Darling to Mainstream?" where people are making exactly the kinds of claims we're referring to here.

Not to mention another thread called "The Next Big System" where someone suggests that Fate will be that system, and others are absurdly suggesting that Exalted is the current Big System (and not D20).
I mean fuck, that is so utterly removed from reality that they couldn't have been more ridiculous if they'd suggested that pod people from neptune were going to write the next big RPG.  NO ONE HAS FUCKING HEARD OF FATE IN THE REAL WORLD.
And as for Exalted, I not only do not know ANYONE who has actually played Exalted in the real world, I don't even know anyone who knows anyone in the real world who has played Exalted. In my entire history as a gamer, I have met only one person in the real world who actually owned the Exalted book, and he regretted buying it.  Its a nonentity, popular only in the sick minds of the RPG.net fashionistas.


RPGPundit

And again I ask, so what?

Is the discussion of an incorrect perception that a crappy game is wildly popular going to suddenly make it sweep through the "actual gamer" crowd like wildfire?

What if the game is good, does that change anything?

QuoteAlso: Sett's question only makes sense if he himself ONLY plays D20 D&D and nothing else.

That´s fucking stupidity.

I know enough people, who play D&D once a week and have no interest whatsoever in any other kind of RPG. I am different, but I that´s not the point.

EDIT: It´s interesting how Ian dodges the question. It shows he´s a forger/swine submarine. Poisonous torpedoes, cowardice and all that.

When I was fourteen, I enjoyed playing Monopoly. I got into the limited strategy the game affords and played with friends and family. You can find a Monopoly board just about anywhere you go.

Somehow, and I can't remember how, I got interested in hex-grid wargames around that year. I also started reading a hobby magazine in the school library, and getting interested in games you couldn't find in everybody's living room.

That doesn't make me a better person. It just means I'm more aware than the average person of the range of board games available. And I'm sick of  Monopoly.

Quote from: MelinglorAlso: Sett's question only makes sense if he himself ONLY plays D20 D&D and nothing else.

Peace,
-Joel

Not at all. I don't think D&D is commercial and shit, and yet I play more than just D&D. Its not that hard a question.

RPGPundit

Quote from: GrimGentEh, the largest chain of game stores in this country lists Scion: Hero as one of the recent bestsellers. In fact, the last time I checked their site, it was #1 on the list that's usually dominated by D&D and WoD.

And in a few weeks, D&D will be back on top. Because it has staying power - Spanish Fly and all that.

Seanchai

Quote from: SettembriniBecause people take too much pride in their geekdom and games-knowledge.

And being the rebel who bashes D&D/d20.

Seanchai

I have no idea what "normal" is. I mean my current group only played TSR and then WoTC games before I showed up. Since I joined the crew they have played Over the Edge, WFRP, Feng Shui, Hunter, In Harms Way, GURPS, SW (d6), Savage Worlds, Nicotine Girls, Dogs in the Vineyard, Fading Suns, Heroquest, Traveller, Cyberpunk 2020, Castle Faulkestein and a whole lot of other stuff.

Currently the buzz is something called Don't Rest Your Head or something like that - off course they have to "look through" it before I can see what I can do with it and off course WW's Promethean, which they want me to run "pure" unlike my version of Hunter...

We still use d20 - Modern and True20 - and someday soon (when I finally decide on a setting) D&D.

*shrug* IME for some folks it's about discovering different ways of having the kind of experiences they want from gaming.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: MelinglorSo, y'know, it's just possible that people who haven't heard of obscure shit might in some cases be missing out on something they'd enjoy.

It's also just possible that adherents of indy games have trouble taking no for an answer. It's awesome to make someone aware of a game they might like, but fricking annoying not to take a hint and stop trying when they indicate they're not interested...

Seanchai

Quote from: RPGPunditIts a perfectly simple question: are you afraid of answering it?

Not at all.  I think the record of my posts on the topic since February 2007 speak quite clearly to the matter.  However, my opinion on D&D has little or no bearing on this discussion.  You and Settembrini trying to back me into a corner over things I haven't stated is pathetic and makes me even less inclined to respond with a straight answer to an off-topic derail.  Your starting a drama thread about an imaginary war is even more pathetic.  Really -- praising ignorance as a virtue.  Aren't you embarrassed?

!i!