I am interested in chase mechanics.  Chases figure prominently in books and movies and but pretty rarely in RPGs in my experience, likely because supporting mechanics are rare and the length of chases often make using a mat impractical.  I've looked at a few and so far my standout favorite is Hot Pursuit by Adamant.  It's 3E compatible, cinematic, and simplifies position down to range intervals.  I think it's really slick.

If anyone else has a chase system they like I'd love to hear about it.

If you treat it as an encounter instead of a mini game or subsystem, then you already have all the tool you need to run. For a better explanation of that, I deffer to TheAngryGM, both in brief and in full.

Quote from: https://theangrygm.com/ask-angry-mailbag/If you want to make a chase encounter more dynamic, that stuff I just said is the second thing you have to remember. The first thing has to do with how you describe the encounter. Because, the fact is, you can't build a dynamic chase encounter in D&D. Because chases aren't very dynamic in tabletop games.

Picture a monster chasing a hero in your head. You'll probably see the two of them running full tilt, one trying to keep ahead, the other trying to catch up. And the outcome depends entirely on the interplay between the participants' speeds and endurances. And while there is some strategy involved, the challenge comes down to who can pace themselves better. And once both sides enact their pacing strategy, there really aren't many good reasons for either side to change it. No change, no dynamism. It's just rolling dice to see who picked the right strategy.

Now, you COULD build a push-your-luck style minigame about pacing yourself in a chase if you wanted to. But that's a bad approach. As a general rule, you want to avoid building around execution challenges in TTRPGs. And if the situation isn't terribly dynamic by its nature, adding game mechanics to make it more dynamic is actually anathema to role-playing. Because all the important decisions happen in the layer of the games' mechanics. Not the games' fiction.

What you need to do is change the way you see the situation to begin with. It can't be a chase; chases suck. And it can't happen in a void; conflicts play out on battlefields. Instead, imagine someone trying to EVADE a group of PURSUERS through the back-alleys of the City of Santiem. Or through the wilds of Fangwald Forest. What do you see now?

Looks more dynamic, right? Now, at the very least, you – the GM – can just role-play the escapee and try to get away. Especially if you strongly visualize the scene. Outrunning your pursuers is less important. Now it's about delaying them or distracting them so you can break the line of sight or making sudden changes they can't keep up with or trying to go somewhere they can't. You can implement different strategies and use the environment to your advantage. And that means the conflict will change as it plays out.

How to Build F$&%ing Awesome Encounters!

Quote from: Wisithir on June 09, 2024, 04:55:07 AMIf you treat it as an encounter instead of a mini game or subsystem, then you already have all the tool you need to run. For a better explanation of that, I deffer to TheAngryGM, both in brief and in full.

I disagree with this advice in general, "run it like an encounter" seems like very nebulas advice.

I'm not for contrived or overly rigid skill minigames, but some sort of structure or procedure in this case makes logical sense, otherwise it's just GM fiat with extra dice theatrics, unless both the player and GM have a very good sense of the spacial layout of a location.

and chases are generally pretty spontaneous events, having a proper procedure for this happening makes logical sense, in the same way I'd never run a Dungeon Crawl or Hex Crawl as an "encounter" been there done that, it's called 3.5/5th edition exploration mechanics, and they are nonexistent or blow.

If memory serves, Savage Worlds has a decent chase mechanic. At any rate, I remember it has a "running die" for every character, which helps to minimize the "everyone moves 30 ft per round" issue. CoC 7th edition has a quite elaborate chase minigame which I haven't played but seems to be well regarded.

I had a custom chase mechanic I wrote up for my Dragon Warriors campaign. Sadly, I don't seem to still have it, but I remember I assigned every character a "chase score" based on their movement rate and an average of their strength and agility scores (that game has no dex or con), and then used it as a modifier for opposed rolls, with every chase round determining if the pursuer closed or the fleeing party pulled away.

A couple general thoughts on chases: 1. I think they work much better in theater of the mind than they do on a grid. grid movement always feels kind of robotic, and a battlemap is always going to be too small, and usually too bland to make a dynamic chase. 2. If you want chases to be a thing in your game, eliminate the attack of opportunity for fleeing from combat. Every edition of D&D makes it harder than it should be to run away from a fight, and I think that's done because the game has never had decent chase mechanics.

For me, the Call of Cthluhu 7ed chase rules are the best. I've modified them to use in my home brew Castle and Crusades game, CoC / Delta Green, and even Traveller.

It is very fluid, and theater of the mind, and gets away from 30 yards v 25 yards v .... systems.

The basis of it is, make a con save/check, modify your movement by the result, and you end up getting 1, 2 , maybe 3 movement points. The DM lays out the chase with a series of points (can be a simple straight line, can be a a matrix of points with different branches and connections. Some might be a simple point, others may have different skill checks associated with them (a des check to move through a jumble of trash cans, a Str check to force open a door, a climb check to get over a fence etc). It takes 1 move point to move to a different point on the chase, one to attempt a skill, a point to recover from a fail, etc. If the chasers get to the same point as the target before it can leave (or have a skill or something that can stop it) the chase ends (for now) and it becomes a standard encounter. If the rabbit makes it to the end and no one can get to the final spot to stop it, it escapes. Also, if they get to the end of the chase, and catch up, but can't stop it, then just add more points and keep going.

If it is a more complex chase, with branches and different routs to get to the end I'll allow skill checks to navigate, notice a short cut etc, and of course, the target can makes checks to try and hide or misdirect the chasers etc.

I've had a Traveller session that they were helping bounty hunters follow the target, the targe splits into 3 groups, they chase 2 groups and have their drone follow the 3rd, the chase goes through allies, crowds etc, has one fight where they catch one target that was slower than the others, play cat and mouse with another until they surround him and he can't run, make nav checks to get ahead of the one being followed by the drone, and call in the full bounty hunter team to catch him, and then avoid the cops to get their bounties back to the ship to without all of them getting arrested. All of that using the CoC method but with Traveller mechanics.

Haven't had a chance to try it out myself yet, but I think the D8 Chase System looks fun.

Quote from: Wisithir on June 09, 2024, 04:55:07 AMIf you treat it as an encounter instead of a mini game or subsystem, then you already have all the tool you need to run. For a better explanation of that, I deffer to TheAngryGM, both in brief and in full.

I've done this in the past, and it actually worked well.  I have fond memories of a chase involving a turnip wagon, 200 bandits, and eventually a cliff.  Not bad for something done on the fly.  The downside is that I had to decide everything that happened rather then relying on a mechanic, which made the game less interesting from my POV and was more work to boot.  I'd like some tools to make the process more fun.

Quote from: ForgottenF on June 09, 2024, 05:14:19 PMIf memory serves, Savage Worlds has a decent chase mechanic. At any rate, I remember it has a "running die" for every character, which helps to minimize the "everyone moves 30 ft per round" issue. CoC 7th edition has a quite elaborate chase minigame which I haven't played but seems to be well regarded.

I had a custom chase mechanic I wrote up for my Dragon Warriors campaign. Sadly, I don't seem to still have it, but I remember I assigned every character a "chase score" based on their movement rate and an average of their strength and agility scores (that game has no dex or con), and then used it as a modifier for opposed rolls, with every chase round determining if the pursuer closed or the fleeing party pulled away.

A couple general thoughts on chases: 1. I think they work much better in theater of the mind than they do on a grid. grid movement always feels kind of robotic, and a battlemap is always going to be too small, and usually too bland to make a dynamic chase. 2. If you want chases to be a thing in your game, eliminate the attack of opportunity for fleeing from combat. Every edition of D&D makes it harder than it should be to run away from a fight, and I think that's done because the game has never had decent chase mechanics.

Thanks, I will check this out.  I agree that it needs to be theater of the mind.  On a mat of practical size I'd be redrawing everything every round.  Way too much work

Quote from: Lurker on June 09, 2024, 08:30:55 PMFor me, the Call of Cthluhu 7ed chase rules are the best. I've modified them to use in my home brew Castle and Crusades game, CoC / Delta Green, and even Traveller.

It is very fluid, and theater of the mind, and gets away from 30 yards v 25 yards v .... systems.

The basis of it is, make a con save/check, modify your movement by the result, and you end up getting 1, 2 , maybe 3 movement points. The DM lays out the chase with a series of points (can be a simple straight line, can be a a matrix of points with different branches and connections. Some might be a simple point, others may have different skill checks associated with them (a des check to move through a jumble of trash cans, a Str check to force open a door, a climb check to get over a fence etc). It takes 1 move point to move to a different point on the chase, one to attempt a skill, a point to recover from a fail, etc. If the chasers get to the same point as the target before it can leave (or have a skill or something that can stop it) the chase ends (for now) and it becomes a standard encounter. If the rabbit makes it to the end and no one can get to the final spot to stop it, it escapes. Also, if they get to the end of the chase, and catch up, but can't stop it, then just add more points and keep going.

If it is a more complex chase, with branches and different routs to get to the end I'll allow skill checks to navigate, notice a short cut etc, and of course, the target can makes checks to try and hide or misdirect the chasers etc.

I've had a Traveller session that they were helping bounty hunters follow the target, the targe splits into 3 groups, they chase 2 groups and have their drone follow the 3rd, the chase goes through allies, crowds etc, has one fight where they catch one target that was slower than the others, play cat and mouse with another until they surround him and he can't run, make nav checks to get ahead of the one being followed by the drone, and call in the full bounty hunter team to catch him, and then avoid the cops to get their bounties back to the ship to without all of them getting arrested. All of that using the CoC method but with Traveller mechanics.

Thanks.  That sounds pretty close to what I want but probably a little bit too abstracted.  I'll check it out to see what I can borrow.

If I had to choose one RPG system for a chase scene, it would be Wushu Open since the game mechanics literally ask you to think cinematically with added details.  Even things like camera angles, parkour moves, dramatic lighting, and environmental details, can add to the player's dice pool.  It's a cool system, but it is not for the 'I look up from my phone and roll a die' crowd.

Quote from: Mishihari on June 10, 2024, 02:44:24 PM

Quote from: Lurker on June 09, 2024, 08:30:55 PMFor me, the Call of Cthluhu 7ed chase rules are the best. I've modified them to use in my home brew Castle and Crusades game, CoC / Delta Green, and even Traveller.

It is very fluid, and theater of the mind, and gets away from 30 yards v 25 yards v .... systems.

The basis of it is, make a con save/check, modify your movement by the result, and you end up getting 1, 2 , maybe 3 movement points. The DM lays out the chase with a series of points (can be a simple straight line, can be a a matrix of points with different branches and connections. Some might be a simple point, others may have different skill checks associated with them (a des check to move through a jumble of trash cans, a Str check to force open a door, a climb check to get over a fence etc). It takes 1 move point to move to a different point on the chase, one to attempt a skill, a point to recover from a fail, etc. If the chasers get to the same point as the target before it can leave (or have a skill or something that can stop it) the chase ends (for now) and it becomes a standard encounter. If the rabbit makes it to the end and no one can get to the final spot to stop it, it escapes. Also, if they get to the end of the chase, and catch up, but can't stop it, then just add more points and keep going.

If it is a more complex chase, with branches and different routs to get to the end I'll allow skill checks to navigate, notice a short cut etc, and of course, the target can makes checks to try and hide or misdirect the chasers etc.

I've had a Traveller session that they were helping bounty hunters follow the target, the targe splits into 3 groups, they chase 2 groups and have their drone follow the 3rd, the chase goes through allies, crowds etc, has one fight where they catch one target that was slower than the others, play cat and mouse with another until they surround him and he can't run, make nav checks to get ahead of the one being followed by the drone, and call in the full bounty hunter team to catch him, and then avoid the cops to get their bounties back to the ship to without all of them getting arrested. All of that using the CoC method but with Traveller mechanics.

Thanks.  That sounds pretty close to what I want but probably a little bit too abstracted.  I'll check it out to see what I can borrow.

Glad it helped, and at least gets you thinking on it. I will say it took me a while to wrap my head around it and I thought it would be clunky etc when I read the rules and did a 'solo walk through' of them. Once I figured them out and got used to them they started to shine.