Quote from: xech;747796The difference in gameplay is due to differences in combat mechanics (that the fighter class can take advantage of) and not due to the fact that you as a player can decide different character actions independently from mechanics as OG seems to be suggesting as a valid way of playing out.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;747799That's not what we're talking about.  We're not talking about general mechanics.  We're talking about mechanical options within classes themselves to make them stand out from one another.  And what OG and I are saying, is that you don't have to have unique mechanical options for a class to have that class be very different in how it actually plays out from another PC of the same class.  That's up to you, as the player.  The AD&D fighter is mechanically identical to every other AD&D fighter, but they do not play the exact same way in the game unless you play them that way.

Quote from: xech;747800I do not agree. You are arguing semantics when in fact we are not. The OP asks a question of substance: is magic tree party enough to make you happy or do you need support of mechanics. It does not actually matter if different mechanics are explicitly within the class itself or a system that the class is specifically designed to excel at and take advantage of (combat for fighters).

Quote from: Sacrosanct;747801wait, what?  I think you need to go back and read the OP, because OHT is very clear he's talking about mechanical option choices within the class itself, specifically around char gen and advancement.

I'm not arguing semantics.  I'm arguing directly to the point of the topic.  You do not, in fact need to have unique mechanical options within a character class in order to play two PCs of the same class differently or unique.  This is not subjective; it's objective as evidenced by the large number of people who have done just that.

Quote from: Sommerjon;747802Who gives a shit about need, want works fine.

Quote from: One Horse Town;747722How much flexibility is just right for you in generating characters?

Are you ok with 2 fighters being almost identical mechanically or do you prefer the option to make an almost infinite amount of different fighters?

Are mechanics important in differentiating between characters of the same sort?

What if your choice of classes is so large that in effect, your chances of playing the same character twice are next to zero even if there is little difference between members of the same class. Would that suite you if you like greater flexibility normally?

Quote from: One Horse Town;7478071) Fighter with mechanical differentials baked into the class for the player to choose as he likes

versus

2) Hoplite, Gladiator, Skirmisher, Legionnaire, etc with a set suite of abilities that are specialties already baked into the class.

Quote from: xech;747803Ok, what is the difference if a class offers the option of different mechanics in the class itself or another system that the class is specifically tailored for it (combat in our case)? If it were not for combat mechanics your answer would have been totally different regarding how you consider fighter class characters. This is not something you made clear in your post when in fact you should have for us to understand how and why you feel about the OP matter.
The OP asks if mechanics are important to roleplaying choices and specifically the fighter archetype, the archetype that is mundane. But for you Sacrosant the mechanics are in fact in combat for fighters and by the way you answered you still need mechanic support to enjoy the fighter class.

Quote from: xech;747803whargarbl!

Quote from: Old Geezer;747776If character generation takes more than 15 minutes, I'm not interested.  "Options" exist in the players' minds, not on paper.  I've seen more creativity with personalities in OD&D and Fantasy Trip than in far more complex systems.

And how the character plays should be determined by the player, not the character.  Want your character to be a badass?  Play her like a badass and dare the risks.

Quote from: One Horse Town;747807I agree, which was why i started the thread.

I'll put you down as a 'want mechanical differences within class' then.

Also, to be clear i mentioned fighter as an example rather than strictly focus on them solely, but they are a good example.

To expand that example, would people prefer a Fighter class with mechanical doo-dads withing that class or say, 12 classes that might be described as 'fighty' but have their own strictly unchangeable suite of abilities.

1) Fighter with mechanical differentials baked into the class for the player to choose as he likes

versus

2) Hoplite, Gladiator, Skirmisher, Legionnaire, etc with a set suite of abilities that are specialties already baked into the class.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;747812OHT was talking about mechanical choices within the class itself.  Outside mechanics are irrelevant, and I'm not sure why you keep getting hung up on that.  The point OG and myself were responding to was the implication that you have to have unique mechanical choices within a particular class or all of those classes play exactly the same.  That statement is outright untrue, as OG and I have pointed out.  

Not sure how much more clear I can be on this.

Quote from: flyingmice;747808Who really cares what I think? What I think is entirely immaterial to what is best for any given game except one designed by me.

-clash