Quote from: richaje;1090700Hi all -

Creative Director of Chaosium here.

The big influence on this book is Sinclair Lewis rather than the politics of the early 21st century. It is at least in part a mash-up of Lovecraft's (ghost-written for Bishop) story "The Mound" with Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here," the strange overlap of groups like the Silver Shirts with occult groups like the I Am movement, plus loads of other historical and literary elements of the 1930s. The National Union for Social Justice was, as you know, a real historical political movement founded by Rev. Coughlin - which was anti-communist AND anti-capitalist. The Forgotten Men actually comes from a speech of FDR (actually the concept is older, but FDR re-popularized the idea).  In short, the adventure is not intended as a parable for 21st century politics any more than Masks of Nyarlahothep is intended to be - it is perhaps easier to say that The Forgotten Men can represent whatever "populist" movement YOU find threatening, since as we know everyone likes "the right kind" of populism (whatever that is) and dislikes the "wrong kind" (again whatever that is).

I'll third the forum thanks for giving your input, and responding classily.

Personally I think we can put this one to bed.

Quote from: S'mon;1090773I'll third the forum thanks for giving your input, and responding classily.

Personally I think we can put this one to bed.

I'll fourth it, though I was humming "Fools Rush In" and Don Quixote's theme as I read it.  This forum really is outlaw country.  Not a bad thing, but a poster who denies charges of SJWism is in for a grilling.

And no the thread isn't done, because we haven't had a chance to decide to examine the evidence behind the charge.  Because a corp spokesman saying "nothing to these allegations" doesn't particularly refute the charge.

Quote from: Crawford Tillinghast;1090409Also I had never heard of "National Union for Social Justice" but I find the name of the outfit just plain hilarious.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1090674That is hilarious!

Quote from: richaje;1090700Hi all -

The National Union for Social Justice was, as you know, a real historical political movement founded by Rev. Coughlin - which was anti-communist AND anti-capitalist.

Yes I do.  That is what is so funny - comparing the modern SJW movement with a group founded by Coughlin!

Quote from: Gagarth;1090430From Reading it it is obvious they are using the League of Forgotten Men as an allegory for Trump and his supporters.

Quote from: Crawford Tillinghast;1090409I'm not seeing anything particularly problematic with this so far.  I suppose if you look hard enough, you can see anti-Trumpism in the shadows.  Is the SJW stuff further in?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1090674Chaosium spouting SJW idiocy is very believable, but we need proof.

No need to look hard. It's obvious if you're familiar with the liberal narrative that the USA 2019 is just like Germany in the 1930s.

Quote from: richaje;1090700Hi all -

Creative Director of Chaosium here.

The big influence on this book is Sinclair Lewis rather than the politics of the early 21st century. It is at least in part a mash-up of Lovecraft's (ghost-written for Bishop) story "The Mound" with Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here,"...it is perhaps easier to say that The Forgotten Men can represent whatever "populist" movement YOU find threatening, since as we know everyone likes "the right kind" of populism (whatever that is) and dislikes the "wrong kind" (again whatever that is).

And I agree.  The point I am making is that everyone, everyone, occasionally sees "what that really means."  At You Know Where they see any attempt to clarify a statement as concern trolling or sea lioning.  A few years back, someone posted how they hated Tolkien.  He (the poster) was firmly anti-aristocratic, and saw Lord of the Rings as a metaphor for the passing of the aristocracy (elves) to be replaced by rule by commoners (humans).  Not an invalid interpretation, but not a common one either.  Here Gargath seems to be saying that a Huey Long homage is really a Trump metaphor.  Like SpinachChat, I too am waiting for a more concrete example.

Quote from: Crawford Tillinghast;1090827And I agree.  The point I am making is that everyone, everyone, occasionally sees "what that really means."  At You Know Where they see any attempt to clarify a statement as concern trolling or sea lioning.  A few years back, someone posted how they hated Tolkien.  He (the poster) was firmly anti-aristocratic, and saw Lord of the Rings as a metaphor for the passing of the aristocracy (elves) to be replaced by rule by commoners (humans).  Not an invalid interpretation, but not a common one either.  Here Gargath seems to be saying that a Huey Long homage is really a Trump metaphor.  Like SpinachChat, I too am waiting for a more concrete example.

I'm sure it is easy to read the Sinclair Lewis elements as being an anti-Trump (or anti-Le Pen, or whoever else you want to put up) swipe if you are so inclined to do so (maybe you hate Trump or maybe you hate the folk that hate Trump). My suggestion is to just enjoy the campaign, have a rollicking romp through literary tropes and historical themes of the 1930s and let it be about whatever your players make it.

Quote from: richaje;1090839I'm sure it is easy to read the Sinclair Lewis elements as being an anti-Trump (or anti-Le Pen, or whoever else you want to put up) swipe if you are so inclined to do so (maybe you hate Trump or maybe you hate the folk that hate Trump). My suggestion is to just enjoy the campaign, have a rollicking romp through literary tropes and historical themes of the 1930s and let it be about whatever your players make it.

Goddamn, but its refreshing to hear such common sense being spoken on the internet.

Quote from: richaje;1090700Hi all -

Creative Director of Chaosium here.

The big influence on this book is Sinclair Lewis rather than the politics of the early 21st century. It is at least in part a mash-up of Lovecraft's (ghost-written for Bishop) story "The Mound" with Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here," the strange overlap of groups like the Silver Shirts with occult groups like the I Am movement, plus loads of other historical and literary elements of the 1930s. The National Union for Social Justice was, as you know, a real historical political movement founded by Rev. Coughlin - which was anti-communist AND anti-capitalist. The Forgotten Men actually comes from a speech of FDR (actually the concept is older, but FDR re-popularized the idea).  In short, the adventure is not intended as a parable for 21st century politics any more than Masks of Nyarlahothep is intended to be - it is perhaps easier to say that The Forgotten Men can represent whatever "populist" movement YOU find threatening, since as we know everyone likes "the right kind" of populism (whatever that is) and dislikes the "wrong kind" (again whatever that is).

This might hold water if the previous New Chaosium Call of Cthulhu publications and statements from your staff about prior editions of campaigns being racist did not show exactly what direction the company is heading.

Quote from: jeff37923;1090450Well, if your claim is both true and able to be verified, it is something to be condemned since most people game for fun and not for pursuing a political or social agenda.

Why should they be condemned? It is their company they can produce whatever they want but potential purchasers should be made aware of it and maybe New Chaosium should be more upfront about it like the other activist game companies.

Quote from: Gagarth;1090864This might hold water if the previous Call of Cthulhu publications and statements from your staff about prior editions of campaigns being racist did not show exactly what direction the company is heading.

Individual writers and editors are perfectly entitled to believe and say that. Chaosium has always been an ideologically diverse group from gun-toting hippie shamans to Mormon elders, libertarian lawyers, and chain-smoking French communists. My goal as Creative Director is to produce stuff that I think makes cool and interesting stories. Some of that may lean left, some of that may lean right, some of that may lean upside down and inside out.

Quote from: richaje;1090867Individual writers and editors are perfectly entitled to believe and say that. Chaosium has always been an ideologically diverse group from gun-toting hippie shamans to Mormon elders, libertarian lawyers, and chain-smoking French communists. My goal as Creative Director is to produce stuff that I think makes cool and interesting stories. Some of that may lean left, some of that may lean right, some of that may lean upside down and inside out.

   Apparently I've mistaken the preponderance of progressive thought among recent creatives for official company policy; my apologies for overgeneralizing. I'm thoroughly sick of Lovecraft and never had any interest in Runequest, but I look forward to seeing what you'll do with Pendragon.

A simple Google search of "Windrip and Trump" will show that it's a pretty common idea on the left that Sinclair Lewis predicted Trump when he wrote Windrip.  There are articles on the linkage in Time Magazine and the New York Times.  It's even in the book's Wikipedia page.

However, I don't see how that proves that a fictional take on Coughlin equals a fictional take on Trump.  There would have to be elements in the campaign that went beyond Coughlin and Windrip to prove the authors are making a modern political statement.

Quote from: Gagarth;1090865Why should they be condemned? It is their company they can produce whatever they want but potential purchasers should be made aware of it and maybe New Chaosium should be more upfront about it like the other activist game companies.

Since you obviously didn't read my statement that you quoted the first time, here it is again. I'll even bold the relevant part.

Quote from: jeff37923;1090450Well, if your claim is both true and able to be verified, it is something to be condemned since most people game for fun and not for pursuing a political or social agenda.

EDIT: I will just add this. You were wrong and saw something there that wasn't. If you man up and admit your mistake, it'll be a lot easier for you in the long run.

Quote from: Gagarth;1090430As for  1930's baddies do you really think that new Chaosium would put out a campaign were CPUSA  agitators are the bad guys?

  I was a Cultist for the FBI?

Quote from: Gagarth;1090430As for  1930's baddies do you really think that new Chaosium would put out a campaign were CPUSA  agitators are the bad guys?

Dude, it's Cthulu.  Any mortal enemies you face are ultimately irrelevant.

Sounds like Chaosium needs another financial crisis to slap the stupid out of their mouth.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1090886However, I don't see how that proves that a fictional take on Coughlin equals a fictional take on Trump.  There would have to be elements in the campaign that went beyond Coughlin and Windrip to prove the authors are making a modern political statement.

It's being published in 2019, not 2014, and since 2016, the MSM has been inundated with "It's the 30s again! Trump is Hitler!" so the sudden appearance of "CoC: Rise of Nazis in America" isn't too hard to figure out. Especially since the rise of Communism in the USA, not Nazism, was a major concern during the Great Depression.

But guess what Chaosium publishes exactly when the Left is praising Communism and declaring anything right of Mao to be Nazism???

Do we have every fact about the product? Nope, but connecting dots isn't rocket science. More importantly, let's not forget Chaosium has no monopoly on Lovecraftian horror, nor control of D100. It's VERY easy to vote with your wallet elsewhere.

Silent Legions by Sine Nomine gives me all the Cthulhu, but none of Chaosium's political bullshit.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091008Sounds like Chaosium needs another financial crisis to slap the stupid out of their mouth.



It's being published in 2019, not 2014, and since 2016, the MSM has been inundated with "It's the 30s again! Trump is Hitler!" so the sudden appearance of "CoC: Rise of Nazis in America" isn't too hard to figure out. Especially since the rise of Communism in the USA, not Nazism, was a major concern during the Great Depression.

But guess what Chaosium publishes exactly when the Left is praising Communism and declaring anything right of Mao to be Nazism???

Do we have every fact about the product? Nope, but connecting dots isn't rocket science. More importantly, let's not forget Chaosium has no monopoly on Lovecraftian horror, nor control of D100. It's VERY easy to vote with your wallet elsewhere.

Silent Legions by Sine Nomine gives me all the Cthulhu, but none of Chaosium's political bullshit.

A book we commissioned a year before the 2016 election managed to predict the media mood after the election? I am ever impressed with our writer's far-seeing perspicacity!

Joking aside, I think the Cthulhu for President 2016 campaign better reflects our "political bullshit": https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-9zhx02uo/products/573/images/2173/CHA0091_-_Cthulhu_for_President_Front_Cover__54717.1468239059.500.659.jpg?c=2