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Did anyone here play it?  Did you give it a long go or just play a one-off session or two?  It was I recall just BRP, right?

Quote from: thedungeondelver;684803Did anyone here play it?  Did you give it a long go or just play a one-off session or two?  It was I recall just BRP, right?

I haven't played, but my brother did, as he had a big love of Elfquest.  

Yes, it's mostly just BRP.  Standard stats, slightly different array of skills, and magic points to power spells.  I've got a few copies at home.  It's not too hard to get your hands on it, really, and there were a few supplements with additional rules and background.

I have the boxed set but never played it as intended but I did use its bestiary. The big cat-snake monster (madcoil?) showed up in a few of our Stormbringer games as a chaos beast.

I played it some and liked it a lot. It's probably my second-favorite of the older BRP games, next to Stormbringer 1st edition.

What kind of magic system did ElfQuest use?  Something like the RQ system, or the one from Stormbringer (unlikely, I assume), or the one from Magic World?  Or was it its own thing?

(Wow... ElfQuest.  That whole thing -- comics, novels, and RPG -- seems so 1980s.)

Despite having been a huge ElfQuest fan (I remember waiting for the third and fourth TPBs to appear) the RPG never tempted me.
Not even the collector/completist in me. I don't know why.

And there was a time in my life when BRP (in the incarnations of AH's RQ3 and GW's Stormbringer HC) was among my favorite games.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;685954Despite having been a huge ElfQuest fan (I remember waiting for the third and fourth TPBs to appear) the RPG never tempted me.
Not even the collector/completist in me. I don't know why.

And there was a time in my life when BRP (in the incarnations of AH's RQ3 and GW's Stormbringer HC) was among my favorite games.

I remember reading a copy of the game when it first came out; a friend was complete ElfQuest fanatic and we were all dyed in the wool RQ and CoC players. My memory was of being appalled by just how over-complicated it was. If I remember correctly it had a whole lot of RQ3 mechanics in it just before RQ3 was released. Although we had been gearing up to play it as soon as we got it, we never even got round to rolling up PCs. Admittedly, I probably haven't looked at since some time in the 80s so maybe my view has mellowed.

There was that run of games from Superworld, ElfQuest and Ringworld and the whole RQ debacle which really soured me on Chaosium. We tried to play Superworld but it seemed to do everything worse than every other supers game out there. ElfQuest we pretended didn't exist. Ringworld, we got one session in before we found it basically unplayable. Looked lovely though.

Quote from: Akrasia;685906What kind of magic system did ElfQuest use?  Something like the RQ system, or the one from Stormbringer (unlikely, I assume), or the one from Magic World?  Or was it its own thing?

(Wow... ElfQuest.  That whole thing -- comics, novels, and RPG -- seems so 1980s.)

The magic system was essentially psychic powers, which (if I recall correctly) were rated on a percentile basis. They were closest in spirit to those from Magic World.

I raided them for the psychic power section in the big gold BRP book.

Quote from: deleriad;686019I remember reading a copy of the game when it first came out; a friend was complete ElfQuest fanatic and we were all dyed in the wool RQ and CoC players. My memory was of being appalled by just how over-complicated it was. If I remember correctly it had a whole lot of RQ3 mechanics in it just before RQ3 was released. Although we had been gearing up to play it as soon as we got it, we never even got round to rolling up PCs. Admittedly, I probably haven't looked at since some time in the 80s so maybe my view has mellowed.

You might take another look at it. It's actually about the same level of complexity as Elric!, much less crunchy than RQ2 or 3. It, like Elric!, are in the sweet spot for me along the complexity|simplicity scale.

Quote from: deleriad;686019There was that run of games from Superworld, ElfQuest and Ringworld and the whole RQ debacle which really soured me on Chaosium. We tried to play Superworld but it seemed to do everything worse than every other supers game out there. ElfQuest we pretended didn't exist. Ringworld, we got one session in before we found it basically unplayable. Looked lovely though.

I'm not much of a fan of RQ3, as well. I agree that Superworld was unplayable without the copious errata, and in my opinion, Ringworld's complexity was its biggest downfall. Plus, honestly, it was a nightmare to GM, considering the level of power available to player characters at the get-go.

To tie the thread back to Elfquest...

When we were playing Ringworld, one of the players caused untold misery for the rest of us by playing a dolphin character. It didn't occur to the GM to just say "no." So we were constantly having to work our way around the transportation issues caused by his character.

Then when we pulled out Elfquest, we had been playing a while and the player's elf character died. He looked at the Sea Elves sourcebook with hopes that he could create one of those, complete with dolphin mount, and the GM finally said "no!"

Quote from: jdurall;686084Then when we pulled out Elfquest, we had been playing a while and the player's elf character died. He looked at the Sea Elves sourcebook with hopes that he could create one of those, complete with dolphin mount, and the GM finally said "no!"

Every group must have a dolphin boy. Ringworld fell to pieces on the back of the luck rules for us. One guy (Elfquest happen as it happens) managed to end up with POW 33. It was all downhill from there.

Just went digging for reviews of Elfquest and found Sandy Peterson's comments on rpggeek. My teenage self is feeling vindicated now. ;)

Quote from: deleriad;686108Just went digging for reviews of Elfquest and found Sandy Peterson's comments on rpggeek. My teenage self is feeling vindicated now. ;)

Do you have a link? I'd love to see that.

Quote from: jdurall;686121Do you have a link? I'd love to see that.

Here you go. http://rpggeek.com/thread/687987/what-went-wrong-with-elfquest-one-of-the-authors-c (http://rpggeek.com/thread/687987/what-went-wrong-with-elfquest-one-of-the-authors-c)

This is mind boggling:

QuoteWe met with them, and it took a while to get Wendy on board. She REALLY didn't "get" roleplaying. When she heard that gamers would be allowed to change her storylines, and interact with, or even marry or kill her characters, she reacted very negatively. We explained the situation and eventually she understood. I think. Richard certainly got the picture from early on, and he helped soothe her. Now I look back and it is pretty funny. I suspect what was happening was that she was looking at roleplaying as if it was a film version or something of her works, and she wanted it to remain pristine.

...all of the stuff I'd read about the Pinis (and I read a lot as I was an insufferable EQ geek when I was a kid) implied that they were really uber-nerds (in a good way), Mrs. Pini did cosplay, for example.  She didn't understand RPGs?  Wow, that kind of floors me.  I mean, joe-person-off-the-street I could understand, but them?

Quote from: thedungeondelver;686186This is mind boggling:

...all of the stuff I'd read about the Pinis (and I read a lot as I was an insufferable EQ geek when I was a kid) implied that they were really uber-nerds (in a good way), Mrs. Pini did cosplay, for example.  She didn't understand RPGs?  Wow, that kind of floors me.  I mean, joe-person-off-the-street I could understand, but them?

Well, this was 30 years ago.  Rumor has it that J. K. Rowling reacted in a similar way to suggestions for a Harry Potter RPG.

(This reminds me.  The Pinis showed up as judges on a recent episode of 'Heroes of Cosplay'.)

Quote from: thedungeondelver;686186This is mind boggling:



...all of the stuff I'd read about the Pinis (and I read a lot as I was an insufferable EQ geek when I was a kid) implied that they were really uber-nerds (in a good way), Mrs. Pini did cosplay, for example.  She didn't understand RPGs?  Wow, that kind of floors me.  I mean, joe-person-off-the-street I could understand, but them?

IMO Power Word: Paycheck was not cast properly.

(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-9m6F5wh/0/O/i-9m6F5wh.jpg)

At the same time, they got the licence...what else did they want from the author? A kiss on the cheek?

Quote from: Rincewind1;686222At the same time, they got the licence...what else did they want from the author? A kiss on the cheek?

Timely! :D

Quote from: Akrasia;685906What kind of magic system did ElfQuest use?  Something like the RQ system, or the one from Stormbringer (unlikely, I assume), or the one from Magic World?  Or was it its own thing?

Well, each magic ability was it's own skill, and you had to both roll under your skill and then spend magic points to do something.  The magic is pretty weak compared to what you see in the original comic - for instance, to start a fire costs one magic point per 10% of chance of starting a fire... so if you really need a fire, that's 10 magic points.

Quote from: jdurall;686077The magic system was essentially psychic powers, which (if I recall correctly) were rated on a percentile basis. They were closest in spirit to those from Magic World.

I raided them for the psychic power section in the big gold BRP book.

Quote from: jcfiala;686265Well, each magic ability was it's own skill, and you had to both roll under your skill and then spend magic points to do something.  The magic is pretty weak compared to what you see in the original comic - for instance, to start a fire costs one magic point per 10% of chance of starting a fire... so if you really need a fire, that's 10 magic points.

Thanks for the replies, Gents. :)

Since I have (a few) copies of the BGBRP, it looks like there is nothing to be gained from EQ, at least system-wise.

Quote from: Akrasia;686318Thanks for the replies, Gents. :)

Since I have (a few) copies of the BGBRP, it looks like there is nothing to be gained from EQ, at least system-wise.

My faint recollection of the game (back when I was...psh...14?) is that there's not much setting wise either.  I know how crazy that sounds given the game's thrust but it really was just sort of...there.

I'll always remember Wendy Pini as the Red Sonja model that accompanied Frank Thorne to comic cons for years.

(http://www.elfquest.com/social/file/pic/photo/2010/08/Sanjuro-pinisonja1_500.jpg)

Quote from: jcfiala;686188Well, this was 30 years ago.  Rumor has it that J. K. Rowling reacted in a similar way to suggestions for a Harry Potter RPG.

(This reminds me.  The Pinis showed up as judges on a recent episode of 'Heroes of Cosplay'.)

Yeah, heard the same thing about JK Rowling. She seemed to think RPGs were a method of endorsing fan fiction.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;686338My faint recollection of the game (back when I was...psh...14?) is that there's not much setting wise either.  I know how crazy that sounds given the game's thrust but it really was just sort of...there.

I think that's just a problem from the state of the comic at that time.  IIRC, all that had bee known was the original Holt (burned down), the troll kingdom (abandoned), the Sun Folk, the Go-Backs, the High Elves... they hadn't really explored much of the world at all, and apparently revealing more than that wasn't something the Pinis either wanted or were able to do.  In fact, it's my recollection that the Sea Elves expansion built off of that by just picking an area of the world that was far away from the main story and making stuff up, which perhaps should have been done in the original game.

IIRC ElfQuest predated RQ3. Anyways, I couldn't afford RQ3 at first so I bought and ran EQ. I liked it, a lot, and I wasn't a EQ geek, although I read the comics once I got the rpg and liked them.

If you have the BRP BGB you don't need EQ unless you are an EQ fan and want a BRP game tailored to the comics.

Never played Elfquest; I wasn't a big fan of the comics either. Don't remember why but something just didn't sit well with me about them.

Quote from: RPGPundit;687191Never played Elfquest; I wasn't a big fan of the comics either. Don't remember why but something just didn't sit well with me about them.

Looking back I don't know why I was so enamored of them.  In my defense, though, I was like..14.

Actually still play it. Not as often as BRP fantasy. We have evolved the world and ideas. Being of a diffetent mind set and new to gaming, I have seen dnd, champions etc are abstract war games. Nothing wrong with abstracts, but after playing BRP dervived games, dnd is weak sauce, too expensive to be worth it.

Quote from: sylvermoonkitten;687601Actually still play it. Not as often as BRP fantasy. We have evolved the world and ideas. Being of a diffetent mind set and new to gaming, I have seen dnd, champions etc are abstract war games. Nothing wrong with abstracts, but after playing BRP dervived games, dnd is weak sauce, too expensive to be worth it.

I understand calling D&D, especially the most recent edition, an abstraction from wargaming, but Champions? No more so than BRP

Well, Elfquest's style was very much intended to be Disney like.  The Pinis had always intended their characters and world for an animated treatment.  The free loving hippy psychic alien elves at war with brutal and hateful humanity.  It was all very much symbolic of the hippy movement seeing themselves as evolved and advanced beyond traditional society.  The trolls were industrious but also amoral and exploitive of the work of others.  Some of that might be what was off putting for people.

Really the first series was pretty strong and had some great characters and some real twists and turns.  The discovery of the elves of Blue Mountain and the realization that the real enemy was another elf.  The war with the Trolls that Two Edge engineered was truly gripping.  And the discovery of the truth of the Wolf Riders and other elves a suitable conclusion.  The later stuff has been a bit mixed.  All too often, entirely too "Family Circus" as it were.  Like many stories, the stuff after the end feels more like it belongs in appendix.  

There are good bits, the thousand odd years Cutter waits for the palace to reappear and return his family to him in Kings of the Broken Wheel, and every time Leetah has to remind herself that he is now the older and more experienced of the two of them.  There's one where an elf adopts an abandoned human baby and try as they might, as he grows he becomes alienated and finally leaves unable to interact on so many crucial levels with his adopted family.  There's the humans being more technologically advanced than the elves in the later material too which is an interesting change.

The newest material has been, ehhh..awkward I guess.  All too much the preachy back to nature hippy screed without the moments of brilliance, body horror, shock, and sorrow.

Let me.explain. in dnd and champions combat is a war game, a comparison of numbers. We do sword and board, Champions at least 1-5 is just a number check. Combat is not realistic. Even Marvel has combat. But for me, as in real combat, I wanna be able to defend not some dcv, I want to hit not some OCV.
In RQ, BRP even superworld which isnt as bad as some make it, and heck it spawnwd a novel series lol., that many make it to be. It does need work.
Guess we see things differently, and what do I know Im just a dumb girl gaming only 7 years.
I am.sure you are correct.
Take care

???

Champions is a bit math heavy but it does have active defenses.

Don't get out of joint about it.  RQ3's pretty math intensive itself.  Though really around here it was probably the snipe about D&D that drew some fire in your direction.  Folks around here are pretty fond of their D&D (said the D&D hater).  Expect some backlash if you go there.

Not knocking your preferences SMC, I'd personally rather have teeth pulled than make a character using Champions/Hero system, just dont see it's crunchieness as wargame-related (I also play wargames)

And over half the people I game with are girls, so that's no nevermind to me. :D

Quote from: David Johansen;687618???

Champions is a bit math heavy but it does have active defenses.

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1q4mdjvKAqNuvZz3-ABIuFBZniMBTxvxNw8B82PfJgGgxXN9Tyg)
"A bit".

Quote from: sylvermoonkitten;687616Let me.explain. in dnd and champions combat is a war game, a comparison of numbers. We do sword and board, Champions at least 1-5 is just a number check. Combat is not realistic.

If you get a chance, you might want to look over the marital arts expansions for Champions - they can get pretty interesting with the various options for attack and defense and how they change your to hit and attack scores.

That said, there's a fair bit of similarity between Champions OCV/DCV when compared to D20's Attack bonus vs AC.

Meh...Champions math is frequently simpler than GURPS math and I generally wouldn't consider GURPS math heavy.  But then I play Rolemaster Standard System and Chivalry and Sorcery and use GURPS Vehicles without a computer so I guess it's relative.

Champions is a very simple game at heart.  It gets drowned in the power modifiers too often and sadly as with GURPS 4e a clean build is a suboptimal build but that's really more an issue of being a mature game that's been added to for too many years.

But then I liked Champions 6e.

Yes seen Champs, and play it, if forced. Superworld can be seen as champs lite, with Role Playing. As for the martial systems for Hero, not too impressed. Might as well play Palladiums Ninjas and superspies, lol.
I think the wargame cruchiness is fine, if that is how you see things. We, I , dont. The Brp systems can be adapted by and to anything. Hubby has explained this is an old argument, but not for me.  
Hubby says most GMs are just followes of a published
Good GM add to the adventure.
Better GMs build worlds around an adventure.
Great GM known they can drop any adventure into anything.
Most GMs are mediocre at best, sadly. ( i.gmed only three yimes, my first was last year I ran Other Suns for Hubby bday , a brp horror, and a Nighlife game)
Most GMs and players are zombie following the herd, like zombies defending things with venom.
Unlikemost systems BRP derived can adapt just about anything.

but back to ElfQuest, the game world evolved. The Castle is gone taking many elves with it. Those left have a complete world, two moons. In iur world there us life on the moons, magic has exploded.
The Pini world is gone.
Finally, sorry for any typos etc, for some reason can expand the screen on phone till after I post, and well going vack is time consuming. Lol, with kids, grandkids, house, hubby and family, well...I think most you are smart enough to understand if not sympathize.

I dont if I posted here. Hubby is a grognard playing since 79. He has 1st and 2nd right Next to Brp, 3rd is bottom shelf stuff. Fourth we use as door stops or to hold windows open. Lol.
Dnd was.my first game. Then I went be a renfaire, a sca event, and dagohir. I asked the gm why I couldnt do shield blocks, parries etc. When I met hubby I didnt want to game, it bored me, He was running BRP heavily influenced by RQ3. I was hooked. It was what gaming should have been. We pull out dnd somtimes, esp eith newbies to group.
Then corrupt them to our version of Classic Fantasy by BRP.
But hubby even runs 1st Chivalry.and Sorcery. Many of our older players come down.from ohio and michigan and they are mostly from his old CoC and FasaTrek groups.
Most Dnders are zombies, and with affection I love teasing them. But the two main systems are pretty much weak tea, for me.

Quote from: sylvermoonkitten;687726As for the martial systems for Hero, not too impressed. Might as well play Palladiums Ninjas and superspies, lol.

ouch