Quote from: CRKrueger;760162Based on past performance, I don't think WotC applies the same rigour to it's rpg mechanics with regards to synergies and unintended consequences that it obviously does with Magic.

Magic: The Gathering veteran here. As much as I admire the brilliant things the design teams have done over time, The history of that game is ALL ABOUT unintended consequences. I can list dozens of recent examples (past four years) of serious oversights resulting in messed up metagames and certainly driving some newbies away. Yet the game thrives.

No denying the Magic team is more substantial than the D&D team, but D&D is supposed to be a fuzzier ruleset anyway, right? I'll certainly never forget the years of wailing over when D&D tried to be as rigorous as M:TG.

Quote from: Marleycat;760173The Starter Set is for just who it says, starters. Not beginners, they're actually 2 different groups of people.

Marley, I think I get where you are coming from but I don't think you are hearing me... but before I derail this thread more than I should politely have done so.

What is the difference between starter and beginner?

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;760184Marley, I think I get where you are coming from but I don't think you are hearing me... but before I derail this thread more than I should politely have done so.

What is the difference between starter and beginner?

Ok, a beginner is like me or my daughter. I went to a game because I was invited by my "besty" I didn't actually care about the game but I care about her. So I participated but with lots of hand holding for 3-4 sessions. Until I made the decision that it was fun and cool to spread my wings and make the game match my imagination.

A beginner goes in cold just off the game itself. No hand holding beyond what the game itself provides. Hand holding is a bad definition actually a better word and definition is FRAMEWORK.

Quote from: Marleycat;760188Ok, a beginner is like me or my daughter. I went to a game because I was invited by my "besty" I didn't actually care about the game but I care about her. So I participated but with lots of hand holding for 3-4 sessions. Until I made the decision that it was fun and cool to spread my wings and make the game match my imagination.

A beginner goes in cold just off the game itself. No hand holding beyond what the game itself provides. Hand holding is a bad definition actually a better word and definition is FRAMEWORK.

What? You didn't even address the "starter" in your difference between "starter and beginner". I think whatever the answer is in your mind, you are splitting serious hairs when it comes to the grand marketing plan of a multi million dollar corp. like WotC (and especially Hasbro).

Point blank, if you have heard of DnD, they would like you to buy every product they put the DnD logo on. I don't care if it is a lunch Box, lego rip off, or a starter set.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;760193What? You didn't even address the "starter" in your difference between "starter and beginner". I think whatever the answer is in your mind, you are splitting serious hairs when it comes to the grand marketing plan of a multi million dollar corp. like WotC (and especially Hasbro).

Point blank, if you have heard of DnD, they would like you to buy every product they put the DnD logo on. I don't care if it is a lunch Box, lego rip off, or a starter set.

What are you? My second paragraph meant STARTER unless you like to phone post piss off. I just didn't catch it in my edits. Now I completely understand why TTRP is dying I mean you're actually serious.... sad very sad.

Oh yeah sorry WotC touched you in a bad place boy. Grow up already. POINT BLANK.

You asked for an explanation so you are required to listen to my full and actual explanation without jumping to conclusions without it agreed? Or should I edit it to prove your overreaction?

Seriously just replace beginner with starter in the topic sentence and you will actually see my explanation just as you requested.

Quote from: Marleycat;760008No. Because you're literally complaining about an option. The starter set is including some options (backgrounds, traits, flaws, bonds...) on purpose as handholds for beginners. They flat out said as much already. I don't agree with it but I understand the why of it.

The starter set is including some options (backgrounds, traits, flaws, bonds...) on purpose as handholds for beginners.

That is golden. Pure wonder in a cup.

I agree. I think that there are people who need these types of markers or signposts to help them.  I like the quote above because it suggests to me that there are is a trend in gaming that accommodates those who find it difficult at times to roleplay.

MonsterSlayer, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why the hell won't you just pledge eternal allegiance to a game you haven't read and that isn't published yet?

If you wait until you actually play 5e to have an informed opinion, you won't ever be blessed as a true believer...and RPGPundit and his most holy priestess Marleycat will know the weakness of your soul.

Quote from: Marleycat;7600264e never made sense at least as a RPG. It's basically a boardgame.

Aw...how cute!

O

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;760198The starter set is including some options (backgrounds, traits, flaws, bonds...) on purpose as handholds for beginners.

That is golden. Pure wonder in a cup.

I agree. I think that there are people who need these types of markers or signposts to help them.  I like the quote above because it suggests to me that there are is a trend in gaming that accommodates those who find it difficult at times to roleplay.

Who knows? Do you?


Convienently you ignore the actual meaning of my post. I did say I actually disagree with the approach but my bad I figured you actually read the whole post? Rather then troll?

Quote from: Spinachcat;760199MonsterSlayer, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why the hell won't you just pledge eternal allegiance to a game you haven't read and that isn't published yet?

If you wait until you actually play 5e to have an informed opinion, you won't ever be blessed as a true believer...and RPGPundit and his most holy priestess Marleycat will know the weakness of your soul.




Aw...how cute!

Yep. Given it's better to ACTUALLY know the real rules before being a bitch about things that might not even be there or easily modified if you give a damn. If not just play other games. What none of you are getting is that I ALREADY have my primary games. 5e is basically an excuse to replace FantasyCraft for me and my players. If not no loss.

In otherwords it has me interested in Dnd again after 8-10 years of completely ignoring it.

Quote from: Marleycat;760197What are you? My second paragraph meant STARTER unless you like to phone post piss off. I just didn't catch it in my edits. Now I completely understand why TTRP is dying I mean you're actually serious.... sad very sad.

Oh yeah sorry WotC touched you in a bad place boy. Grow up already. POINT BLANK.

You asked for an explanation so you are required to listen to my full and actual explanation without jumping to conclusions without it agreed? Or should I edit it to prove your overreaction?

Seriously just replace beginner with starter in the topic sentence and you will actually see my explanation just as you requested.

Wow I'm pissed off?

I came to this thread because i was bored and I'm waiting for some deli ions cake to cool off.
I thought hey, I'm actually interested in the differences between the character sheet and the final play test.

I might actually buy the starter set because despite the lousy marketing, I might be interested in a new campaign and a look at the new rules.

But instead I'm derailed by arguments that:

A) this product isn't aimed at me and they don't want my $12 because I'm neither a starter or a beginner.
B) It is pointless to care about something that is going to change by the time the final product comes out

And all of this from someone that seems perfectly happy playing Fantasy Craft.

Excuse me for trying to reconcile all of your arguments for why we shouldn't be discussing 5e but I had nothing better to do but try to twist my brain like a pretzel.

carry on.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;760203Wow I'm pissed off?

I came to this thread because i was bored and I'm waiting for some deli ions cake to cool off.
I thought hey, I'm actually interested in the differences between the character sheet and the final play test.

I might actually buy the starter set because despite the lousy marketing, I might be interested in a new campaign and a look at the new rules.

But instead I'm derailed by arguments that:

A) this product isn't aimed at me and they don't want my $12 because I'm neither a starter or a beginner.
B) It is pointless to care about something that is going to change by the time the final product comes out

And all of this from someone that seems perfectly happy playing Fantasy Craft.

Excuse me for trying to reconcile all of your arguments for why we shouldn't be discussing 5e but I had nothing better to do but try to twist my brain like a pretzel.

carry on.

Nope not pissed. You don't actually want to understand. If you'd like me to replace that one word I will. But like most you're trolling because we have jack for real information. But you're actually right I am bored because football season isn't until August. But this entertains me somewhat....at least a little.

Keep up I am looking at 5e as my Dnd fix not my actual primary game or passion.
I'm a casual gamer but will buy product of games I play. Get it? PLAY. My actual passions are baseball and football. I get serious there.

My moniker isn't a joke by the way.

Quote from: Marleycat;760205Nope not pissed. You don't actually want to understand. If you'd like me to replace that one word I will. But like most you're trolling because we have jack for real information. But you're actually right I am bored because football season isn't until August. But this entertains me somewhat....at least a little.

Keep up I am looking at 5e as my Dnd fix not my actual primary game or passion.
I'm a casual gamer but will buy product of games I play. Get it? PLAY. My actual passions are baseball and football. I get serious there.
I

So the very first post I make in this thread you agree with. But then you make the "bad wrong fun" argument of Internet bulletin board use because we are speculating about a game that isn't released yet?

And I'm trolling?

Anyhow tasty cake is done and we all await on baited breathe for both 5e and football season to get here as soon as possible.

Good night

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;760208So the very first post I make in this thread you agree with. But then you make the "bad wrong fun" argument of Internet bulletin board use because we are speculating about a game that isn't released yet?

And I'm trolling?

Anyhow tasty cake is done and we all await on baited breathe for both 5e and football season to get here as soon as possible.

Good night

Meh. You ask for an explanation yet go full retard on an obvious missed edit of one word that you knew was misplaced? I'd understand if it actually changed the meaning or context. Just for that stupidity I think I'll pop in from time to time this Fall/Winter just to liven the joint up.If I have time that is.

Quote from: Marleycat;760201O

Who knows? Do you?

Convienently you ignore the actual meaning of my post. I did say I actually disagree with the approach but my bad I figured you actually read the whole post? Rather then troll?

Let me get this straight: I agree with you that there are aspects of the fighters character sheet that allow for newbie hand holding. Maybe they should be there, maybe not. Maybe they are evidence of the content of the wider game. Maybe not.

Then you get pissy and throw troll accusations around. Here's a suggestion: Call the fucking waaaahmublance and take those hurt feels to tumblr. Seriously. Have a dose of "fuck off" while your about it too.

Quote from: Marleycat;760205My actual passions are baseball and football. I get serious there.

As a Cubs and Rays fan, I am DYING for the new D&D to get here.

As for the starter set, shoot -- I'm buying that damned thing just for the maps. If the campaign looks cool, I'll run it, but am likely to wait for the free pdf to kick up the next campaign.