I need a bit of help groking HERO 4e as I read though it, so I'll ask here as I have questions :)
I'm reading out of the Big Blue Book.
1. I'm not sure how Combat Skill Levels work. It's saya "one combat skill level" and "two combat skill levels" can be used to blah, but then there are also different point levels, like "2-point Combat Skill Level", 3-point, 5-point, etc... Basically I don't even understand it enough to ask a good question. Anyone help me out? An example would rock.
2. Power advantages and power limitations. How do you calculate point cost for a power that has both? It tells you they don't "cancel out" but it doesn't give an order of operations. Do you apply one first and then the other? All in one big formula?
I'm sure ill have more as I keep reading.
Thanks :)
Combat Skill Levels can be bought at different levels based upon how wide it casts a net. You can buy CSLs for a single attack or weapon (2-pts.), a small group of attacks or maneuvers (3-pts.), a large group (more than three related attacks, but less than all HTH attacks; 5-pts.), all HTH or all Ranged attacks (8-pts.), or all attacks (10-pts.).
Buying Powers: you apply Advantages to the power first and then apply Limitations to the power.
Quote from: Drohem;620465Combat Skill Levels can be bought at different levels based upon how wide it casts a net. You can buy CSLs for a single attack or weapon (2-pts.), a small group of attacks or maneuvers (3-pts.), a large group (more than three related attacks, but less than all HTH attacks; 5-pts.), all HTH or all Ranged attacks (8-pts.), or all attacks (10-pts.).
Awesome, and then in play you assign those skill levels to get the various effects, yes?
Can you mix and match? Like if I have 2 skill levels in "broad sword" and 2 in "all swords" when fighting with a broadsword I would have 4-levels to assign?
Quote from: Piestrio;620470Awesome, and then in play you assign those skill levels to get the various effects, yes?
Can you mix and match? Like if I have 2 skill levels in "broad sword" and 2 in "all swords" when fighting with a broadsword I would have 4-levels to assign?
Yes your Broadsword would be at +4 due to the 2 levels that are specific to Broadswords and the 2 levels that are applicable to all swords.
For example if you bought energy blast 6d6 for 30 points and had advantages totaling 1 1/2 and disadvantages totaling 3/4 the math works out like this
Base Cost = 30 points
with Advantages 30 * 2.5 = 75 pts (2.5 = 1 1/2 + 1)
with Disadvantages 75 /1.75 = 42.857 (rounded to 43 pts) (1.75 = 3/4 + 1)
So your total cost is 43 pts for this particular power.
New question:
In the combat maneuvers chart are the +\- applied score itself correct? Not the roll.
Also in the notes it says that "performing a disarm maneuver decreases the attackers DCV" except in the chart it has a 0 under DCV for disarm.
Just a mistake or am I not getting something?
Calculating Damage Class for powers with Power Advantages: Bwah?
How? Wha? Wh? Huh?
Okay so a 30 point energy blast would normally have a DC of 6. If I modify that with No Normal Defence that cranks the point cost up to 60 (30x(1+1)). So it then has a damage class of 12(!?) that doesn't square with the example at all (and seems ridiculous).
I'm completely turned around on this one.
The example just says that "The NND is a +1 Power Advantage, so each 5 Active Points would only add 1/2d6 NND.
W.T.F.
Quote from: Piestrio;620547Calculating Damage Class for powers with Power Advantages: Bwah?
How? Wha? Wh? Huh?
Well, the math throws some people off, so here's an important point: You always add a factor of 1. So +1 Advantage is a multiple of 1
plus 1, or double. A fraction is added to 1, so +1/2 Advantage means a Base Cost power of 30 is timed by 1.5, equals 45. Similarly, Limitations have the same factor. A -1/2 Limitation means you divide the power's cost by 1.5, so a 45 point power with that Limitation goes to 30 points Real Cost.
QuoteOkay so a 30 point energy blast would normally have a DC of 6. If I modify that with No Normal Defence that cranks the point cost up to 60 (30x(1+1)). So it then has a damage class of 12(!?) that doesn't square with the example at all (and seems ridiculous).
I'm completely turned around on this one.
The example just says that "The NND is a +1 Power Advantage, so each 5 Active Points would only add 1/2d6 NND.
W.T.F.
Yes, that's right. Keep in mind, Average Joe is gonna have 20 STUN and an action hero type will have around 30 STUN. Average roll on 6d6 is 18-20. This will KO the average guy outright with No Normal Defense. Of course the average guy also has a Defense of 2, so it will probably not be much difference. But then most heroic PCs will have Defenses around 4 to 8 and superheroes will have Force Fields, bulletproof armor and the like, so that makes the 6 dice attack a LOT more effective against such a character. It doesn't do
more damage, but that damage is more likely to have effect.
JG
Okay so I'm making a character called "The Zookeeper" for practice who has a magical catchpole.
The Catchpole is used to catch other creatures around the neck (entangle). Once caught the pole can be used to deal damage (HtHattack) and drain the creature of power (drain), both abilities are conditional on the creature being caught in the catchpole. The Pole requires skill and Strength to keep attached (Continuous Activation roll)
Might look like this:
Entangle- 5d6 (50pt)
Activation 14 or less (-1/2)
HtH attack - +5d6 (15pts)
Continuous (+1)
Conditional on successful Entangle (-1/4)
Drain - 2d6 (10pts)
Conditional on successful Entangle (-1/4)
Focus - Obvious and Accessible -1
Total: 32pts
Correct? Incorrect? Stupid?
Quote from: Piestrio;623863Okay so I'm making a character called "The Zookeeper" for practice who has a magical catchpole.
The Catchpole is used to catch other creatures around the neck (entangle). Once caught the pole can be used to deal damage (HtHattack) and drain the creature of power (drain), both abilities are conditional on the creature being caught in the catchpole. The Pole requires skill and Strength to keep attached (Continuous Activation roll)
Might look like this:
Entangle- 5d6 (50pt)
Activation 14 or less (-1/2)
HtH attack - +5d6 (15pts)
Continuous (+1)
Conditional on successful Entangle (-1/4)
Drain - 2d6 (10pts)
Conditional on successful Entangle (-1/4)
Focus - Obvious and Accessible -1
Total: 32pts
Correct? Incorrect? Stupid?
Feasible, but if this is something that requires a continuous Grab/Hold (as opposed to an Entangle that you can just throw on somebody and move on) it might be better to buy it as just extra Strength, that allows you to Grab and Squeeze for damage and maintain the hold with that extra STR, but doesn't increase lifting ability. I'd call that at least a -1/4 Limitation, maybe -1/2. In HERO sourcebooks, "Must Follow Grab" is a -1/2 Limitation, which would apply if the Drain and damage can only be applied on your next Phase
after the hold is established (and of course if the target hasn't broken out by then). OR, you can just buy the secondary Powers as "Linked" which is usually a -1/2 Limitation provided the Linked powers aren't more expensive than the main power (Entangle or extra STR Grab).
JG
Quote from: James Gillen;624062Feasible, but if this is something that requires a continuous Grab/Hold (as opposed to an Entangle that you can just throw on somebody and move on) it might be better to buy it as just extra Strength, that allows you to Grab and Squeeze for damage and maintain the hold with that extra STR, but doesn't increase lifting ability. I'd call that at least a -1/4 Limitation, maybe -1/2. In HERO sourcebooks, "Must Follow Grab" is a -1/2 Limitation, which would apply if the Drain and damage can only be applied on your next Phase after the hold is established (and of course if the target hasn't broken out by then). OR, you can just buy the secondary Powers as "Linked" which is usually a -1/2 Limitation provided the Linked powers aren't more expensive than the main power (Entangle or extra STR Grab).
JG
Cool, thanks.
Any 4e books that you think would be helpful in learning the art/science of power building?
FOURTH Edition? I'm not sure. One of the major goals of 5th Edition (repeated somewhat in 6E) was to have a whole bunch of things like Gadgets & Gear and The UNTIL Superpowers Sourcebook which were intended specifically to present concise examples of power design. I can't remember too much 4th Edition stuff that did that, except maybe that edition of Fantasy HERO, and in addition to having all the spells take "spellcasting" Limitations, I didn't like how everybody was obliged to buy all their spells in terms of what D&D would call a "specialist" school.
JG
Thanks for all the help guys.
One more-
I recently scored a couple dozen Champions supplements are there any stand-out 4e supplements that I should be aware of?
What about adventures? What's the best from the 4e era (if any)?
Quote from: Piestrio;629711Thanks for all the help guys.
One more-
I recently scored a couple dozen Champions supplements are there any stand-out 4e supplements that I should be aware of?
What about adventures? What's the best from the 4e era (if any)?
Dark Champions. Easily the most extensive list of real-world firearms and military gear for Hero System until FIFTH Edition Dark Champions. ;)
Let's see... was Aaron Allston's STRIKE FORCE a 4th Edition book.
No, as I recall, it came out before 4th.
Get it anyway. :D
JG
I always thought Aaron Allston's Ninja Hero was pretty cool, though memory is hazy.
Quote from: James Gillen;629811Dark Champions. Easily the most extensive list of real-world firearms and military gear for Hero System until FIFTH Edition Dark Champions. ;)
Let's see... was Aaron Allston's STRIKE FORCE a 4th Edition book.
No, as I recall, it came out before 4th.
Get it anyway. :D
JG
I got Dark Champions.
What is StrikeForce about?
Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;629890I always thought Aaron Allston's Ninja Hero was pretty cool, though memory is hazy.
I didn't get that but my FLGS has it in their used bin. What's cool about it?
Quote from: Piestrio;629947I didn't get that but my FLGS has it in their used bin. What's cool about it?
Ninja Hero has some great genre advice for running martial arts games, and the design sheets for campaign parameters and MA styles are pretty useful. For me the level of crunch in Hero 4e is just right - you can run a game where the players can design their own styles and moves without getting bogged down.
It would be perfect to run an 80s style revenge story..."finally, we meet, Dr Wu! You thought your henchman Black Mantis would stop me?! Ha! My Fifth Thundering Waterfall technique will make short work of you too!"
Quote from: Piestrio;629947I got Dark Champions.
What is StrikeForce about?
Basically the game stats for the characters in Allston's own long-running game, which serve to give an idea of how character relationships, major villains and organizations, and so forth, all develop organically and intersect. It also has a bunch of GM advice that ended up making its way into the Champions 4th Edition and later corebooks.
JG