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C&C: What are the main criticisms?

Started by arminius, January 11, 2012, 04:39:14 PM

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Akrasia

#30
January 11, 2012, 10:17:55 PM
Quote from: The Butcher;503852... their implementation of certain classes (Ranger, Knight, Bard)...

I do very much like the fact that C&C includes no 'semi-spell-users'.  Rangers, paladins, and bards don't use spells, which is how it should be IMO.

I think that the C&C Bard is my favourite version of the class.  I may tweak it someday for use in S&W. :)
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Benoist

#31
January 11, 2012, 10:20:43 PM
That's true, I agree. The C&C bard is pretty cool, actually.

J Arcane

#32
January 12, 2012, 12:21:05 AM
I don't have a problem with spell using hybrids, so long as their spells don't suck.

The 3e implementation was awful.
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thedungeondelver

#33
January 12, 2012, 12:31:39 AM
Quote from: Akrasia;503858I do very much like the fact that C&C includes no 'semi-spell-users'.  Rangers, paladins, and bards don't use spells, which is how it should be IMO.

I think that the C&C Bard is my favourite version of the class.  I may tweak it someday for use in S&W. :)

I think Bards should be able to use magic, but in a passive way.  I think back to ffewder fflam from The Chronicles of Prydain who just seemed to "know" the lore behind a certain amulet just by touching it.
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Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

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Spinachcat

#34
January 12, 2012, 12:56:17 AM
I never wanted to play a bard until C&C.

My bard is awesome fun to play. He's Falstaff from Richard II and Henry V - a huge jovial drunk with a perfect memory for rhymes.

While I agree with the SIEGE engine critiques, it worked just fine in actual play and I would happily play in a C&C game in the future. Especially if I can bring my bard.

Spinachcat

#35
January 12, 2012, 12:58:03 AM
Quote from: Akrasia;503678Also, Peter Bradley is perhaps the single most annoying person affiliated with a RPG company to post on any RPG forum anywhere.

I haven't had any interaction with Peter. What makes him so annoying?

Elfdart

#36
January 12, 2012, 02:03:12 AM
Quote from: FASERIP;503682At least he isn't some non-gaming, Jew-hating OSR groupie like Stefan Poag.

WTF?
Jesus Fucking Christ, is this guy honestly that goddamned stupid? He can\'t understand the plot of a Star Wars film? We\'re not talking about "Rashomon" here, for fuck\'s sake. The plot is as linear as they come. If anything, the film tries too hard to fill in all the gaps. This guy must be a flaming retard.  --Mike Wong on Red Letter Moron\'s review of The Phantom Menace

FASERIP

#37
January 12, 2012, 04:54:21 AM
Quote from: Elfdart;503944WTF?

I'd tell you to go read his blog, but he baleeted fucking everything.
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Speak your mind here without fear! They\'ll just lock the thread anyway.

joewolz

#38
January 12, 2012, 09:10:21 AM
Quote from: The Butcher;503856In the RAW, all Clerics have Wisdom as a Prime, which is +6 right off the bat. With a Wisdom bonus that's likely to be higher than the Ranger's, that means a +7 to +9 modifier, regardless of level.

Unless your Ranger also has Wisdom as a Prime, and an exceptional (13+) Wisdom with a similar bonus, it'll take him anywhere from 6 to 8 levels to outrank the Cleric at finding traps and ambushes, or tracking, or just about anything Wisdom-related.

I see.  This has never happened to me in actual play, but I can see how it might...if the cleric ever decided to try tracking.  This complaint (and not necessarily from you) smacks of a hypothetical brought from a critical reading of the rules, not a complaint from actual play experience.
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Philotomy Jurament

#39
January 12, 2012, 09:16:07 AM
Quote from: joewolz;504035I see.  This has never happened to me in actual play, but I can see how it might...if the cleric ever decided to try tracking.  This complaint (and not necessarily from you) smacks of a hypothetical brought from a critical reading of the rules, not a complaint from actual play experience.
It came up in my game.  Also, keep in mind that the same problem applies to the C&C surprise rules, and those come up all the time.
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Melan

#40
January 12, 2012, 10:14:45 AM
This is a relic from d20, where Spot and Listen are tied to Wisdom. It is not a very good fit, but there are no good alternatives either.
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jgants

#41
January 12, 2012, 10:26:10 AM
Quote from: Melan;504046This is a relic from d20, where Spot and Listen are tied to Wisdom. It is not a very good fit, but there are no good alternatives either.

The whole "Wisdom = Perception + Willpower/Spirituality" thing has always been an uncomfortable fit in D&D.  Most games either split them out or move perception to fit under Intelligence instead.

I can see an argument for it (perception being part intuition), but it's something I wouldn't mind changing in a new version of D&D either.


As for the OP, I'll echo the chorus of largely blaming the Seige engine.  Editing was bad.  Art was bad.  But the main thing preventing me from wanting to play is the Seige engine.
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Philotomy Jurament

#42
January 12, 2012, 10:56:15 AM
Quote from: Melan;504046This is a relic from d20, where Spot and Listen are tied to Wisdom. It is not a very good fit, but there are no good alternatives either.
This was one of my earliest C&C house rules where I started ditching the SIEGE engine.  My alternative was to use the surprise subsystem from AD&D.
The problem is not that power corrupts, but that the corruptible are irresistibly drawn to the pursuit of power. Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.

Benoist

#43
January 12, 2012, 11:05:36 AM
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;504062This was one of my earliest C&C house rules where I started ditching the SIEGE engine.  My alternative was to use the surprise subsystem from AD&D.

And once you do that a couple more times, you start wondering, "why am I not playing AD&D to begin with, exactly?"

thedungeondelver

#44
January 12, 2012, 11:56:18 AM
Quote from: Benoist;504067And once you do that a couple more times, you start wondering, "why am I not playing AD&D to begin with, exactly?"

Bingo.
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Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

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