We gotta have some C&C fans. I've enjoyed the game as AD&D 3e.
Anyone running a campaign? Doing something kewl with the system? Or using the official Troll Lords setting?
What's everybody's experience considering the game is 16 years old now.
A guy who lives near me is running a campaign on a regular basis. Every once in a while I think about joining his game, but I have a lot to do with work and my own game group and (sometimes) playing 5E at the game store so I never get around to it.
I don't do much with C&C anymore. I playtested back in the early days and spent a lot of time playing C&C once it came out, but my group is currently more interested in 5E than C&C so my rulebooks are collecting a lot of dust at the moment. I have this desire to reintroduce OD&D to the group, so C&C may remain on the back shelf for a while longer.
Having said all that, I still think that C&C is one of the best game systems out there. It's better organized than OD&D. It's better written than AD&D. It's better mechanics than 3E. It's simpler and faster than 5E. I think it suffers from a lack of marketing, as I never see C&C stuff at my local game store and nobody runs C&C there. Even the Troll Lords seem to be moving more to 5E -- they keep creating 5E content and Amazing Adventures is about to be re-released as a 5E product.
Quote from: finarvyn;1124438A guy who lives near me is running a campaign on a regular basis. Every once in a while I think about joining his game, but I have a lot to do with work and my own game group and (sometimes) playing 5E at the game store so I never get around to it.
I don't do much with C&C anymore. I playtested back in the early days and spent a lot of time playing C&C once it came out, but my group is currently more interested in 5E than C&C so my rulebooks are collecting a lot of dust at the moment. I have this desire to reintroduce OD&D to the group, so C&C may remain on the back shelf for a while longer.
Having said all that, I still think that C&C is one of the best game systems out there. It's better organized than OD&D. It's better written than AD&D. It's better mechanics than 3E. It's simpler and faster than 5E. I think it suffers from a lack of marketing, as I never see C&C stuff at my local game store and nobody runs C&C there. Even the Troll Lords seem to be moving more to 5E -- they keep creating 5E content and Amazing Adventures is about to be re-released as a 5E product.
Quote from: finarvyn;1124438A guy who lives near me is running a campaign on a regular basis. Every once in a while I think about joining his game, but I have a lot to do with work and my own game group and (sometimes) playing 5E at the game store so I never get around to it.
I don't do much with C&C anymore. I playtested back in the early days and spent a lot of time playing C&C once it came out, but my group is currently more interested in 5E than C&C so my rulebooks are collecting a lot of dust at the moment. I have this desire to reintroduce OD&D to the group, so C&C may remain on the back shelf for a while longer.
Having said all that, I still think that C&C is one of the best game systems out there. It's better organized than OD&D. It's better written than AD&D. It's better mechanics than 3E. It's simpler and faster than 5E. I think it suffers from a lack of marketing, as I never see C&C stuff at my local game store and nobody runs C&C there. Even the Troll Lords seem to be moving more to 5E -- they keep creating 5E content and Amazing Adventures is about to be re-released as a 5E product.
I agree with you about C&C ; it's actually one of the best D&D-like systems out there. Unfortunately it just can't get much traction, for whatever reason. I do blame the trolls on their total inability to proofread when they print a new batch, which has agitated me to no end. The last game I ran was B/X, and we almost used C&C instead, but I switched at the last second to totally distance the players from anything that resembled 5th edition because they were starting to get some bad habits. I waffle between running AD&D and C&C almost weekly, but AD&D usually wins out for whatever reason. No idea why, I can run C&C while really drunk because the combat system is brain-dead easy, and it's easier for the players because they can just tell me what AC they hit instead of me having to look at the chart. I will say I use the AD&D Turn Undead tables whenever I run C&C, though, because I fucking hate how 3rd/5th/whatever did it, and C&C resembles that too much for my tastes. Also I don't really like the saving throws so much, but it does make the game more deadly at higher levels, which is nice. I prefer the martial bard, ranger, and paladin over AD&D sometimes because it makes magic more rare. Overall, C&C is grittier than AD&D, and that's a good change of pace.
Anyone back the CKG Kickstarter? I said I'd never back another one of the Trolls KS because I still haven't gotten my Gods and Monsters book they promised with the PHB KS, but I do like new books...
Also I had to edit this post because I got an error: Non-English characters are not accepted: &C ; Nice.
So what's so awesome about C&C? Old-school grognard here, familiar with AD&D1E and 3.5E.
Never played. Always wanted to though. This thread makes me want to more.
You C&C fans -- what would be your recommended C&C starter kit for noobs? https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Castles-&-Crusades-Player-Books-Combo/p/116069011/category=13376122 and https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Castles-&-Crusades-Castle-Keepers-Guide/p/45154033/category=13376125 ? Anything else that's a can't-miss or shouldn't-miss? Any great adventures/setting content?
The C&C Bard is my favorite version of that class by a long shot. I ran C&C for a few years (~2005-07), using the PHB and M&T, before the siren song of OD&D (via S&W White Box) lured me away. It's a fine system, and my then-group picked it up quickly and had a lot of fun.
Currently running a C&C game on Saturday nights. I've been on board since the first printing. For me it is what 3rd Edition should have been, cleaned up AD&D. By far my favorite thing to come out of the OGL.
Mark
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1124474Never played. Always wanted to though. This thread makes me want to more.
You C&C fans -- what would be your recommended C&C starter kit for noobs? https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Castles-&-Crusades-Player-Books-Combo/p/116069011/category=13376122 and https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Castles-&-Crusades-Castle-Keepers-Guide/p/45154033/category=13376125 ? Anything else that's a can't-miss or shouldn't-miss? Any great adventures/setting content?
You only need the PHB, honestly. The MM is good, but if you have an old AD&D MM, you can probably convert it in your head in about five seconds per monster. The CKG is unnecessary if you're remotely familiar with running games; it has a ton of good ideas, but most of the stuff is optional rules and any DM who has been running a game for a couple years could probably come up with something just as good if not better.
That said, the best thing out there is a Conan book some fan wrote; I think he might have made a post on here before. It's free and badass.
I found C&C about 6 years ago when I was looking to get back into gaming, after 20+ years away from it. I played AD&D from '80 thru about '89. I looked at Pathfinder and didn't like all the rules. Way too heavy for me. Found C&C just by poking around on the internet. Bought the digest versions of the core books on ebay just to try it out. I really liked the simplicity of it. I also got some great advice from guys on the TLG forums. I started a one on one campaign with my son playing old D&D and 1E modules in the Greyhawk setting. We still run the game once a month or so. I love the way it plays. It's easy to convert on the fly.
Quote from: Brad;1124480You only need the PHB, honestly. The MM is good, but if you have an old AD&D MM, you can probably convert it in your head in about five seconds per monster. The CKG is unnecessary if you're remotely familiar with running games; it has a ton of good ideas, but most of the stuff is optional rules and any DM who has been running a game for a couple years could probably come up with something just as good if not better.
That said, the best thing out there is a Conan book some fan wrote; I think he might have made a post on here before. It's free and badass.
Well, thanks to theRPGSite, I'm now in for yet another system to read and longingly dream of playing. You guys had better start an online game sometime or something. We're all freakin quarantined anyway. :D
But seriously, thanks! And thanks for pushing me off of the fence. I'm really looking forward to reading these.
Don't forget if you play online using Fantasy Grounds the full ruleset is available and works nicely.
Quote from: Brad;1124480You only need the PHB, honestly. The MM is good, but if you have an old AD&D MM, you can probably convert it in your head in about five seconds per monster. The CKG is unnecessary if you're remotely familiar with running games; it has a ton of good ideas, but most of the stuff is optional rules and any DM who has been running a game for a couple years could probably come up with something just as good if not better.
This exactly. I was in on the playtest of C&C back in 2003 and it was PH-only. We used my AD&D 2E Monster Manual for most of the critters and ran my crew through a bunch of the old "monochrome" AD&D modules (the Giants series, I think) and everything ran just fine. The monster books that TLG puts out are pretty solid but I own the CKG but honestly have never really used it.
Quote from: Brad;1124480That said, the best thing out there is a Conan book some fan wrote; I think he might have made a post on here before. It's free and badass.
You can find that stuff here: https://www.grey-elf.com/ Jason actually just posted his 3rd sourcebook in that series. You can download all 3 books and a GM screen and a character sheet for free. :)
C&C has been my go-to OSR game since 2004. I run all my OSR games using it exclusively.
I've been following C&C for years, though without the chance to play it--I keep coming back to it as a baseline engine for the streamlined 2E-style games I'd like to run, but haven't gotten around to yet. But they're giving away the current PHB in digital format for free at //www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/ right now.
ETA: One other upside--unlike WotC, Paizo, or Green Ronin, I don't think the Trolls hate me or would disapprove of me using their games. :)
Fan here- I've run it quite a bit since 2004-ish. I used the PHB and the AD&D MM and Monstrous Manual only for years until I got a copy of M&T.
It's one of my "go to' D&D games (along with DW, and 13th Age). My players enjoy it. And the system is very amiable to all my houserules (i.e. mostly thigs I have stolen from other D20 games), and still on the fly easy peasy compatible with O/TSR material as well as 3.X.
I have run a few Siege Engine variants over the years, and the system handles it. E.g. during the NEXT playtest, I stole Advantage, made all rolls a flat CC/DC of 15 and PRIME would allow Advantage on rolls. It worked fine. I have messed with Math directly (12/18) and indirectly (e.g. using modern D&D Ability bonus charts so dice roll mods are higher and PCs getting Ability Score bonuses over time ), and the whole system reacts well.
TLG is a great company and runs all kinds of sales over a year (and did so long before many others) and making it easy to procure more fun stuff ( owning their own print shop is a huge advantage here). Good people. They even just offered up the PHB for free during recent events.
My only pet peeve- Not really a fan of Peter Bradley's cheesecake art, or his interpretations of classic D&D creatures like Gnomes, Goblins, Kobolds, etc. I do admire his trying to do things differently, but not digging his execution.
Quote from: Troll Lord GamesThere is light at the end of the tunnel, and we'll be through it sooner than you think, of that there is little doubt. In the meantime, we must all do our part and stay out of the public sphere. To help you through this, for a limited time you can download the Castles & Crusades Players Handbook for free. It's everything you need to run and play a game of Castles & Crusades. Also, enjoy A Houseless God and Other Tales, four short stories of Eurich Gunshoff and Ava, a ranger of some renown.
https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/
Thanks, Troll Lord Games!
Quote from: JeffB;1125043I have run a few Siege Engine variants over the years, and the system handles it. E.g. during the NEXT playtest, I stole Advantage, made all rolls a flat CC/DC of 15 and PRIME would allow Advantage on rolls.
That's an EXCELLENT idea!!
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1124472So what's so awesome about C&C? Old-school grognard here, familiar with AD&D1E and 3.5E.
What he said.
Quote from: Aglondir;1125079https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/
Thanks, Troll Lord Games!
Thanks for the head's up, this thread got me curious!
All skills/saving throws/ability rolls work on a simple check. roll d20+bonus+level if it's higher then the difficulty you succeed (difficult is challenge level + either a 18 or 12) If attribute invloved is primary use 12 as the base otherwise the base is 18.
You get 1 primary from your class and if human two more of choice. Otherwise you only get 1 of choice.
Example 4th level fighter decides to try and life a portcullis. GM/CK says its a challenge 5. Fighter rolls a D20+4 (for level)+(STR bonus) vs 17 (If STR is prim which it is for all fighters) or 23 (if not prim).
Lvls/exp growth is AD&D style. Characters are not gods. The game can be run with just the PHB (less then 200 pages) and any AD&D/OD&D/OSR monster book you have with effectively no conversion (so cheap entry into the game).
Quote from: Spinachcat;1125089That's an EXCELLENT idea!!
Once in awhile I get a excellent idea. I'm pretty sure that was the last one, and if you asked my wife, even that would be questionable.
It does work well, and makes the characters a little more heroic- it especially helps with the (for many familiar with it) "problem" of high level PCs almost never making Non Prime saves- keeping the disparity between PRIME and NON PRIMES not as drastic. That combined with a modern ability score mod chart (vs. C&C's B/X derivative) is great if you want to add some "oomph" to your C&C PC's.
Not to mention it just makes things so much easier.
Quote from: Marchand;1125101What he said.
It's OD&D+ supps/AD&D through the lens of a modern (for the time) D20 system. The spirit of the game hearkens back to the minimal rolling, fast, loose,and minimum amount of rule necessary. It was OSR/Retro before the OSR.
It was also designed to be on the fly compatible with the TSR editions of the game, in particular all the adventure products available since D&D's inception. It is also very easy to convert much of the 3.0 material from WOTC proper and the D20 market (3.5 less so, due to it's added reams upon reams of changes large and small). Stat blocks for creatures are similar to old B/X D&D products.
It is lighter than any WOTC version of the game- and it's lighter than AD&D/OD&D + supplements because the systems are tighter and easier to teach (everything runs off simple ability checks). It is also highly hackable/moldable- I've added all kinds of things from other games like 13th Ages Backgrounds, and Monster "Specials" and they plug right in. I've beefed up the Fighter class with some 4E-isms.
C&C gives a bit more AD&D options with it's class/race choices and spells, but it plays more like B/X.
The Trolls also put out a bunch of good adventure material.Some people are put off the by the attempts of the Trolls to write the books in "High Gygaxian" (and frankly the Trolls just don't quite cut the mustard at it) , so the books could probably be a lot less page count than they are. That said, I have come to enjoy their style/attempt vs. reading so many rulebooks that come off as a school textbook and either put me to sleep, or turn me off a game.
Quote from: nightlamp;1124477The C&C Bard is my favorite version of that class by a long shot. I ran C&C for a few years (~2005-07), using the PHB and M&T, before the siren song of OD&D (via S&W White Box) lured me away. It's a fine system, and my then-group picked it up quickly and had a lot of fun.
My only problem with them is that I can't figure out why they use a d10 for hit dice. I think a 6 would be better.
Quote from: Jason Coplen;1125111My only problem with them is that I can't figure out why they use a d10 for hit dice. I think a 6 would be better.
My guess:
Probably because of the way the 1E Bard acquired it's Hit Points. 1E was always the go-to. So a 1E Bard would have had at least 5 levels and up to 8 levels worth of D10 Hit dice before switching over to a Thief and continuing on.
Quote from: Jason Coplen;1125111My only problem with them is that I can't figure out why they use a d10 for hit dice. I think a 6 would be better.
The C&C bard, based on the comments I recall from the designers, is meant to be a skald or warrior-poet rather than a minstrel.
The C&C bard is absolutely a warrior poet. Definitely the most fun of the C&C classes I played, although C&C does allow for a great human thief which AD&D did not.
Quote from: finarvyn;1124513You can find that stuff here: https://www.grey-elf.com/ Jason actually just posted his 3rd sourcebook in that series. You can download all 3 books and a GM screen and a character sheet for free. :)
I think he referred to the C&C conversion of Conan d20. Not the same as Jason Vey's OD&D/Chainmail hybrid Age of Conan. The C&C conversion was a very in-depth reimagining of the Conan d20 rulebook (and some stuff from other sourcebooks) and was posted on the TLG boards many years ago. But last I checked it was gone.
Very nice though that Jason has released a third supplement for AoC. Im reading it right now. Thanks.
Quote from: Teodrik;1125189I think he referred to the C&C conversion of Conan d20. Not the same as Jason Vey's OD&D/Chainmail hybrid Age of Conan. The C&C conversion was a very in-depth reimagining of the Conan d20 rulebook (and some stuff from other sourcebooks) and was posted on the TLG boards many years ago. But last I checked it was gone.
Very nice though that Jason has released a third supplement for AoC. Im reading it right now. Thanks.
I'm pretty certain that we're talking about ThrorII's conversion (http://www.trolllord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9495). I saw that the user Rigon is hosting v2 of the document here (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5ho4a6ujfcp3ks6/AADwVC5Z86-kwoDoJl_JOZzGa), the name of the file is "C&C Conan Rules v2[1].pdf".
Thanks for everyone for sparking my interest in C&C, btw!
As much as I want to love Troll Lord Games my inner grammarian refuses to die completely, leading to reflexive kicks to the ribs whenever I encounter their frequent published typos. It's a professionalism thing. :o So I like them, but dearly would prefer to love them.
That said their modules do cut down on prep time as they are more utilitarian, less frustrated novelist.
Quote from: JeffB;1125043My only pet peeve- Not really a fan of Peter Bradley's cheesecake art, or his interpretations of classic D&D creatures like Gnomes, Goblins, Kobolds, etc. I do admire his trying to do things differently, but not digging his execution.
The only art of his I actually like is the cheesecake stuff. He draws strippers really well. Everything else, not so much. And the last time I tried to run C&C, the group made fun of the art.
They should do a kickstarter for a version with all new art. They could get the artists that did Hackmaster 4. I'd also love one done in a manga style. That would be great.