Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 26, 2022, 12:25:11 AM
So these aren't like actual futhark runes?

This was my immediate thought . . . for folks looking for something that does, I'd encourage you to check out Pendelhaven's games. They all use rune's drawn from a bag to resolve action. Characters have different sets, and depending on what you pull you may be able to perform different actions. Implementation varies between games.

Fate of the Norns: Ragnarok is the big core game, and is pretty trad other than the resolution and heavy viking lore. They did a translation of all the eddas with a fair amount of unifying stories between em, called the Illumniated Eddas that I've been reading through lately. Mythology sure can be strange sometimes.

Vanagard is much more on the light story-game side, but the story card art is fantastic.

Quote from: Mishihari on February 27, 2022, 04:40:15 AM
You're exactly right that that's my view as a player.  As a DM I do figure probabilities, but I have as much time as I need to do it, so it's not too critical that things can be quickly computed.

We probably have different styles, there. I imagine you're thinking of creating an adventure and assigning difficulties or target numbers for prepared challenges or obstacles. Most of the situations I'm thinking of come up in game, at the table during play. Often I'm handling a game situation that I may not have even considered during prep. I do a lot of the "coming up with a probability or an appropriate modifier" thing on the fly, so having something fast and easy to reason about is a benefit.

Lace and Steel and at least one other RPG out there use a tarot deck for chargen for example.

Theres been one or two tries at runestone throwing RPGs back in the late 90s. I think I even still have one, or had it. But do not recall the title. It had these plastic or porcelin-like stones in it. Each with a rune on it.

Theres at least 3 PC games that do from way back too. The 90s was big on this stuff for a brief time.

But for a modern take on it you have games like FFG's Star Wars game where the dice have these symbols on them and you have to interpret the outcomes.

Jesus Christ. Omega, that looks awful. Next time someone complains D&D or PF is too complex, I'm shoving that in their face.

Torchbearer has these:

They are marked with dots that show their number, but you don't really need those. Generally it's just: Wyrms (1-3 )= failure. Axes
(4-5) & Burning Wheel (6) = success.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 04, 2022, 11:25:18 AM
Jesus Christ. Omega, that looks awful. Next time someone complains D&D or PF is too complex, I'm shoving that in their face.

Oh it gets "better" The different dice/colour have meanings too...

They repurposed the dice for their Genesys RPG. A generic storygame. They work for the storytelling oracle system fairly well, if overly complex, once you get how to read the runes.

I agree with the sentiment it seems a bit gimmicky. If casting runes is directly related to an ingame action then it might be immersive (for example the PCs are sorcerers and throw rune in game to cast their spells). But generally I want clean results I can see to keep me engaged in the story, and dice do this well. For me stopping to interpret results breaks that immersion.

Broadly agree with the idea that GMs and to an extent PCs shouod have a clear understanding of the odds as well.

That said I have no issue with massive (regular) dice pools.

I would say it can work when done right. But there is a threshold where it can become too complex or too gimmiky to work. Much like using cards or a tarot instead of dice.

Theres also the problem that it can, and likely will, take longer to get each outcome. Either from just having to draw and replace runes, or the task of reading the oracle. Yes you can over time get better at it. But its still a time cost that needs to be weighed. I mean theres plenty of players who can use the FFG system and dice smoothly. But theres others who struggle with it. And keep in mind that every roll has to be parsed out individually.

Quote from: Omega on March 06, 2022, 03:45:23 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 04, 2022, 11:25:18 AM
Jesus Christ. Omega, that looks awful. Next time someone complains D&D or PF is too complex, I'm shoving that in their face.

Oh it gets "better" The different dice/colour have meanings too...

They repurposed the dice for their Genesys RPG. A generic storygame. They work for the storytelling oracle system fairly well, if overly complex, once you get how to read the runes.

How well did this game sell, again? Or is it dead on arrival?

What the fucking fuck.

We tried that Star Wars garbage and avoided the Genesys game that pushed the dice too. It was awful. There were some fawning fans but blech.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2022, 08:05:45 AM
How well did this game sell, again? Or is it dead on arrival?

What the fucking fuck.

It seemed to sell well and of course Storygamers loved it. I wonder if it would have fared so well without a popular IP connected to it.

The main problem was that the game was stupidly expensive if you got into it and wanted access to all the stuff. As FFG true to form sectioned the extra classes and some other stuff up and sold them individually. Getting every class or add on to just Edge of Empire alone would set you back 245$. The supplements another 250$ and 150$ for the core, starter and GM set. And of course something like 14$ per dice set.

You could play with just the core and some dice. Just like you can play 2e D&D without all the Handbook sets.

Locally it seemed to do well for at least a year. But I suspect FFG eventually dropped the ball at some point as they oft do now. Probably the hype and novelty of the dice wore off too. Its not a bad system. But it takes a certain mindset to really get into. Anyone used to other oracle storytelling systems like FU or Mythic, or the old Universalis will likely pick up on the way this plays easier.

Doesnt Fate require you to read the +/- dice too?

Quote from: Omega on March 07, 2022, 09:07:36 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2022, 08:05:45 AM
How well did this game sell, again? Or is it dead on arrival?

What the fucking fuck.

It seemed to sell well and of course Storygamers loved it. I wonder if it would have fared so well without a popular IP connected to it.

The main problem was that the game was stupidly expensive if you got into it and wanted access to all the stuff. As FFG true to form sectioned the extra classes and some other stuff up and sold them individually. Getting every class or add on to just Edge of Empire alone would set you back 245$. The supplements another 250$ and 150$ for the core, starter and GM set. And of course something like 14$ per dice set.

You could play with just the core and some dice. Just like you can play 2e D&D without all the Handbook sets.

Locally it seemed to do well for at least a year. But I suspect FFG eventually dropped the ball at some point as they oft do now. Probably the hype and novelty of the dice wore off too. Its not a bad system. But it takes a certain mindset to really get into. Anyone used to other oracle storytelling systems like FU or Mythic, or the old Universalis will likely pick up on the way this plays easier.

Doesnt Fate require you to read the +/- dice too?

I'm mystified as to how this could be an improvement over the old West End Games d6 SW. I should not have to do this much prep work to fucking read dice.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2022, 08:05:45 AM

Quote from: Omega on March 06, 2022, 03:45:23 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 04, 2022, 11:25:18 AM
Jesus Christ. Omega, that looks awful. Next time someone complains D&D or PF is too complex, I'm shoving that in their face.

Oh it gets "better" The different dice/colour have meanings too...

They repurposed the dice for their Genesys RPG. A generic storygame. They work for the storytelling oracle system fairly well, if overly complex, once you get how to read the runes.

How well did this game sell, again? Or is it dead on arrival?

What the fucking fuck.

No one would accuse me of being a Storygamer. I own the *entire* FFG Star Wars line. I'm one of the few people on this forum that publicly defends the game - and I certainly didn't start as a fan. In fact I sounded exactly like you, LOL.

I saw those dice and I was like WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK? I *really* wanted to play some Star Wars (and yes I still own all my WEG books) but my players were wanting to try the new shiny. But yeah those dice were a HUUUUUUUUUUGE hurdle for me on the surface. I started watching some videos - Runeslinger specifically, and his presentation of the rules got my piqued.

So while yes it looks like a load of steaming shit - it actually plays fantastically well and it's not nearly as "narrative" as people think.

Effectively the dice represent Bonuses and Penalties that cancel each other out on the roll.

In that image the bottom three dice oppose the top three dice. It's a Stat + Skill = Dice vs. Difficulty dice - + Modifiers. The results are hard numbers - HOWEVER you can if you want use some of the results to toss in narrative benefits/difficulties, or roll on a random table. OR you can spend them to activate actual mechanical effects (Talents or Gear).

I've been running it for years - and it really does work. My first game session I wanted to put it through its paces, and the combat flowed well, and I felt the Starship combat worked *really* well. Even across scales of ships (Starfighter to Capital).

I own Genesys too - never ran it. There ARE problems with the system, but ironically the dice mechanic isn't it. AS an aside, and I have to say this everytime I step up to the plate for FFG SW, is that you can use normal dice, they even provide a table for you, or an app (I do not recommend since I like dice rolling).

But yeah - is you wanted to use a "Runecasting" system... this would be a good place to look for ideas. It looks janky, but it plays quite well.

I would also add - I know a few people that have tried this system, and it simply didn't click. I think there is this thing where people pretend it's very abstract when it literally doesn't have to be since you can just use tables to dictate the results purely mechanically. But they also provide other options that can prompt GM's to get creative.

I've been more interested in the gaming systems of TTRPG's than in actually playing the games. I find this sad, but it is what it is.

In playtesting different systems, I have come to the conclusion that the "add bonus to your probability roll" system is fun but lacks in many respects verisimilitude, and there is no way with that system to really fix this problem (at least not that I have found).

While I have not learned Star Wars' system yet, I wonder if it lends itself to more verisimilitude. What do you think?

OSR thinking kind of accomplishes this with their "Rulings not rules" concept. Sadly, this excludes dice in almost all respects.

Quote from: tenbones on March 07, 2022, 11:18:04 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 07, 2022, 08:05:45 AM

Quote from: Omega on March 06, 2022, 03:45:23 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 04, 2022, 11:25:18 AM
Jesus Christ. Omega, that looks awful. Next time someone complains D&D or PF is too complex, I'm shoving that in their face.

Oh it gets "better" The different dice/colour have meanings too...

They repurposed the dice for their Genesys RPG. A generic storygame. They work for the storytelling oracle system fairly well, if overly complex, once you get how to read the runes.

How well did this game sell, again? Or is it dead on arrival?

What the fucking fuck.

No one would accuse me of being a Storygamer. I own the *entire* FFG Star Wars line. I'm one of the few people on this forum that publicly defends the game - and I certainly didn't start as a fan. In fact I sounded exactly like you, LOL.

I saw those dice and I was like WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK? I *really* wanted to play some Star Wars (and yes I still own all my WEG books) but my players were wanting to try the new shiny. But yeah those dice were a HUUUUUUUUUUGE hurdle for me on the surface. I started watching some videos - Runeslinger specifically, and his presentation of the rules got my piqued.

So while yes it looks like a load of steaming shit - it actually plays fantastically well and it's not nearly as "narrative" as people think.

Effectively the dice represent Bonuses and Penalties that cancel each other out on the roll.

In that image the bottom three dice oppose the top three dice. It's a Stat + Skill = Dice vs. Difficulty dice - + Modifiers. The results are hard numbers - HOWEVER you can if you want use some of the results to toss in narrative benefits/difficulties, or roll on a random table. OR you can spend them to activate actual mechanical effects (Talents or Gear).

I've been running it for years - and it really does work. My first game session I wanted to put it through its paces, and the combat flowed well, and I felt the Starship combat worked *really* well. Even across scales of ships (Starfighter to Capital).

I own Genesys too - never ran it. There ARE problems with the system, but ironically the dice mechanic isn't it. AS an aside, and I have to say this everytime I step up to the plate for FFG SW, is that you can use normal dice, they even provide a table for you, or an app (I do not recommend since I like dice rolling).

But yeah - is you wanted to use a "Runecasting" system... this would be a good place to look for ideas. It looks janky, but it plays quite well.

I would also add - I know a few people that have tried this system, and it simply didn't click. I think there is this thing where people pretend it's very abstract when it literally doesn't have to be since you can just use tables to dictate the results purely mechanically. But they also provide other options that can prompt GM's to get creative.

  What do you find to be the biggest issues with Genesys?  I own it as well, and it intrigues me, but I do not feel a *click* I guess.