all depends on how the fiddlybits are implemented...

These sorts of things have actually been around for a surprisingly long time.  And the basic answer to the question "why" has always been the same: as a cheap gimmick to try to get easy attention.

Its notable that I can't really think of any game that earned long-standing success with one of these wonky mechanics. TORG and Castle Falkenstein would be the two closest.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;415188These sorts of things have actually been around for a surprisingly long time.  And the basic answer to the question "why" has always been the same: as a cheap gimmick to try to get easy attention.

And what the fuck is up with those funny dice? Just use regular dice so I can steal some from Yahtzee, you attention whores!

Quote from: Halfjack;414782I adore a little tactile representation, especially if it replaces bookkeeping on paper, and still more if it's information more than one person needs to facilitate play. Bring it on, I want more games to do this.

Bold emphasis mine.  I don't mind doodads at the table (provided there is enough room) that make the game run faster (reference tools) or reduce the amount of eraser shavings all over the place (which I find sort of repulsive).  I'll also add that using doodads can serve as excellent reminder devices and fewer "take backs."

Some of these things have been with us for a long time.  The person playing the priest or wizard often printed out copies of their spells on separate pages or kept them in a notebook.  Is that a gimmick or a doodad?  I guess, in a way.  When I play a cleric, I usually keep some obnoxious or obvious doodad handy so that I can hand to a player that I've buffed.  When they have a bright yellow plastic koala bear staring up at them from their character sheet, they usually remember their +1 to hit from Bless.  I've been doing stuff like that for years.

A game can take things too far, of course.

Quote from: Halfjack;414782I adore a little tactile representation, especially if it replaces bookkeeping on paper, and still more if it's information more than one person needs to facilitate play. Bring it on, I want more games to do this.

I agree up to a point.

The newest WFRP is on the other side of that point.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;415201And what the fuck is up with those funny dice? Just use regular dice so I can steal some from Yahtzee, you attention whores!

You mean like with Classic Traveller, Mongoose Traveller, or d6 Star Wars?

Quote from: jeff37923;415206You mean like with Classic Traveller, Mongoose Traveller, or d6 Star Wars?

Or GURPS, one of my favorite games.

They're games. Games, in general, have fiddly bits, some more than others. Arguing that they're some gimmicky violation of the purist RPG spirit strikes me as kind of absurd.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;415209Or GURPS, one of my favorite games.

They're games. Games, in general, have fiddly bits, some more than others. Arguing that they're some gimmicky violation of the purist RPG spirit strikes me as kind of absurd.

I can understand that, but when Deadlands first came out - those fiddly bits hadn't been streamlined into the game so that character creation was a seamless whole that played smoothly, so the fiddly bits got in the way more than helped create a fun gaming experience for me.

I'm more of KISS principle gamer, because Keep It Simple Stupid works best for me to speed up play and get more people involved who have never gamed before.

Quote from: jeff37923;415213I can understand that, but when Deadlands first came out - those fiddly bits hadn't been streamlined into the game so that character creation was a seamless whole that played smoothly, so the fiddly bits got in the way more than helped create a fun gaming experience for me.

Yeah, I'll actually agree about Deadlands. I think the bennies and cards in Savage Worlds are fine, but the poker chips were confusing and kind of unnecessary.

Deadlands is one of those games that I love, but also wish they'd cut out the poker hands and poker chips. To me, they just caused problems, and made keeping track of stuff harder. I guess for others, it worked out fine.

I'm in a Deadlands game and I also wouldn't mind seeing the cards/chips go away. I see no benefit from having them there... what they do add is a sort of meta-gamey aspect I don't appreciate or enjoy... they tinker with my immersion (same goes for fancy dice mechanics).
Strangely... or not so strangely... I like all that sort of gimmicky crap when I'm playing miniature wargames or boardgames... where the action bulk of the action is on the table and not inside my head.

We've always enjoyed the cards/chips stuff, in Deadlands Classic and Reloaded. Heck, one of my players (who played a Huckster, and had to deal with poker hands far more than any of the rest of us) thought that Reloaded (which dramatically reduced the role of the poker hands) was *too* streamlined from Classic.

Quote from: Halfjack;414782I adore a little tactile representation, especially if it replaces bookkeeping on paper, and still more if it's information more than one person needs to facilitate play. Bring it on, I want more games to do this.

QFT!!!

I want games(!) not merely grimoire-like BOOKS i need to haul around!

Money. That's why. Why sell one book for £20 when you can sell a box of useless plastic and cardboard crap for £72? Yeah that's Fantasy Flight Games' philosophy.

I am pleased to say Postmortem doesn't stoop to that level. Hell to run Xpress Shadow World all you need is a core book (£6 PDF £12 Printed) and 5D6. Anything else is optional. Yes I am aware we're making fuck all and Fantasy Flight are making millions but I don't care about the money I care about producing fun games that can actually be played.

Yes its about the money. It's not just that you can sell the offical poker chips or the power cards to makea bit extra it's that the market is small so you need to make the most of the smaller gamer market. It's also because books are easy to pirate but poker ships with pictures of Cthulu on or glossy playing cards are hard to pirate.

Now I think Savage World runs very smooth despite the 'bits' as they save book-keeping. However, Amber runs smoother because not only do I not need the bit I don't need the books either. In my GenCon game I didn't have to open a single book or refer to one bit of the printed material I brought with me. I had to clarify a few rules to the players but they were judgement calls on the rules and I made the call and where necessary annotated those calls with  "how the universe works" statements.

So where the bits reduce book-keeping and rules reference that's good where they are fiddly for no reason other than to be fiddly and so they distract from the immersion then that is stupid. Cards to track your spells, good idea, chips or stones to track your hit points, good idea, playing a game of poker to decide if your skill suceeds, bad idea.