Okay, this is probably a loaded question that will probably result in a loaded discussion on both sides of the aisle, but I have a serious question.
I've recently come up with an idea for a dark comedy RPG where the PC's are anthropomorphic woodland creatures in a World War I setting (I call it "Trench Critters"), but I'm afraid of actually doing anything with it because I don't want to be lumped in with the rather infamous furry fandom. And that got me thinking, in this day and age of internet culture, can you make a work with animal characters without being labeled as "furry"? I'm serious here, because I like my WWI idea, but I'm afraid of getting a lot of hatred and being labeled something I'm not.
There are actual dedicated furry RPG's such as Ironclaw and the Fursona series, and they are widely mocked and hated for the most part (generally justified in the case of the Fursona series, given the rest of Chris A. Field's work). I don't want Trench Critters to be lumped in with those works. It doesn't help that my idea was very loosely inspired by Looney Tunes, Sonic The Hedgehog, and Crash Bandicoot, so I'm afraid of even developing this idea as a campaign, let alone a full game. Even non-furry RPG's such as Werewolf: The Apocalypse and the TMNT game get a lot of flak because of the furries.
So, I ask you guys, is there any way one can make a game with animal PC's and not be considered "furry" and if so, what pitfalls should you avoid?
Please keep this discussion civil.
Was this one of your sources of inspiration, by any chance?
[video=youtube_share;pGNoPkygkzI]https://youtu.be/pGNoPkygkzI?list=PLUnbx1R7OWDTgtAOU2c0cQnIXJDNGx8m e[/youtube]
Quote from: Cave Bear;935156Was this one of your sources of inspiration, by any chance?
[video=youtube_share;pGNoPkygkzI]https://youtu.be/pGNoPkygkzI?list=PLUnbx1R7OWDTgtAOU2c0cQnIXJDNGx8m e[/youtube]
Actually, Peace on Earth is one of my more serious inspirations for "Trench Critters". I had that cartoon on VHS as part of a compilation of other classic cartoons when I was a kid.
Neat! What was the compilation?
As for your question, the first thing is to ask what the term "furry" means. If you're going to avoid the label, you first have to define the label.
There's got to be more to it than just anthropomorphized animals, since not every anthropomorphized animal character is considered furry.
There's a very specific aesthetic and subculture associated with it. There's a very specific sexual fetish associated with it. I'm assuming those are the things you want to avoid. Sound about right?
Quote from: Cave Bear;935158...
There's a very specific aesthetic and subculture associated with it. There's a very specific sexual fetish associated with it. I'm assuming those are the things you want to avoid. Sound about right?
Yeah I agree: if the animal characters, especially the female ones, display many human-like "sexy" traits, it sets off certain alarm bells.
To me, that's why Mouse Guard, for example, probably isn't very "furry-friendly": the female characters show very few, if any physical differences from the male ones. It really helps that they all look like actual (well, slightly stylised) bipedal mice, rather than furry people with Disney-esque mouse faces.
Actually, that's a big tell: if Mrs. Brisby from the Secret of NIMH had a very humanoid physique rather than just being a mouse that happens to stand up on its hind legs...
I'm not very good at this though: as a teenager, the only cartoon character that I was attracted to was what's-her-name from Cool World.
But then again, TONE is a big thing. I doubt that there are furries out there jacking off to Watership Down and Maus. At least I hope that they fucking aren't!
Quote from: Cave Bear;935158Neat! What was the compilation?
As for your question, the first thing is to ask what the term "furry" means. If you're going to avoid the label, you first have to define the label.
There's got to be more to it than just anthropomorphized animals, since not every anthropomorphized animal character is considered furry.
There's a very specific aesthetic and subculture associated with it. There's a very specific sexual fetish associated with it. I'm assuming those are the things you want to avoid. Sound about right?
Correct, I wish to avoid being associated with the furry fandom and the furry fetish scene. My ideas for Trench Critters may be a lot of things, but fetishistic they are not. I want to avoid being lumped in with the furry fandom and its more cringeworthy elements. I really want to avoid the subcultural and fetish elements of the furry fandom and I don't want my game to go down those pitfalls. I still want anthropomorphic animals fighting in The Great War though. I might even do a level-based system of classes and races, with the races being based on different species of animals and the classes being various military occupations of the time.
Granted, one of the major aesthetic influences for Trench Critters IS Sonic The Hedgehog, which is popular among furries and is also a target of mockery by internet culture, but I'm a lot more comfortable with Trench Critters being accused of being a "Sonic Recolor RPG" than a "Furry Fetish RPG", even though it is ultimately neither.
And Necrozius, to respond to your post, I do not intend my female characters to have oversexualized features. Cutesy features may be present in both genders, but that's about it. Nothing that is blatantly sexualized or fetishistic.
As for the tone, I'm torn between making Trench Critters a dark comedy setting in the vein of "Looney Tunes" and "Crash Bandicoot", or a very grimdark and Gothic setting in the vein of "Peace on Earth", "Watership Down", and "Maus". I'm actually kind of leaning towards the latter.
Why does it even matter to you?
Fun fact. There are anti furry people who consider ANYTHING with excessive hair a "furry" those on both sides who consider regular animals as "furry" And talking non-anthro animals. And so on. There are people who go around deliberately spreading hate against the furry community just like theres people who do the exact same thing against RPGs. Are you also going to try to get your game labled as not an RPG for fear of being labled a satanist or whatever inane tag the lunatic fringe has going this week?
Just make your damn game.
Of course you can make that kind of rpg without being a furry(fan), but it Will be associated with furries.
There is nothing you can or should do about that matter, but what you can and should do, is see to that it is solid and works as a game by itself.
That's it.
The only "pitfall" into it being referred to as a "furry-game" is using anthropomorphic animals, and that's it!
Of course you should avoid too humanoid-looking animals in any illustrations, especially the tendency to put boobs on females, but that is just plan sense.
Quote from: Omega;935165Why does it even matter to you?
Fun fact. There are anti furry people who consider ANYTHING with excessive hair a "furry" those on both sides who consider regular animals as "furry" And talking non-anthro animals. And so on. There are people who go around deliberately spreading hate against the furry community just like theres people who do the exact same thing against RPGs. Are you also going to try to get your game labled as not an RPG for fear of being labled a satanist or whatever inane tag the lunatic fringe has going this week?
Just make your damn game.
Fair point, maybe I'm overthinking this a bit too much. I'll work on my game now.
If the furries like my game regardless, more power to them. All I want to do is make a good or at least decent World War I-themed RPG with a unique aesthetic.
Quote from: Necrozius;935162I'm not very good at this though: as a teenager, the only cartoon character that I was attracted to was what's-her-name from Cool World.
Holli or Holly.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935154So, I ask you guys, is there any way one can make a game with animal PC's and not be considered "furry" and if so, what pitfalls should you avoid?
Traveller has managed to do it. It was decades before furries even existed as a fetish concept when Aslan and Vargr were introduced into the OTU. Steve Gallacci's Albedo Anthropomorphics did a pretty good job of it as well while avoiding the sexualization.
The trick is, if you are going to make your animals intelligent, then treat them seriously as you would human characters. These beings will think as well as we do, just not in the same way that we do. Uplifted animals will have their own desires, goals, motivations, and general emotional reactions.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935154So, I ask you guys, is there any way one can make a game with animal PC's and not be considered "furry" and if so, what pitfalls should you avoid?
Don't make such characters anthropomorphic is all. That's how I've handle them for Traveller settings.
I've always liked settings with intelligent animals... stuff like the circle of light books and various fairy tales. Anthropomorphics though... not so much, because most of the time they act/ think just like humans and I don't see what they gain by being critters. But I don't worry over the whole 'furry' stigma.
You can certainly do it, even with characters that are humans with fur as opposed to animals with thumbs. Just remember to
1. Avoid Felines
2. Eliminate all Anime sensibility in artwork, etc.
Those two things are responsible for 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of all fur-fucking. :D
Quote from: CRKrueger;9351881. Avoid Felines
Yep. I was reading about some setting yesterday and got to the description of one of the alien races and it read 'cat-like'... and right away that tanked a good portion of my interest, mostly because it seemed like such an bland choice on the part of the author that I'm inclined to suspect the rest of the setting will be similarly un-interesting.
Quote from: Cave Bear;935156Was this one of your sources of inspiration, by any chance?
[video=youtube;d8rCfB8pgKc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rCfB8pgKc[/youtube]
This one was pretty cool. The Americans are rabbits because in Japanese rabbit is usagi or USA GI. :D
Quote from: Necrozius;935162I'm not very good at this though: as a teenager, the only cartoon character that I was attracted to was what's-her-name from Cool World.
Holli Would. If she could.
(http://orig08.deviantart.net/2502/f/2016/232/2/e/holli_would_gif_63_cropped_by_toongod-daelxla.gif)
Quote from: Necrozius;935162I I doubt that there are furries out there jacking off to Watership Down and Maus.
Not all furries are sexual fetishists - for some, their anthropomorphism of animals is more akin to being a character in a Disney movie, so something like
Watership Down is right in their wheelhouse.
Which brings us to
Bunnies & Burrows, the roleplaying game inspired by
Watership Down. If you look at the artwork in the game, there is nothing to suggest sexuality at all - you can't really tell if any given rabbit depicted in the book is male or female. It's about as far from something like
Ironclaw and
Jadeclaw as one can get in terms of the presentation style of the characters in the artwork.
Several years back I ran a Beatrix Potter campaign for some kids I knew... and I never thought of that as a 'furry' game either.
But when I suggested our GM run Ponyfinder for his daughter (who loves MLP) he acted like I'd was implying something pervy...
Quote from: Simlasa;935225Several years back I ran a Beatrix Potter campaign for some kids I knew... and I never thought of that as a 'furry' game either.
But when I suggested our GM run Ponyfinder for his daughter (who loves MLP) he acted like I'd was implying something pervy...
Can you blame him?
Quote from: CRKrueger;935226Can you blame him?
Well, I don't actually know much about Ponyfinder... is there something pervy about it? I just assumed it was a magical pony game, and he likes/runs Pathfinder... so it would be a match.
To summarize:
For furry haters: anything based on intelligent animals is bad.
For furries: anything with intelligent animals is furries.
For everyone else: if you don't make the females look like supermodels (human breasts) or the males like Chippendale dancers, you will probably avoid the furry fetish label.
Well, it's not the same as saying "Hey your daughter likes Princess Mononoke, why not play Maid with her?" but MLP crossed with RPGs though has a definite Brony stench that might make any reasonable father reach for that shotgun he didn't think he'd have to start cleaning on the porch until she started dating. :D
Quote from: CRKrueger;935254Well, it's not the same as saying "Hey your daughter likes Princess Mononoke, why not play Maid with her?" but MLP crossed with RPGs though has a definite Brony stench that might make any reasonable father reach for that shotgun he didn't think he'd have to start cleaning on the porch until she started dating. :D
....And by that you are kind of implying that Ponyfinder is indeed like Maid or at least like one of the more gruesome areas of .... was it Exalted?
Sooooo.... "brony stench", well, among the weird things that I count myself as, "Brony" is one of them.
I understand the reaction though, considering how too many see the Bronies with the same "this is perversion"-glasses that furry-haters see furries with and spreads the highly selective information to others when they can.
I could go on a rant about how all fanbases has naughty sides, or link a bunch of videos that say the same thing.
But I won't, as I shouldn't have to.
EDIT:
...... Sorry, kind of overreacted, I did not really notice that :D you finished with.
XD
Doc Sammy, make the game that brings you joy.
Do it fearlessly and without concern for online tempests in a teacup.
Trench Critters sounds fun. Keep us informed.
And now I read the title and immediately thought, just use "naked mice" that are engineered to be immunosuppressant and have no fur...
Quote from: CRKrueger;935254Well, it's not the same as saying "Hey your daughter likes Princess Mononoke, why not play Maid with her?" but MLP crossed with RPGs though has a definite Brony stench that might make any reasonable father reach for that shotgun he didn't think he'd have to start cleaning on the porch until she started dating. :D
Well, as the father of a daughter, I reached for the shotgun once I knew a dude was showing up. Then again, it's Texas. I reach for a shotgun to pick my teeth.:-)
Quote from: cranebump;935303Well, as the father of a daughter, I reached for the shotgun once I knew a dude was showing up. Then again, it's Texas. I reach for a shotgun to pick my teeth.:-)
and I'm guessing if a 30 year old man wearing a My Little Pony T-shirt walked across your doorstep to play Ponyfinder with your daughter, he'd be leaving rather quickly, propelled backwards by said toothpick. Which of course is probably legal in Texas. :D
I once played a badger in a session of a fur-bearing RPG (Ironclaw? Something-"Claw"?) at a local gaming club. I only later learned that the GM and a couple of the other players were lifestyle Furries. Nothing overtly sexual or wierd ever came up in the game. It was just a fun, light-hearted, fairy-tale-ish game. I would have played it again if I had the chance.
Creepy games come from creepozoid players, not the game's subject matter.
Quote from: CRKrueger;935340and I'm guessing if a 30 year old man wearing a My Little Pony T-shirt walked across your doorstep to play Ponyfinder with your daughter, he'd be leaving rather quickly, propelled backwards by said toothpick. Which of course is probably legal in Texas. :D
I imagine it is. I mean, we shoot our mouths off, too, so shooting is just an issue. Of course, we are all concerned about shooting prematurely...:D
Question: What essential thing do anthropomorphized animals bring to the campaign experience that cannot be replicated in a human?
Answer that and you have a good buffer to focus upon.
Dwarves, elves, et alia, are designed to be approachable (sympathetic) aliens whose origins and cultural differences are the emphasis of in-play friction. This friction may be in the foreground or background, but it is present to be meaningful.
So, same question to sapient, anthropomorphized animals: what do they bring to the campaign that is necessary beyond a palette swap and a sprinkling of modifiers?
Is it to make the pathos of WWI trench warfare immediately palatable, yet still affecting, for younger audiences, a la Watership Down? (Possibly a bit traumatizing, but not an untrod line of past creativity. An American Tale does similar for the Ellis Island immigrant experience.)
Or is it to soften the violence for the adults playing into palatable abstractions, because there is such a thing as too grim & ghastly? (Animal Farm and the like fits here; a spoonful of anthropomorphized animal makes the medicine go down.)
Or does your group have a rather mutually hated animal, like female mosquitoes or baby harp seals, and this is a pleasant form of harmless escapism?
Only you can answer this. However notice if the answer seems necessary for play beyond looks and widgets. Honestly assess whether it draws up useful gameable material, makes digestible the controversial, or is simply pornographic, (in the Victorian sense.)
If it only services shallow, sensational interests, is it such a stretch it will do so for prurient ones? Dig deeper!
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935163I wish to avoid being associated with the furry fandom and the furry fetish scene.
Then don't use 'furry' as a fetish. Have a reason for furries to be present other than 'just because'.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935163Granted, one of the major aesthetic influences for Trench Critters IS Sonic The Hedgehog,
...on second thought, you're doomed either way :)
For myself, I don't feel that that anthropomorphized animals - or any other fictional choice - need justification. "Just because" is a perfectly good reason to me for dwarves, elves, aarakocra, mutant powers, ducks, shoggoths, and more. While it is possible to go into meta-analysis about why shoggoths rather than yeti - I think as a creator, it's fine to just imagine up weird stuff and run with it.
As far as Trench Critters goes... The idea of a grimdark and Gothic setting in the vein of "Peace on Earth", "Watership Down", and "Maus" seems potentially interesting, but I am curious more about what makes it cool to you? For one, how historical is it? Maus is strictly historical about WWII, while Watership Down is ostensibly not about human history at all.
Here's another reason to run with Trench Critters: furries are good customers.
BronyCon which is just My Little Pony fans (not all Furdom) had 7,609 attendees in 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BronyCon
That's their 8th year!!!
How many RPG only cons have that attendance?
None.
There are only a handful of Tabletop Gaming Cons which have equal or greater numbers.
Doc Sammy, wear your fur suit with pride!! Your fans have money burning in their pocket.
Quote from: Spinachcat;935564Here's another reason to run with Trench Critters: furries are good customers.
BronyCon which is just My Little Pony fans (not all Furdom) had 7,609 attendees in 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BronyCon
That's their 8th year!!!
How many RPG only cons have that attendance?
None.
There are only a handful of Tabletop Gaming Cons which have equal or greater numbers.
Doc Sammy, wear your fur suit with pride!! Your fans have money burning in their pocket.
Furries could be a good audience that will inevitably be attracted to a work like Trench Critters, so there is that.
Overall, I am very fascinated with World War I as of late (it may have something to do with the ongoing WWI Centennial) and I came up with the idea to make one of the most horrific and underrepresented wars in human history become more palatable to an audience as World War I was a senseless and horrific war. While World War II was even bloodier, the Allies had the clear moral high ground over the Axis and most people feel that it was a just war, so you see a lot of movies and games about it, unlike the more morally ambiguous and senseless World War I.
Animal Farm (one of my favorite books from when I was a teenager) is an inspiration, as is The Wind In The Willows (one of my favorite books from when I was a child). It's not just Sonic The Hedgehog and old cartoons. There's some quality literary influences involved in the design for Trench Critters.
I love anthroporphic animal fiction, but I'm not into "furry" fandom at all. I have written several anthropomorphic animal rpgs - Tales from the Wood (basically "real" intelligent animals in the British countryside, in the style of Duncton Wood, Watership Down, Hunters Moon, the Kine Saga and others), It's a Dog's Life (prairie dogs, with a little magic, a bit more fantasy but otherwise similar but set on the plains of North America) and Woodland Warriors (basically medieval fantasy with animals - so moles are "dwarves", squirrels are "elves" and so on, much more in a Redwall style, where the beasts are clothed and use tools and weapons). I'm currently working on a second edition. I haven't really found a problem with these games - probably because the animals are all very clearly animals; there are no "sexy" pics of half girl/half cat (like say, Albedo) and so it's pretty clear that isn't what the games are about.
Anyway, Trench Critters sounds fun, so I'd like to see it.
No. It is inherently deviant.
Fucking Bronies. Gamers have a bad enough rep already without bringing fucking Bronies into it.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;935601No. It is inherently deviant.
Fucking Bronies. Gamers have a bad enough rep already without bringing fucking Bronies into it.
I'm with you up to a point. I fucking hate Bronies and MLP with all of my heart.
But you can do an RPG with animal characters without being furry or brony, as long as it's more like Watership Down or The Wind In The Willows and not like Ironclaw, the Fursona series, or God forbid, MLP.
Trench Critters can basically be summed up as "The Wind In The Willows with machine guns and mustard gas."
Quote from: Simon W;935600I have written several anthropomorphic animal rpgs - Tales from the Wood (basically "real" intelligent animals in the British countryside, in the style of Duncton Wood, Watership Down, Hunters Moon, the Kine Saga and others), It's a Dog's Life (prairie dogs, with a little magic, a bit more fantasy but otherwise similar but set on the plains of North America) and Woodland Warriors (basically medieval fantasy with animals - so moles are "dwarves", squirrels are "elves" and so on, much more in a Redwall style, where the beasts are clothed and use tools and weapons).
I'd kept meaning to bring up Tales From The Wood. A good game and just the sort of PCs as animals game I DO like
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935602Trench Critters can basically be summed up as "The Wind In The Willows with machine guns and mustard gas."
Oh... well putting it that way goes a bit farther towards grabbing my interest.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935602I'm with you up to a point. I fucking hate Bronies and MLP with all of my heart.
But you can do an RPG with animal characters without being furry or brony, as long as it's more like Watership Down or The Wind In The Willows and not like Ironclaw, the Fursona series, or God forbid, MLP.
Trench Critters can basically be summed up as "The Wind In The Willows with machine guns and mustard gas."
I'm a brony, a furry, and I don't like mlp per se, what I REALLY like is FiM, that is Friendship is Magic.
I mainly agree with you on the rest, but I have to make an important note:
Ponyfinder, made by Bronies, based on Pathfinder, seem to have mainly or only naturalistic illustrations as well:
The ponies mat be colourful, but they look like ponies and other horses, no mlp-art from what I know, and most definitely not any indecent art.
Trench critters do seem like a great concept.
Quote from: Spinachcat;935564Here's another reason to run with Trench Critters: furries are good customers.
BronyCon which is just My Little Pony fans (not all Furdom) had 7,609 attendees in 2016
Bronies are not Furries, nor vice-versa.
There is a notable overlap, but it is still not the same thing.
* Furries likes anthropomorphic animals, a lot may consider the ponies not to be humanoid enough, much preferring the Disney and Warner Brother styles.
* Bronies likes the show "Friendship is Magic", its aesthetics, animation, story, characters and/or music.
That is why I call myself both, as I like both things.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935602Trench Critters can basically be summed up as "The Wind In The Willows with machine guns and mustard gas."
Have you read The Builders? Fantastic dark comedy with animal characters and a whole lot of weaponry. The reason for animals is mostly for laughs, but also used well to make its large cast of characters easily identifiable. The badger is big and brutish, the stoat is cruel and sneaky, the mole is, well, a mole.
For what it's worth, I don't think it becomes furry unless you make it furry. I think furries are some of the saddest sacks on the internet, but I love Watership Down, the Wind in the Willows, Secret of NIMH, Mouse Guard, even a game like Armello with its more anthropomorphous animals. Don't really associate any of it with furries cause there's nothing fetishistic about the tone of any of them.
I guess furry is like obscenity, you know it when you see it.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935154Okay, this is probably a loaded question that will probably result in a loaded discussion on both sides of the aisle, but I have a serious question.
I've recently come up with an idea for a dark comedy RPG where the PC's are anthropomorphic woodland creatures in a World War I setting (I call it "Trench Critters"), but I'm afraid of actually doing anything with it because I don't want to be lumped in with the rather infamous furry fandom. And that got me thinking, in this day and age of internet culture, can you make a work with animal characters without being labeled as "furry"? I'm serious here, because I like my WWI idea, but I'm afraid of getting a lot of hatred and being labeled something I'm not.
There are actual dedicated furry RPG's such as Ironclaw and the Fursona series, and they are widely mocked and hated for the most part (generally justified in the case of the Fursona series, given the rest of Chris A. Field's work). I don't want Trench Critters to be lumped in with those works. It doesn't help that my idea was very loosely inspired by Looney Tunes, Sonic The Hedgehog, and Crash Bandicoot, so I'm afraid of even developing this idea as a campaign, let alone a full game. Even non-furry RPG's such as Werewolf: The Apocalypse and the TMNT game get a lot of flak because of the furries.
So, I ask you guys, is there any way one can make a game with animal PC's and not be considered "furry" and if so, what pitfalls should you avoid?
Please keep this discussion civil.
I think the first thing you should do is not caring whether anyone labels it "a furry RPG":).
That, and I'd consider making it a game about reptiloides. Most furries I've seen are into mammals, with the occasional "dragon-lover" (don't ask me how that works, I haven't inquired and would probably prefer to remain ignorant:D).
But a game about lizards and frogs going to war
might well achieve the same effect you're looking for. And if anyone calls it "a furry game", you can just mock him or her saying that none of your PCs actually have fur (and that most furries wouldn't find the PCs attractive). What are they going to call it then, "a scaly RPG";)?
Or, if you can't accept the idea that someone might still consider you a furry, drop it. Because unless the PCs are humanoids or robots, someone would make the connection;).
BTW, while I guess Ironclaw is a furry game, it's also got better mechanics than some non-furry games;).
And as a last point, let's not forget that from the POV of a game author, furries are probably just "paying customers":D!
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935154I have a serious question...
my idea was very loosely inspired by Looney Tunes, Sonic The Hedgehog, and Crash Bandicoot
Nope, nope, nope....
(shuts door behinds him as he walks away)
Quote from: Tristram Evans;935653Nope, nope, nope....
(shuts door behinds him as he walks away)
To be fair, that was how it started, but now Trench Critters is looking a lot more like "The Wind In The Willows" and less like "Sonic The Hedgehog".
Quote from: Catelf;935611I'm a brony, a furry
See, OP? The mere mention of the possibility of such a game brings the weirdoes out, like lice falling off a beaten rug.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935666To be fair, that was how it started, but now Trench Critters is looking a lot more like "The Wind In The Willows" and less like "Sonic The Hedgehog".
You should base it on [video=youtube;X8f4y51qC6M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8f4y51qC6M[/youtube], for added realism
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;935667See, OP? The mere mention of the possibility of such a game brings the weirdoes out, like lice falling off a beaten rug.
Eh, anything can attract weirdos. Just because I like "The Wind In The Willows" or "Peace on Earth" doesn't mean I'm a furry, even if the furries also like it.
Though MLP: Friendship Is Magic is utter crap in my opinion.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;935667See, OP? The mere mention of the possibility of such a game brings the weirdoes out, like lice falling off a beaten rug.
Jesus Christ man, were you saving up your asshole chips to spend them all at once?
Quote from: Tristram Evans;935653Nope, nope, nope....
(shuts door behinds him as he walks away)
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;935667See, OP? The mere mention of the possibility of such a game brings the weirdoes out, like lice falling off a beaten rug.
Quote from: Tristram Evans;935672
Jesus Christ man, were you saving up your asshole chips to spend them all at once?
This is what I like with you, Tristram, you call bullshit as you see it.
:D
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935669Eh, anything can attract weirdos. Just because I like "The Wind In The Willows" or "Peace on Earth" doesn't mean I'm a furry, even if the furries also like it.
Though MLP: Friendship Is Magic is utter crap in my opinion.
That's fair, I don't mind.
I do mind when Bronies and Furries as groups is being referred to as perverts, fetishists and generally despicable people though, as far from all of them are involved in yiffing, clopping, or even in dressing up.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935669Eh, anything can attract weirdos.
But some things attract more weirdoes than others.
Pundit's always been worried about "the Swine" taking over roleplaying. I've always been more worried about the perverts and non-gaming collectors.
Quote from: Tod13;935280And now I read the title and immediately thought, just use "naked mice" that are engineered to be immunosuppressant and have no fur...
Or genetically engineered lab mice bent on world domination.
Quote from: Catelf;935685clopping
I don't even want to know, do I?
Must...not...google...oh goddamn it (https://mlpforums.com/blog/268/entry-1978-clopping-ethical-behavior-or-no/)
Hulk clop! :eek:
For almost anything that doesn't harm somebody, I am pretty much live and let live (or more honestly, live and let die). Every Brony I've met has been happy to identify as a Furry, but I've only met 2 Furries who were into yiffing and they were both Wiccan goth chicks. One of them was a freak of the week and the other was in the danger zone of the Crazy/Hot scale.
But all other Furries and Bronies, even the LARPer and Cosplay ones have been perfectly fine gamer types. As far as my real world experience has gone, I do not see any reason to demonize or label these fellow gamers, any more than you'd demonize anime fans, mecha fans or that dude who always plays elves...even in games without elves.
If I were publishing Trench Critters, there is no question that I'd place an ad in the BronyCon booklet.
Quote from: CRKrueger;935719I don't even want to know, do I?
Must...not...google...oh goddamn it (https://mlpforums.com/blog/268/entry-1978-clopping-ethical-behavior-or-no/)
You could have waited for my response.
For those who did, it is the act of fapping to cartoon ponies, frequently pin-up or more vulgar pictures of somewhat more anthropomorphised versions of them.
EDIT:
The article CRK linked is pretty good, by the way, if you are able to read it all.
Mental illness has more forms than i was aware of.
Quote from: Spinachcat;935723Hulk clop! :eek:
Eww, that's not an image I wanted in the morning!
QuoteAs far as my real world experience has gone, I do not see any reason to demonize or label these fellow gamers, any more than you'd demonize anime fans, mecha fans or that dude who always plays elves...even in games without elves.
Fuck that dude with an white-hot poker:D!
QuoteIf I were publishing Trench Critters, there is no question that I'd place an ad in the BronyCon booklet.
Of course, that would be capitalism in action;)!
Quote from: Spinachcat;935723If I were publishing Trench Critters, there is no question that I'd place an ad in the BronyCon booklet.
As much as I dislike the whole Brony phenomenon, I'd be a fool not to do something like this!
Who cares if furries or bronies like Trench Critters? To me, they're just another group of my future paying customers!
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935737As much as I dislike the whole Brony phenomenon, I'd be a fool not to do something like this!
Who cares if furries or bronies like Trench Critters? To me, they're just another group of my future paying customers!
Money is the only language that matters so that is a good view to take. Sounds like fun.
Submitted for your approval: Out of the top 10 grossing films worldwide in 2016, 5 were comic book adaptations, 4 were about anthropomorphic animals, and one about either a mermaid assassin or Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them.
And here you are, worried about looking like a pervert :P
Quote from: jhkim;935539"Just because" is a perfectly good reason to me for dwarves, elves, aarakocra, mutant powers, ducks, shoggoths, and more.
Mmm nope, can't think of a single case where using the elements you mention 'just because' led to anything other than a shallow fetishistic experience.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;935601Fucking Bronies. Gamers have a bad enough rep already without bringing fucking Bronies into it.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935602I fucking hate Bronies and MLP with all of my heart.
Don't know why, as they're the kindest and most charitable fandom I've encountered. I especially like how they're not obsessed with how gamers appear.
Quote from: Tristram Evans;935672Jesus Christ man, were you saving up your asshole chips to spend them all at once?
...
WE GET ASSHOLE CHIPS?!?
Quote from: Spinachcat;935723but I've only met 2 Furries who were into yiffing and they were both Wiccan goth chicks. One of them was a freak of the week and the other was in the danger zone of the Crazy/Hot scale.
My kind of witchcraft.
Quote from: One Horse Town;935734Mental illness has more forms than i was aware of.
Believing mental illness exists is a mental illness.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935737Who cares if furries or bronies like Trench Critters? To me, they're just another group of my future paying customers!
Though maybe not after reading your posts here :)
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;935768Though maybe not after reading your posts here :)
Fair point
Y'know, at this point in this topic's progression I look back at my contribution and reconsider. No, no I do not think it can be done any longer. Some doors once open cannot be shut.
(I now wholly suspect slash fiction or deviant art for every cartoon I have ever watched. Somewhere our there is a lusty tangle of Huckleberry and Snagglepuss while a voyeur Muttley sniggers on, and another as Snarf and Orko are doing it dangling from chandeliers, equally terrified of heights and their own budding sexuality. All animals and cartoons are now unintended porn fodder, regardless of past context, even down to tapeworms, red blood cells, and amoeba.)
If there is Maus porn out there, I truly weep for humanity.
(For those unfamiliar with it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus ).
Quote from: Necrozius;935864If there is Maus porn out there, I truly weep for humanity.
(For those unfamiliar with it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus ).
Google found lots of titles, but I was unwilling to investigate further and get visual confirmation;).
Quote from: AsenRG;935871Google found lots of titles, but I was unwilling to investigate further and get visual confirmation;).
"Necrozius silently vomited and shut down his PC..."
Maybe I shouldn't have made this thread, given the horrors that have unwittingly been unleashed....
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935875Maybe I shouldn't have made this thread, given the horrors that have unwittingly been unleashed....
Nah. Seeing people get squicked out over things that don't exist is amusing.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;935711Or genetically engineered lab mice bent on world domination.
"What shall we do tonight?"
Quote from: Necrozius;935864If there is Maus porn out there, I truly weep for humanity.
(For those unfamiliar with it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus ).
Quote from: Opaopajr;935860Y'know, at this point in this topic's progression I look back at my contribution and reconsider. No, no I do not think it can be done any longer. Some doors once open cannot be shut.
(I now wholly suspect slash fiction or deviant art for every cartoon I have ever watched. Somewhere our there is a lusty tangle of Huckleberry and Snagglepuss while a voyeur Muttley sniggers on, and another as Snarf and Orko are doing it dangling from chandeliers, equally terrified of heights and their own budding sexuality. All animals and cartoons are now unintended porn fodder, regardless of past context, even down to tapeworms, red blood cells, and amoeba.)
Rule 34: If its exists there is porn of it. No Exceptions.
Law of Quantum Perversion corollary: If porn of the subject did not previously exist then the mere act of asking if it exists will cause such porn to recursively come into being including at least one fansite and community forum that will appear to have been extant for years.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935737As much as I dislike the whole Brony phenomenon, I'd be a fool not to do something like this!
Who cares if furries or bronies like Trench Critters? To me, they're just another group of my future paying customers!
Dolla Dolla bill, ya'll.
It worked for Hot Chicks.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;935768WE GET ASSHOLE CHIPS?!?
Sounds like a bad GI or hygiene condition...
Actually. I can't think of a take on the phrase "Asshole chips" that would be something you'd want...
It is ironic how eager some adults, approaching or well into middle age that still play Let's Pretend on a regular basis are to get on high horse and pearl clutch over others what other weirdos are doing in their free time. :D
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935875Maybe I shouldn't have made this thread, given the horrors that have unwittingly been unleashed....
Now you know how characters in a Lovecraft story feel, if Lovecraft wrote a story about plush-Cthulhu performing tentacle sodomy.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;935902Now you know how characters in a Lovecraft story feel, if Lovecraft wrote a story about plush-Cthulhu performing tentacle sodomy.
Based on the Avatar, I'd say that wouldn't be considered Horror, but Tuesday. ;)
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935875Maybe I shouldn't have made this thread, given the horrors that have unwittingly been unleashed....
Too late. Now you'll have to fight the thread in a burning windmill. Or be hunted down into arctic by it...or something.
Quote from: Nexus;935901I can't think of a take on the phrase "Asshole chips" that would be something you'd want...
I don't know. I mean #Trump is The Leader of the Free World™ and worth billions. Then again, side effects include small hands, hair loss, and autistic children.
Also the destruction of the Free World™ :P
Quote from: Nexus;935901It is ironic how eager some adults, approaching or well into middle age that still play Let's Pretend on a regular basis are to get on high horse and pearl clutch over others what other weirdos are doing in their free time. :D
I've concluded two thing have ruined the internet. The first is that people take themselves
waaay too seriously. The second is, well, sorta this.
I don't game to appeal to or validate anyone else, and I wish people stopped demanding I do.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;935875Maybe I shouldn't have made this thread, given the horrors that have unwittingly been unleashed....
You are not responsible for any of that -- unless you write said slash or make said art. Make it anyway. Just understand everything you make will be violated (or maybe consensually titillated? :rolleyes:) through its various orifices and sensitive ganglia.
Quote from: Nexus;935895Rule 34: If its exists there is porn of it. No Exceptions.
Law of Quantum Perversion corollary: If porn of the subject did not previously exist then the mere act of asking if it exists will cause such porn to recursively come into being including at least one fansite and community forum that will appear to have been extant for years.
Somewhere out there is a fansite and forum dedicated to McLaughlin Group lemon parties, with cameos by Mr. Magoo.
So shall it be written, so shall it be done! Et cetera et cetera et cetera...
Quote from: Opaopajr;935930Somewhere out there is a fansite and forum dedicated to McLaughlin Group lemon parties, with cameos by Mr. Magoo.
So shall it be written, so shall it be done! Et cetera et cetera et cetera...
Sigh...I had to google "lemon party". Who the hell thinks this shit up? I think it's about half past time for an Extinction Level Event.
Giant Meteor was up for election. Yet you all didn't clap hard enough for Tinkerbell. So we all gotta suck it up, buttercup. :D
edit: Oooh! Does Giant Meteor have porn for it yet? :cool:
Quote from: Opaopajr;935950edit: Oooh! Does Giant Meteor have porn for it yet? :cool:
One was featured prominently in a Zelda game once, so yeah, probably.
Quote from: NexusIt is ironic how eager some adults, approaching or well into middle age that still play Let's Pretend on a regular basis are to get on high horse and pearl clutch over others what other weirdos are doing in their free time.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;935925I've concluded two thing have ruined the internet. The first is that people take themselves waaay too seriously. The second is, well, sorta this.
I don't game to appeal to or validate anyone else, and I wish people stopped demanding I do.
But... what I do is awesome and not weird. It's what other people do that is weird and worthy of scorn! /sarcasm
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;935925I don't know. I mean #Trump is The Leader of the Free World™ and worth billions. Then again, side effects include small hands, hair loss, and autistic children.
Also the destruction of the Free World™ :P
I've concluded two thing have ruined the internet. The first is that people take themselves waaay too seriously. The second is, well, sorta this.
I don't game to appeal to or validate anyone else, and I wish people stopped demanding I do.
Whut?
It's quite possible that there is no Giant Meteor porn. All I could find was Pokémon getting jiggy.
Quote from: Krimson;935982It's quite possible that there is no Giant Meteor porn. All I could find was Pokémon getting jiggy.
Googled it, and turns out "Giant Meteor" is the screen name of an incredibly popular gay male porn star.
Quote from: Tristram Evans;935995Googled it, and turns out "Giant Meteor" is the screen name of an incredibly popular gay male porn star.
I guess I didn't look hard enough. Or perhaps I just stopped at the right time. :P
Quote from: Tristram Evans;935995Googled it, and turns out "Giant Meteor" is the screen name of an incredibly popular gay male porn star.
There's a teabagging joke in there that might qualify as an extinction level event... ;)
Quote from: Opaopajr;936085There's a teabagging joke in there that might qualify as an extinction level event... ;)
This is the way the world ends; not with a bang but testicular pun...
Quote from: Tristram Evans;935995. . . [T]urns out "Giant Meteor" is the screen name of an incredibly popular gay male porn star.
Giant meatier?
Quote from: Black Vulmea;936130Giant meatier?
(https://ci.memecdn.com/8963613.jpg)
Quote from: Black Vulmea;935902Now you know how characters in a Lovecraft story feel, if Lovecraft wrote a story about plush-Cthulhu performing tentacle sodomy.
The difference is, the protagonists in HPL's stories generally don't think it's awesome;).
Quote from: CRKrueger;935944Sigh...I had to google "lemon party". Who the hell thinks this shit up? I think it's about half past time for an Extinction Level Event.
I'd have to Google "McLaughlin Group", "lemon parties", and "Mr. Magoo".
I started with "lemon parties" and decided against googling the rest of them:D.
I just found it hilarious that the first page mentions The Secret of NIMH as something that isn't furry because the animals don't look human enough, given that I very recently listened to a podcast called The Sewers of Paris which is about gay men and the pop culture that influenced them in their childhood, and one episode was about a furry and the very first thing he brought up was The Secret of NIMH and how dreamy Justin, the rat Captain of the Guard was.
Rule 34c: If it exists somewhere, someone is getting off on it.
Quote from: Opaopajr;935950edit: Oooh! Does Giant Meteor have porn for it yet? :cool:
Hmm. Futurama (season 1, episode 8) had a giant garbage ball in space, and the information on the internet about it turned out to be porn. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0584423/quotes?item=qt0414048)
Quote from: rawma;937046Hmm. Futurama (season 1, episode 8) had a giant garbage ball in space, and the information on the internet about it turned out to be porn. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0584423/quotes?item=qt0414048)
Eh... close enough. :D
Quote from: rawma;937046Hmm. Futurama (season 1, episode 8) had a giant garbage ball in space, and the information on the internet about it turned out to be porn. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0584423/quotes?item=qt0414048)
I guess that kind of counts. :D
Okay, so I think the OP should just make the game they want to make. I mean, go ahead and type
Planet of the Apes Rule 34. That doesn't mean that Apes Victorious isn't a cool game, it's just that on the internet nothing is sacred. Nothing.
Yo Doc "Furfucker" Sammy!
What else do you have to share with us about Trench Critters?
System? How gritty? What's the role of the Trench Critter PC vs. fellow NPC critters in battle?
Is it going to be Europe 1911?
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;935768WE GET ASSHOLE CHIPS?!?
Yes we do! Unless you're British. They get butthole crisps.
It's a cultural thing.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;935961But... what I do is awesome and not weird. It's what other people do that is weird and worthy of scorn!
So true!
Quote from: Spinachcat;937080Yo Doc "Furfucker" Sammy!
What else do you have to share with us about Trench Critters?
System? How gritty? What's the role of the Trench Critter PC vs. fellow NPC critters in battle?
Is it going to be Europe 1911?
Yes we do! Unless you're British. They get butthole crisps.
It's a cultural thing.
So true!
I'm still working on it, I took a break from it because of the holidays but I can resume work on the actual system soon.
Quote from: Spinachcat;937080Yo Doc "Furfucker" Sammy!
Ok, that's a good official nickname. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue. Let's go with "The Jersey Furfucker".
Quote from: CRKrueger;937099Ok, that's a good official nickname. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue. Let's go with "The Jersey Furfucker".
But I'm not a furry.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;937115But I'm not a furry.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;937115But I'm not a furry.
Says the guy wearing the fursuit! :)
Enjoy the holiday and keep up the work on Trench Critters. Definitely looking forward to more thoughts on it. I like the idea of a dedicated setting focus / clear theme in the game.
Also, hopefully you'll be living on the Jersey shore by June in time for half naked guido season!
Quote from: Black Vulmea;937124Yeah, keep telling yourself that.
If Doc Sammy claim to not be a furry, then Doc Sammy isn't a Furry.
It's as simple as that.
And it isn't even because of the claim that all furries want to have sex with anthropomorphic animals, or dress up as such, because that is not true and have not ever been true.
No.
It is because of two things:
1: Personal Integrity of how one wants to define oneself.
and
2: The focus of one's interest.
#1 could be questioned, admittedly, but it is still important.
#2 however, is more factual based.
Doc Sammy may have originated as a bit of a sonic-fan, but not even those are automatically furries, as they like the specific aesthetics of the sonic games, animation series, and comics, as well as the characters therein.
The focus is this on the Sonic aesthetics, not the matter that sonic is an anthro hedgehog.
He has also gone from that to "less anthro" forms, like Beatrix Potter, Secret of NIMH, and so on.
And if he did so due to the series that was the inspiration for his rpg, then his current focus is that series and that game, not the direct fancy for anthropomorphic animals.
Thus, he is NOT a Furry.
Is it possible that he will eventually prove to be interested in the aesthetics and idea of anthropomorphic animal characters themselves?
Yes, but it is also possible he won't.
It is up to him to notice that if there is any, or not if there actually isn't.
EDIT:
By the way, while writing this response, I was somehow logged out (it has happened before during writing responses), and when I tried to log in again, it somehow claimed it was a failed attempt. Twice.
I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but I rarely gather enough ... initiative, to post this where I should.
I'm not even sure if it is a bug or a "feature".
Quote from: Catelf;937127. . . snipped display of high dudgeon . . .
I'm just busting his balls, Catelf. Calm the fuck down.
If you or Sammy or anyone else chooses to identify as 'furry,' I honestly couldn't care less, as long as you fucking pervs stay at least five hundred feet from my kids.*
* And since your identity is so tightly wrapped in this nonsense, I won't leave it to chance and just tell you straight up, now I'm busting your fuzzy little balls. As far as you know.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;937144I'm just busting his balls, Catelf. Calm the fuck down.
If you or Sammy or anyone else chooses to identify as 'furry,' I honestly couldn't care less, as long as you fucking pervs stay at least five hundred feet from my kids.*
* And since your identity is so tightly wrapped in this nonsense, I won't leave it to chance and just tell you straight up, now I'm busting your fuzzy little balls. As far as you know.
Oh, you do know that sarcasm and joking of that kind is indeed hard to convey over the net without saying it right out, right?
So it's good to actually know that you are just busting hairballs, as some that might say similar or the same things might actually mean it, sadly.
I mean like: we all know D&D encourages demon summoning, right?:p
Quote from: Catelf;937160So it's good to actually know that you are just busting hairballs . . .
(https://media.giphy.com/media/122eu1lNe6psNq/giphy.gif)
That's the spirit, C. :)
Quote from: Black Vulmea;937144I'm just busting his balls, Catelf. Calm the fuck down.
Hey, why make assumptions about gender? Not every furry identifies with having balls. On the other hand some identify with having several sets...
...but seriously the fact this form of sarcasm is no longer recognized by the new majority is the #1 absolutely foundational reason the internet is such an intolerable shithole at this point. People don't actually
know what to take seriously anymore.
Quote from: Catelf;937160Oh, you do know that sarcasm and joking of that kind is indeed hard to convey over the net without saying it right out, right?
So it's good to actually know that you are just busting hairballs, as some that might say similar or the same things might actually mean it, sadly.
Yeah, it is and when someone's normal posting tone is aggressive and abrasive its can be even harder to tell when they're joking.
Quote from: Nexus;937180Yeah, it is and when someone's normal posting tone is aggressive and abrasive its can be even harder to tell when they're joking.
How could anyone write the pigshit I post and NOT be taking the piss?
Quote from: Black Vulmea;937182How could anyone write the pigshit I post and NOT be taking the piss?
I know, right?
I changed my name to 'Scurrilous' on tbp to clarify my tone. It didn't help.
Well, if you guys are just busting my balls, then you can call me whatever you like. I'll keep working on Trench Critters.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;937221Well, if you guys are just busting my balls, then you can call me whatever you like. I'll keep working on Trench Critters.
Just remember you are being ridiculed by a group of people that can be identified by smell.
Quote from: Krimson;937271Just remember you are being ridiculed by a group of people that can be identified by smell.
..and yet, of all the wonderful places on the internet where you could be hobnobbing with fellow superiors, you end up posting
here. What happened...your whole "Capitalism is the pinnacle of Human Endeavors" schtick not go over well on awfulpurple? ;)
Quote from: CRKrueger;937273..and yet, of all the wonderful places on the internet where you could be hobnobbing with fellow superiors, you end up posting here. What happened...your whole "Capitalism is the pinnacle of Human Endeavors" schtick not go over well on awfulpurple? ;)
Oksy, I'm going to pretend that you just wrote something coherent. The words appear English. Remember, on the Internet you don't have to smell people and I don't have to qualify my statement because every single gamer who has been to a convention knows that Gamer Stank is a real thing. This is why if I have to choose between a gaming and anime convention, I'll pick the latter every single time. Especially in the summer.
I may just be cranky, but this looks like the conversation has very little to do with actual RPGs. Closed.