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What is the sinister secret of Saltmarsh?

Started by Aglondir, August 06, 2020, 11:23:52 PM

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HappyDaze

Quote from: S'mon;1143844There's not much flammable in there either, and the climate is humid coastal; if GMing it I'd require a pretty big bonfire to burn the place down.

The create bonfire cantrip can be used at will and creates a sustained 5-foot cube of magical fore. Then add oil. Lots of oil.

David Johansen

Quote from: HappyDaze;1143834Hell yeah! Oh, were you being facetious?  It's so hard to tell around here when everyone's so full of it.

Besides, the house has almost 0 alchemical crap and 0 ghosts (it has a few skeletons though), so there's no chemical fire/explosion unless it's one of those narrative type game masters that feels the need to screw with the PCs because "story."

I'm the DM and it has whatever I want it to have and the wind is blowing in whatever direction I say it is.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

HappyDaze

Quote from: David Johansen;1143853I'm the DM and it has whatever I want it to have and the wind is blowing in whatever direction I say it is.

If you decide that ahead of time, then sure. If you decide it just to thwart them because it fits your story better, then you're a shitty narrativist.

VisionStorm

Quote from: HappyDaze;1143858If you decide that ahead of time, then sure. If you decide it just to thwart them because it fits your story better, then you're a shitty narrativist.

Mine is full of highly volatile chemical substances and the ghosts of the smugglers, who thought that the house had been abandoned, but were in for a rude awakening when the alchemist came back as a lich to ruin their tax evading operation and poison bombed the entire house with noxious gas bombs to snuff them out, and laughed at them as they choked on the poison gasses, to which he was immune to on account of being undead.

Now the group has unleashed a fiery explosion full of noxious chemicals making their way to town, along with the ghosts of the dead smugglers, who are no longer tethered to the now destroyed house, as well as a pissed off lich who wants revenge. Congrats! :p

David Johansen

Quote from: HappyDaze;1143858If you decide that ahead of time, then sure. If you decide it just to thwart them because it fits your story better, then you're a shitty narrativist.

Nah, but if they refuse to engage with the fun, the fun will engage with them.  If your PCs deliberately go off map you just have to improvise.  It's not about story, it's about working with what they give you.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

HappyDaze

Quote from: VisionStorm;1143861Mine is full of highly volatile chemical substances and the ghosts of the smugglers, who thought that the house had been abandoned, but were in for a rude awakening when the alchemist came back as a lich to ruin their tax evading operation and poison bombed the entire house with noxious gas bombs to snuff them out, and laughed at them as they choked on the poison gasses, to which he was immune to on account of being undead.

Now the group has unleashed a fiery explosion full of noxious chemicals making their way to town, along with the ghosts of the dead smugglers, who are no longer tethered to the now destroyed house, as well as a pissed off lich who wants revenge. Congrats! :p

It's a starting adventure. Do that crap and everyone just laughs and says game over. You lose your DM chair as they prep for the next game and your stuck with the GoS book that's now much less useful. Good job there.

David Johansen

It's like the one player, who when I was wanting to run (GURPS) Dungeon Fantasy decided to make his character a king and hole up in his castle instead of engaging with the premise and going on the bloody adventure I'd prepared.  Well, that's just fine, but his castle can also be a dungeon and he can also fight his way through enemies there if there's a coup.  So that's what he got.  He was told in advance what kind of campaign it was and he tried to go around it.  I was disappointed that the campaign didn't last as his friend's mercenary captain character had Secret (king's bastard older brother) so that would have been fun.  sigh

DMing means going with the flow a lot of the time.  But there's no point in buying a module or doing any prep at all if the players consistently fail to engage.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

VisionStorm

Quote from: HappyDaze;1143864It's a starting adventure. Do that crap and everyone just laughs and says game over. You lose your DM chair as they prep for the next game and your stuck with the GoS book that's now much less useful. Good job there.

I just made it ten times better and suitable for high level adventurers. Now it's an actual haunted house and a death trap, with a powerful lich residing within it, and the mystery of WTF happened to the tax evading smugglers no one's seen in weeks. The local Thieves Guild Master is not a patient man and he wants his cut, but where the hell are his smugglers? Are they trying to stiff him? Did they run out of town? If the party's rogue finds out he's gonna owe them big! The Guild Master said the haunted house is just a sham--an old legend cultivated by the Guild to keep nosey towns people away from their secret smuggling operations... Or is it?  ;)

I was just messing around anyways. I don't waste money on modules--much less overpriced hardbacks like they sell these days--unless the module happens to be included as an extra with a campaign setting or setting expansion.

deadDMwalking

The smugglers are in caves below the house.  Burning g it down would not solve the problem.
When I say objectively, I mean \'subjectively\'.  When I say literally, I mean \'figuratively\'.  
And when I say that you are a horse\'s ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse\'s ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

HappyDaze

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1143886The smugglers are in caves below the house.  Burning g it down would not solve the problem.

No, it wouldn't...if the PCs had any reason to quarrel with the smugglers. The funny thing is that they more of less just wander to the house, burn it to the ground, and leave. The smugglers aren't going to reveal themselves by fighting the fire, and the caves alone don't leave them with much of a hideout (they slept.and are in the lower level of the house, not in the caves), so they might just opt to leave after the place burns. Many groups of bad guys know that sometimes it's better to just cut your losses, and smugglers seem likely to go that route to me.

S'mon

Quote from: HappyDaze;1143851The create bonfire cantrip can be used at will and creates a sustained 5-foot cube of magical fore. Then add oil. Lots of oil.

Yeah, I think I'd allow that (rather OP) 5e druid cantrip to do the job, eventually. Might need a few false starts but they can just keep trying different areas until it catches. I was thinking more of 1e as I don't have the 5e version. Also thinking of the Haunted House in The Skinsaw Murders (2nd part of Rise of the Runelords) and the Kreeg house in Hook Mountain Massacre (RotRL #3) - both of those are obvious burn-it-down candidates my players swiftly spotted.

I don't want to make it too easy; OTOH I listened to Njall's Saga on the radio decades ago and burn-it-down was very much the standard Viking tactic for dealing with houses full of pesky enemies.

finarvyn

I ran the 5E version of the adventure a few weeks ago for my group. Gave one character the deed to the house that she had just inherited, and so a crew of four level-one characters went there to investigate the haunting and clear out her new house. Amazing how a few traps and insect swarms can nearly TPK a low-level party when they don't get any rests. I nearly took 'em out several times. Also, there are a few nasties in the basement. We enjoyed it quite a bit.

Now, the second adventure in the 5E book wasn't as fun. The group went to investigate the lizard men and found a way to sidestep the whole plotline. Ugh.

Gonna start the third adventure soon. I'd say that the hardback is worth it so far. :D
Marv / Finarvyn
Kingmaker of Amber
I'm pretty much responsible for the S&W WB rules.
Amber Diceless Player since 1993
OD&D Player since 1975

Chainsaw

Man, smugglers avoiding taxes instead of a haunted mansion on the marsh? Ugh! Terrible secret surprise. The opposite would have been way cooler. Hunt down the smugglers only to learn they're ghostly pirates feeding on the townies' souls! :cool:

GameDaddy

#43
The Sinister Secrets of Saltmarsh
a review by the GameDaddy

Spoiler in place for noobs in case you haven't ever played this adventure and don''t want to ruin your play experience. Another words, if you don't want to run this as a GM, but want to one day play in it, don't read this!

Spoiler
This is an AD&D adventure module for 1st to 3rd level characters that came out in late 1981, written by Don Turnbull and Dave J. Browne. It included two follow up adventures U2, Danger at Dunwater and U3, The Final Enemy. Let me say right now, I really enjoyed Don Turnbull's Fiend Folio when it was released earlier in 1981, and it was refreshing to see new creatures for AD&D which I easily adapted for my 0D&D games. Based on what I saw in Fiend Folio I was really looking forward to checking out these new adventures, however was quite disappointed when I finally did get a look at  U1 Secrets of Saltmarsh.

For starters it was an adventure for brand new characters, 1st to 3rd level. We had been playing D&D for five years already at that point and as a GM, I was quite happy with running homebrew adventures for low level characters. One of the advantages of homebrew adventures is that the players can't cheat and look through the module themselves so they can "Win" by defeating the GM, which had reared it's head a couple of years earlier as a problem, especially with newer players. TSR had also got into the bad habit of shrink wrapping all of their games and modules so you couldn't just go down to the game store and get a look at the new adventure, someone literally had to buy a copy, and then open it, before the quality of the adventure would be apparent. We actually took this as a sign that the quality of the new adventures were questionable because TSR was afraid  to let GMs see them before they chose to buy them. They started shrink wrapping their games with the Holmes set of D&D, and had just never stopped after that. Usually at our local FLGS though, the game store owner would open a copy to run the game, and then leave the opened copy on the shelf as a sample, so we could get a look at the new game/module that had been recently released. After awhile though, they got in trouble with their distributors and even stopped giving sneak previews, which killed a lot of sales for them, because I wouldn't buy anything sight unseen.

Anyway I got an early look at Secrets of Saltmarsh right after it was released, and notwithstanding the fact it was an Intro adventure which by that time was practically useless to me as a GM, the first thing I come across is the haunted house. It wasn't particularly large, and it was stocked with generic monsters that were already available even for the 0D&D crew, so nothing new there. ...and that haunted house. My first impression of haunted houses of course had already been established with the release three years earlier of the Judges Guild Tegel Manor. Tegel Manor was huge, had all kinds of traps and scary encounters, many of which were not already listed in other books, and had set the gold standard for what a haunted house adventure should be. This being released like three years later seemed like a knock off  poor copying attempt, and that really put me off from buying it at the time.

I did give it a good going through because I really wanted a new adventure to run for my players, but kept on hitting snags that dulled my desire to use this for my players. Once the players clear the mansion and get down into sea caverns the encounters were unremarkable, linear, and the entire adventure felt forced. It's an almost textbook perfect example of a railroad where no side plots, or optional opportunities for adventure are presented. The players are tasked with simply hunting down and killing the sea pirates, on their ship the Sea Ghost, and looting everything. There are no spinoff storylines available, no option to instead join the pirates, and no true or false rumors the players have to sort through, in fact, it's densely packed with mostly flavorless text and is highly railroad, here's a specific example:

"RANDOM ENCOUNTERS ABOARD THE SEA GHOST
There will be no random encounters other than aboard the ship. No sea monsters, etc., will plague the excise officers on patrol or the party on its way to the boarding attempt.The Dungeon Master must keep in mind that the smugglers are a successful band of organised and intelligent criminals..."
...etc. et al.

Never mind the fact that they anchored their ship, and are an easy target... (my words here)... because they are organized and intelligent criminals!. They lost their lair, yet there is no danger, ...they can just anchor out in Ye Olde Harbour and wait for the murder-hobo players to come along and "surprise them".   There's no stats for other ships, no seafaring adventure map, in short it takes them twelve full pages just to describe how to run a night time boarding action on a sailing ship. We had already done this countless times in our home brew piratical adventures. ...Yawn. This was about every reason I stayed away from later AD&D adventure modules, because TSR couldn't offer a better game than I was already used to running at my table. Of course this was a no-buy for me, and I didn't even bother looking at U2 and U3.

I felt sorry for Don Turnbull, based on the really great monsters he added to Fiend Folio, I'm sure had a better game to offer. Too bad we never got to see it.

Blackmoor grew from a single Castle to include, first, several adjacent Castles (with the forces of Evil lying just off the edge of the world to an entire Northern Province of the Castle and Crusade Society's Great Kingdom.

~ Dave Arneson

Ghostmaker

Quote from: finarvyn;1143921I ran the 5E version of the adventure a few weeks ago for my group. Gave one character the deed to the house that she had just inherited, and so a crew of four level-one characters went there to investigate the haunting and clear out her new house. Amazing how a few traps and insect swarms can nearly TPK a low-level party when they don't get any rests. I nearly took 'em out several times. Also, there are a few nasties in the basement. We enjoyed it quite a bit.

Now, the second adventure in the 5E book wasn't as fun. The group went to investigate the lizard men and found a way to sidestep the whole plotline. Ugh.

Gonna start the third adventure soon. I'd say that the hardback is worth it so far. :D

I don't think I'd ever toss swarms at level 1 adventurers. There's only a few options to deal with them at that low level, and most are pretty janky. Traps and minor critters, sure.