So, we have as far I know, an unprecedented situation. Classic Traveller has been considered a dead game line for decades. Cepheus Engine has been published and is considered old school, if not Old School Renaissance by the D&D guardians of that marketing term. Yet since the IP of Marc Miller has been sold to Mongoose Publishing - the first Classic Traveller book in 35 years has been published, Book 9: Pirates.

https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/products/book-9-pirates?fbclid=IwY2xjawJBXBZleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHQ4KWVF39n8tIlE-CtzZ3cy-D1OMq1MW62UzUTIk4NxMhXHNUq-ojZ8T-g_aem__vRwnpcWUVZZiaEv1Yy7zw

So my question is: Can a dead game be brought back to life if new material for it is being published? Is that possible or are new publications considered gaming undead? A zombie game that shambles on for the grognards who still play Classic Traveller?

Talislanta dies and like a Phoenix made of recycled Sterno, it reignites, people go "Ooo! I remember Talislanta." then it flickers out, every few years.

The reality is this: it takes GM's to push games to their players outside of D&D. Any game can come back, but it takes people to run them and spread the word.

Then it takes money and people taking risk and putting out maximal effort to get some spark of momentum going.

So yeah - a "dead" line can come back. It just takes will and effort (and in most cases, money).

If Traveler has new publications and new players... (There's no way the latter is literally nonexistent, right?)

Isn't it still living? I mean, it has a player base and people willing to publish, right? Even if not quite so many as it used to?

I don't know much about this topic, but if there are new publications and new players, I'd call it both living and more successful than many a new TTRPG.

I think a lot of it comes down to marketing.

Quote from: KindaMeh on March 14, 2025, 04:17:16 PMIf Traveler has new publications and new players... (There's no way the latter is literally nonexistent, right?)

Isn't it still living? I mean, it has a player base and people willing to publish, right? Even if not quite so many as it used to?

I don't know much about this topic, but if there are new publications and new players, I'd call it both living and more successful than many a new TTRPG.

TTRPGS aren't like other mediums, like video games, because they are easier to share with other people. In this view, a game would die if absolutely nobody anywhere is playing it.

Harder than you'd think, because I saw paid games of Thirsty Sword Lesbians as recently as a year ago.

From my point of view, a game lives or dies at the table.  WEG Star Wars D6 is still alive and kicking and Coyote and Crow is dead.

So Traveller...

First, I would like to point out that Mongoose Traveller 2e is closer to Classic Traveller than D&D 5e is to OD&D or Call of Cthulhu 7e is to 1e.  It's so close as a matter of fact that when I run Traveller I often mash up Classic, Mega, New Era, Mongoose 1e and 2e, and Cepheus Engine while making no effort what so ever to convert.  I pick a rules set for PC creation and do what ever the hell I want behind the screen.  It works.  Players have fun, occasionally PCs die, and the game keeps rolling.

I know some guys only play CT but not really.  I don't think anyone anywhere really plays it RAW.  I think the real reason why Traveller GURPS and Traveller D20 were so hated is because they were not mash up ready with what guys already had.

So... Classic Traveller is dead, long live Classic Traveller! 

Also, Mongoose is waaaay late to this train with several Cepheus Engine supplements already awesome and ready for you to go pirating in your favorite subsectors.

Quote from: tenbones on March 14, 2025, 04:10:04 PMTalislanta dies and like a Phoenix made of recycled Sterno, it reignites, people go "Ooo! I remember Talislanta." then it flickers out, every few years.

Yeah. I can think of a few like this - like HERO System being resurrected in 2001. But they're mostly flickering on the edge rather than booming back.

I'm aware of a couple other attempts to do this: Serpent King Games with Dragon Warriors Revised, and Arion Games with Maelstrom. Both are very early British RPGs that got latter day new editions or reprints. Dragon Warriors was at least a mild success. People (including myself) played it and there's a small but respectable fan-made content scene. I haven't seen as much evidence of Maelstrom's relaunch taking off, though the core book is a platinum seller on Drivethru, so it must not be a complete flop. Arion Games really tried to support it, even putting out three new time-period settings. Looks like they've since acquired the Advanced Fighting Fantasy IP and started republishing that, too. I wonder how that's going.

I think the ultimate question is just how much people still remember the old game. Traveller never went away, so that's an easy one. I'm sure if you could get the license to revive WEG Star Wars, MERP, or Rifts you could do pretty well.

I don't think of a game which isn't played much or currently receiving supplements as "dead." It's more "on ice." Systems don't really die so much as get put on ice and pushed down into the permafrost.

Is it possible to revive these older systems? Yes, but it's usually better to steer clear of any IP litigation or technical debt by making a new game, and market it as a spiritual successor.

Are you specifically meaning bringing back an older version of a game when there is a newer/current version in print?

D&D 4e is being raised from the dead via various incarnations/inspirations as of late like MCDM after a decade in the ground officially and another 5+ years prior to that when it was the current edition.   Does that count?

Quote from: RNGm on March 14, 2025, 06:54:34 PMD&D 4e is being raised from the dead via various incarnations/inspirations as of late like MCDM after a decade in the ground officially and another 5+ years prior to that when it was the current edition.   Does that count?

I also, thought of 4E.  There are some dedicated denizens, who want it back right now.  I don't, but I also don't mind if it is played forever.  If that's their game, then game on.

I hope OD&D flavored gaming, lives on forever.  Keep the fun, simple.

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 15, 2025, 12:24:32 AM

Quote from: RNGm on March 14, 2025, 06:54:34 PMD&D 4e is being raised from the dead via various incarnations/inspirations as of late like MCDM after a decade in the ground officially and another 5+ years prior to that when it was the current edition.   Does that count?

I also, thought of 4E.  There are some dedicated denizens, who want it back right now.  I don't, but I also don't mind if it is played forever.  If that's their game, then game on.

I hope OD&D flavored gaming, lives on forever.  Keep the fun, simple.

I wouldn't think so. D&D 4E is like AD&D, B/X, and BECMI in that all have retroclones (as Cepheus Engine is a retroclone hybrid of Traveller and Mongoose Traveller 1e), but Book 9: Pirates is an official original publication done by the owners of the IP. That's a first AFAIK.

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 15, 2025, 12:24:32 AMI also, thought of 4E.  There are some dedicated denizens, who want it back right now.  I don't, but I also don't mind if it is played forever.  If that's their game, then game on.

Ditto.   I'm happy that they potentially found something they might like but it won't be for me (similar to how 4e wasn't either).   I still reserve the right to call them foolish for spending $4mil on essentially a cocktail napkin or two worth of ideas and feelings even if something comes out the other end.

I got the email about this yesterday and thought it was for Mongoose, then realized it was for actual Traveller and became confused...45 years better late than never?

My question is not whether or not anyone playing Traveller should get this, but really what the market is beyond a small core of players who probably use all sorts of other resources. Is this a nostalgia catch grab, a legitimate foray into reviving CT, just a one off for fun? I run CT sometimes but liberally steal from Cepheus, Mongoose, and T5 (I know), so I'm wondering why I'd need this. I mean of course I do, but other people may not.