I suspect the answer depends on how one defines "old school".

Is 5e too different a game compared to TSR/OSR editions to be played as "old school"?

Would the changes necessary be too onerous on the 5e players?

What would be the advantage of running 5e "old school" versus just running TSR edition or an OSR game?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1145175I suspect the answer depends on how one defines "old school".

Is 5e too different a game compared to TSR/OSR editions to be played as "old school"?

Would the changes necessary be too onerous on the 5e players?

What would be the advantage of running 5e "old school" versus just running TSR edition or an OSR game?

No idea but this might provide some insight

I think it can get close. I have enjoyed things like "Five Torches Deep" and "Hard Mode" that definitely bend the rules back to an older edition. I have been putting together my own set of tweaks to run it more like BECM or RC. I think much of the old school mind set has to do with running the game as far as resource management and time keeping. There is nothing explicitly in 5E keeping you from doing those things.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1145175I suspect the answer depends on how one defines "old school".

Is 5e too different a game compared to TSR/OSR editions to be played as "old school"?

Would the changes necessary be too onerous on the 5e players?

What would be the advantage of running 5e "old school" versus just running TSR edition or an OSR game?

Shrug, everything my player has described in his account of my 5th edition campaign in the Majestic Wilderlands has occurred in the campaigns I ran using Swords & Wizardry and my Majestic Wilderlands supplement. And also GURPS, Fantasy Hero, and finally forty years ago using AD&D.

Quips aside, the power curve of 5th edition generally follows that of 3 LBB of OD&D with Greyhawk making easy for me to flip flop material between the two.

I would start with Fighter-Champion, Cleric-Life, Wizard-Evoker, Rogue-Thief. Try out some other class-subclasses judiciously and see what happens. Don't allow multi-classing.

For the record here how the Swords & Wizardry campaign ended back in 2011.

Oh my! Where the god!

5e is very loose so its pretty easy to graft on the various structures of play to do it. A lot of it is on the DM side and the players just see it as a DM preference. ie, some games you meticulously track torches and rations and some you don't. Well in this you do.

The advantage for me is:

1) I know 5e already like the back of my hand, so it's easier to modify it to fit the old school aesthetic than start a whole new system.

2) Everyone else already plays 5e so I don't need to teach them anything. They just show up and play 5e + some house rules and the way I DM it. (I run very resource management heavy games.)

That said, the biggest difference will be getting the players who are used to having Critical Role be the default way to play, to buy into it. But if you can show them how it's fun they'll be able to appreciate it as a specific kind of game, if not their favorite.

At least half, probably more, of the "old school" feel is the attitude and choices of the GM.  So in that sense, almost any fantasy game can be run partially that way with a little twisting.  For example, the GM has the world work as it is, throwing stuff at you as you find it, and it is up to you to determine if a particular area is too dangerous or not (via scouting, searching for rumors, etc.)  The GM expects the players to run when things get too hot.  If they don't, they probably die.

Leaving that kind of thing aside, I'd think that if you truly wanted the full old school experience, it would be better to run with the old school game.  I'm running 5E as quasi old school, but that's because I don't want the full old school experience (for that campaign).  It's easy enough to switch 5E into a mode where it is solidly in that part of the "old school" Venn diagram without going all the way to the center.  For example, changing the default rules on healing so that dying is more likely (and getting worn down from exhaustion even more likely) and hit points are a resource that has to be managed.  

Default XP is a problem, but easy enough to fix by using wandering monsters in the old school way, but not giving full XP for them.  (I give full XP for the first "set" of wandering monsters, defined as about the amount that it is almost impossible to avoid.  Then I give half XP or less for the "reinforcements" and then 1/10th or nothing for anything after that.   And I told the players that plainly.  Makes them very interested in avoiding most optional encounters unless they see some advantage to it.  Also simulates just a little the idea of "get the treasure, avoid the monsters, get out."  As long as the players are playing that way, I don't need to go the full old school "gold for XP" option.)

A big problem for 5E as old school is the sheer lack of support to make money meaningful.  I don't consider the band aids in the DMG or in the supplements to be much help with the underlying problem either.  Default 5E has no "money sinks".  The options and supplements provide some sinks, but they don't integrate them into meaningful decision making about resources in a way that supports old school play.  The only easy way I can see to surmount that out of the box is to run a 5E campaign on the silver standard--that is, convert all treasure to one tenth of its book value but leave the costs as they are--maybe in an immediately post-apocalyptic game with a lot of scarcity.  

What 5E is more designed to do is spread out the "old school" experience from between about old rules 5th to 9th level over a longer span of time and levels.  In 5E, it's about 3rd to 11th level, and doesn't completely go away over 11th, either.  It's designed less for: "Almost hopeless scrub goes into the dungeon in a big group.  Rare survivors become heroes."  Rather, it's more for:  "Survivors of the aforementioned process go do dangerous things."  Which in my case was why I picked it for the campaign instead of BEMCI/RC.  5E characters can handle a lot more.  So a GM with an old school attitude that doesn't mind that some of them might die can throw a lot more at them.  Of course, I could get a similar feel by going with BEMCI/RC and starting around 5th level, though the defenses and saving throws are still much more brutal than 5E.

As Monsterslayer stated above, use the optional hard mode rules, and estar's subclass suggestions.

Ditch non-human races other than elf, halfling, dwarf.  Halfings have to be rogues, elves fighter/magic-users, dwarves fighters.  If they want another race say no, that's a monster, you'd be killed by the civilized folks.  Go play Tieflings and Teatime or Firbolgs and Faggotry at the game down the street.

Decide on a cost, and make the players pay to level.  

Handwave downtime, and concentrate on getting from adventure to adventure - no one reads a Conan/Elric/Jon Carter/et al book about him shopping, healing up and having a pleasant vacation.  Fuck that.  If they play stupid, punish them.  Don't roll for everything, have them explain what their doing.  

It's not (dice roll) ''I look for traps'' its ''Without touching the door, I investigate the lock carefully, does it look trapped?''

All of that said, it's not adversarial; but you are not their friend or parent guiding them through the funhouse; you are their drill instructor, forcing them to reach deep inside and live up to their potential - you are the stern old-testament diety who has rules that will not be defied.  You need to push them, test them, kick them when they're down and make them fight back to their feet.

Keep it simple -- strip out the few parts you like, and call it something other than "5e", to waylay any player expectations.

It can be done fairly easily, limit the races/classes (and subclasses), set a max ability score of 16 (roll 4d4 for stats), no feats and set a limit to cantrips per day, and turn Short rests into Long rests.  That will get you pretty close. Monkeying with hit points and AC is fruitless, that is more of an aesthetic anyhow.  

I don't care about XP for gold, that isn't what makes a game OSR for me. Give XP for challenges that are overcome, sidestepped, or discovered

Quote from: SirFrog;1145269It can be done fairly easily, limit the races/classes (and subclasses), set a max ability score of 16 (roll 4d4 for stats), no feats and set a limit to cantrips per day, and turn Short rests into Long rests.  That will get you pretty close. Monkeying with hit points and AC is fruitless, that is more of an aesthetic anyhow.  

I don't care about XP for gold, that isn't what makes a game OSR for me. Give XP for challenges that are overcome, sidestepped, or discovered

Welcome to theRPGSite!!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1145175...versus just running TSR edition or an OSR game?

I don't see why one would want to put in the effort when so many awesome OSR games exist. Just tell your 5e players it's a modified D&D and let the dice roll...

It's funny the confluence of politics. The outrage brigade has been agitating for the full firing of Mike Mearls and boycott of 5e until WOTC complies. There has been much buzz about finding and supporting alternatives in support of that effort. Except all the good OSR games are made by evil conservatives and anti-woke pundits (nod nod wink wink). Such a consternation.

In the effort to thrust their fascist views on the rest of the hobby, the OB is creating an environment where they are going to destroy the one company willing to bend the knee and comply with almost any of their requests. But, alas, they won't do EVERYTHING required. So they join the rest of us on the pyre.

I love the idea of "Don't buy games from people that hate you." It's very appropriate to this conversation.

There are so many fucking awesome options to D&D for OSR enthusiasts there is literally no reason to play or buy 5e. Castles & Crusades, ACKS, Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, Old School Essentials (they have the advanced stuff on KS I believe...), and our very own Pundit's Lion & Dragon, or Kevin Crawford's Red Tide or Godbound stuff... It really is the golden age of the OSR.

Personally, I think the hobby would benefit from the big dogs being knocked down a couple pegs. They will get hungry again and make better stuff. As a capitalist I appreciate the fundamentals of competition and the benefits it brings to a market. I like WOTC and Paizo. Most RPG creatives have way more in common than they don't. There's hardly the same factions behind the curtain as there are in front of it. But still, the market is only going to benefit from the success of enthusiast creatives producing "small publisher" games.

Go play an OSR game for your OSR feels. Not only will the experience be better, but you'll be supporting the hobby and market in a meaningful way.

Just my two cents...

Having played a lot of 5e recently, I have to say that I do not think it can give an old school feel. Why? Because it is far too focused on over-the-top powers and player gratification. Sure, there are a few dials that can be tweaked to turn the default "Easy Mode" a bit toward "Slightly Challenging" but it's hard to really go beyond that without throwing out most of the game. And speaking of throwing out, so much of the simulationist-side details have been thrown out that what's left is really only good for roleplaying a character from Gauntlet ("Yellow Wizard needs healing word badly" seems really familiar).

Use the freely downloadable D&D 5e Basic Game and get rid of any healing benefits from Short Rest or Long Rest. That would be a very good start.

For an excellent start, burn your D&D 5e books and use either Basic Fantasy or Advanced Labyrinth Lord instead.

This question was asked of 4e. The answer was no.

This question was asked of 3.5. The answer was no.

The answer with 5e is no.

Trying to do old school play with 3.5 onwards is like trying to do roleplaying with a game of chess. You might think you're doing it, but there are some things missing.

A game system is a tool. You can change a tyre with a chisel, but you're better off using a spanner.

Oh, I forgot one of the biggest advantages to using 5e:

All of its material is online and easy to access, in a convenient format (at least for online play). It's way easier to have people making their PCs just use online SRD type resources and be able to filter, browse spells from all the books, look at source materials, etc. I have no idea what I would do in the same situation if I was running 2e. I don't even know how many books there are or what counts.