[Crossposted to a couple of different fora]
Hi all,
I'm currently running the Great Pendragon Campaign, we've reached the year 551. That will likely run for much of the rest of this year, following which I want to run something else with potential for deep extended play.
I'm considering running a two stage CoC game, probably using either the second edition or seventh edition (if it's out) rules, not that the edition particularly matters. Not ToC though or Cthulhu Dark or whatever. The engine isn't really the point of this post, but it might be helpful for people to know it (nothing against ToC etc, I just really like the classic CoC rules and find them easy to run).
My basic concept is a game set in London in the 1920s which will run for some time, possibly then skipping forward a generation to a game set in World War 2 using the World War Cthulhu stuff. The two campaigns should be linked, but not necessarily directly flow from one another (ie it's ok if in the 20's the horror is laid to rest for a generation, only for fresh horror to surface in the '40s as various individuals once again try to stir that which should be left to rest, it doesn't though need to be the same exact threat in both generations).
In terms of philosophy I plan the mythos to be essentially dormant at this point, save when somehow provoked or prodded. The mythos therefore here is more like radioactive waste or a localised but highly virulent virus. If left to its own devices it might harm those near it, but it won't spill out and endanger a wider group. If you mess with it though you might do all kinds of harm.
In other words, the stars are not yet right, the world isn't of its own accord going to end any time soon, but if people decide to bring back objects from the wrong places, to try to work magics learned from old books, then terrible consequences can ensue.
That's not by the way meant to make humanity cosmically important, it's rather reflecting again that concept of the mythos as presently dormant from our limited perspective unless prodded.
Here's the difficult bit. My players all know CoC as a game really well. They know the critters, they know the stats, they basically know the mythos. That makes it less "what is that thing?" and more "it's a deep one, rifles should work here" (player knowledge versus PC knowledge I know, but even if PCs don't act on player knowledge you've still lost something by the players understanding perfectly well what it is).
Also, I really don't want a monster of the week game. I don't want this week it's Deep Ones, then a guy who's swapped bodies, then a cult worshipping Hastur, then more Deep Ones. It kills suspension of disbelief for me and turns it (for me) a bit into D&D (which I like, but it's not what I want this to be). The monster manual approach isn't what I want here. Ideally I'd have no monsters at all, just outer gods, people accessing forces they shouldn't, and if there are monsters only where someone has unwisely called them up rather than them happening to be in the sewers and nobody's noticed.
So, that's the challenge. I want a game with potential for longevity (months, even a year or two of play) that makes sparing use of monsters and which makes the mythos largely dormant save where interfered with. I think you can do all that and have a game which actually feels fairly Lovecraftian (in HPL the monsters tend to be prodded into activity by us, they rarely just wander along to cause trouble of their own accord), but it's a challenge to keep it interesting and credible both at the same time.
Thoughts welcome. I don't plan to use published materials if that's relevant.
Plan a cult that's in it for the long run.
In my current Bookhounds of London game (might want to buy that, it's awesome, as well as Occult Guide to London), the PCs are in the middle of plots related to five major cults:
The Scarlet Dragon Lodge - a Masonic spin - off that worships Cthulhu and seeks to awaken a Spawn of Cthulhu asleep underneath the Isle of Dogs, and ultimately, Cthulhu as well. I've stolen them from Hellblazer's The Fear Machine. Signature move - garrotting it's victims. Major resources: Home Secretary is affiliated with them, and there's a selective group of Special Branch members that's on their beck and call.
Mister Wilde - a character from original King in Yellow, an odd alien creature of Hastur in human disguise, meddling and trying to spread the reach of King in Yellow, and ultimately, summon Hastur to London and add that city to Carcosa. He's been on earth for very, very long time, working as Repairer of Reputations, and has a dangerous network of blackmail and informants to call upon against those who stand in his way. Major resources: blackmail and underworld connections.
Keirerches (sp?) - those are from Bookhounds of London, a cult of Y'Gollonac indulging in pleasures that put de Sade to shame. They recruit pillars of social life into their ranks, and seek to spread Y'Gollonac's influence in his aspect of venereal disease. Major resource: Social ostracism.
Ordo Templi Orientalis and Circle of the Moon - two rival occult lodges (one historical, after all, what's 30s London without old cook Crowley around), that in this reality, deal in genuine magic. Circle of the Moon seeks to imprison Dream/Hypnos (yes, I've taken that from Sandman), causing an uproar in Dreamlands.
That sounds like a great game, and quite sandboxy too which is harder with Cthulhu I think.
Is Bookhounds useful if I'm not using Trail as a ruleset? Also, how much can I carry back to the '20s?
The setup is good, including the use of the Fear Machine stuff which I thought was among the better Hellblazer stories.
It occurs to me that I could run CoC like Pendragon. Assume months between adventures, plenty of downtime, actually use the rules as written for reading tomes and learning spells by assuming a quiet two years passes or whatever.
Quote from: Rincewind1;817451Plan a cult that's in it for the long run.
What he said.
The vast majority of CoC games I've run have focused on the human agents of the Mythos... cults old and new... conspirators who might not even know what forces they serve. Humans can be plenty dangerous, weird and cruel without resorting to tentacles and giant monsters. Ancient sorcerers conducting covert wars against each other... human ghouls and vampires... serial killers (using the Jackals from Kult)... cretinous 'auteurs' making snuff movies... all sewn together into a crazy-quilt using the Mythos as thread.
One long campaign was set in late 60s-early 70s San Francisco and mixed in all the bizarre cultic groups, psychedelia, drugs and counterculture movements that sprung up around that era. Flower children on top... but stuff like The Process, the Manson family and the Zodiac Killer underneath. Hardly any 'monsters' at all. There was a shoggoth at one point but it's owner kept in a mayonnaise jar and it never got out.
There was never any real threat of doomsday... but there were some nasty earthquakes.
Mostly it was a sandbox full of crazies for the PCs to investigate and put down... or sometimes join forces with.
In my view, my monsters should be used sparingly. If a monster shows up, someone should die. Use a lot of cultists.
Come up with a good opening scene to hook the players. Maybe a patron just died and left the party a box of his/her research including newspaper clipping, maps, notes. Maybe create some props.
Use the slow build style.
Don't tell them you are running Cthulhu. Come up with another premise like a detectives solving a mystery in London. Maybe you can't pull this off depending on your group history.
Good luck.
i just came across this you might want to check it out
http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/38308343/meta-call-of-cthulhu
and the moe link if you want to come back after a week
https://archive.moe/tg/thread/38308343/
Quote from: D-503;817469Is Bookhounds useful if I'm not using Trail as a ruleset? Also, how much can I carry back to the '20s?
Trail of Cthulhu is one of the better sourcebooks for CoC you could probaly get. On its own, the system is rather okay, but as a different viw on the setting and its various supernatural elements, it is pretty good. So are most of the additional material, including Bookhounds. Good writing, very enjoyable production design, rules that try to solve a problem that isn't really there (and are annoyingly heavy on bookkeeping) - that is basically ToC in a nutshell.
The transferability of the material depends a bit on how much historical accuracy you expect and enforce in your game, but the book is pretty good and offers some really neat ideas in any case. I would recommend it (and then use classic CoC or standard BRP for the game mechanics). Alternatively, just set the game in the 1930s, especially if you plan to expand the campaign later on into a WWII scenario anyway.
All I can suggest is that if you do not already have it, grab a copy of d20 CoC just for the timeline of events and their relation to the Cthulhu Mythos for some good inspiration.
Quote from: D-503;817469That sounds like a great game, and quite sandboxy too which is harder with Cthulhu I think.
Is Bookhounds useful if I'm not using Trail as a ruleset? Also, how much can I carry back to the '20s?
The setup is good, including the use of the Fear Machine stuff which I thought was among the better Hellblazer stories.
It occurs to me that I could run CoC like Pendragon. Assume months between adventures, plenty of downtime, actually use the rules as written for reading tomes and learning spells by assuming a quiet two years passes or whatever.
I'm using CoC ruleset so it's definitely useful - most information in the book is about London, building adventures, and such. There are a few skills that might be worth transferable to CoC character sheet, if you'd go with Bookhounds campaign.
You'd need to twist the London a bit - some institutions don't yet exist, some, iconic, such as Royal Bethlem Hospital, are still in old locations, but well - London is London, it has not changed that much in 10 years. It's certainly a bit brighter when Roaring Twenties come along, but on the other hand - if you start in early 20s, there are hundreds of shellshocked veterans, rampant crime due to a mass of youths who don't know how to do anything else than kill, and of course, revolts and civil war in Ireland is the topic of the day. You'd need to import a timeline from another expansion I am afraid though, since Bookhounds' starts from 1929.
Also, a word of advice - don't be afraid to twist and turn the mythos. I have one experienced player in my campaign, and he might've known what King in Yellow is from the start, but he didn't know what I'd do with it.
Another thing regarding monsters - remember that they, often enough, have their own civilisations. A Deep One encountered as a monster to shoot is a whole other bag of pebbles for the players, than a group of Deep Ones exiled from their colony near Dublin Bay for refusing to partake in a raid against rival colony, that now work as best fishermen in London. Of course, this should be carefully gauged, so it doesn't turn into (too much of a) slapstick.
Oh, and awesome that you got to finish the GPC. It's a particular dream of mine to someday start it and run it to the finish.
You might consider taking a look at The Laundry rpg (http://www.cubicle7.co.uk/our-games/the-laundry/) from Cubicle 7. Even if it is inspired by the Mythos its interpretation is quite different : taking the exemple of the Deep Ones, players who treat Deep Ones of the Laundryverse like Deep Ones from CoC are in for a very nasty surprise.
The way the Mythos is reinterpreted in the Laundry is an excellent way to surprise the most hardcore veteran CoC player.
The only "problem" is that The Laundry is a contemporary setting though you'll find some advice to run a campaign in the 20's in the God Game Black book.
What makes it very interesting is the fact that The Laundry (the organisation) was born during World War 2 which will give your WW2 campaign a very interesting backdrop.
God Game Black also presents the US equivalent of the Laundry, The Black Chamber (way more darker and nasty) : this organisation can trace its origins to 1919 which gives you a very nice background for your 20's campaign.
The Laundry basically uses the same system as CoC so there is 0 need for conversion.
My two cents
EDIT : I've been running a Laundry campaign for two years now, with a parallel campaign taking place during World War 2.
I'd ditch the atypical mythos threat and come up with your own. I ran a great campaign using a cult of Moloch as the primary nemesis that ran up to the Stock Market crash. Besides a few random references to the King in Yellow, it was basically all new monsters and Moloch made for a great Mythos-like entity without being well-known or cliche.
HEREs (https://sites.google.com/site/theministryfiles/) a website I madefor the game. I'd originally began recording the adventures, but gave that up pretty early on.
There's a lot of unused Mythos in the Creature Companion.
• Pick a main threat: Great One, Great Old One, Outer God, Elder God...
• Pick a servitor race, if any.
• Add at least one well-organized cult, willing to play the long game and take a few losses.
• Add a few wild card cults, splinter cells, or lost cadres.
• Add mysterious one-shot artifacts and oo-gobs of omens.
• Marinate locale in such ideas and germinate notable NPCs and Locales.
CoC sandbox is really not all that hard. It's more a mission-based sandbox, but many of the principle ideas overlap. Grab multiple missions, and their basic structure, insert them in a fleshed out region; attach priorities and time limits to missions and let the PCs go.
It would be easier for you to tell us what they don't know about CoC Mythos. Then we can easily scribble out which lesser known Mythos, servitor, cult package you can go with.
Quote from: TristramEvans;817651I'd ditch the atypical mythos threat and come up with your own. I ran a great campaign using a cult of Moloch as the primary nemesis that ran up to the Stock Market crash. Besides a few random references to the King in Yellow, it was basically all new monsters and Moloch made for a great Mythos-like entity without being well-known or cliche.
HEREs (https://sites.google.com/site/theministryfiles/) a website I madefor the game. I'd originally began recording the adventures, but gave that up pretty early on.
What was the Ministry?
Quote from: D-503;817700What was the Ministry?
With a motto of "In Absentia Lucis, Tenebrae Vincunt" were you intending to tie the Ministry to the Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense of Hellboy fame at all?
Quote from: D-503;817469It occurs to me that I could run CoC like Pendragon. Assume months between adventures, plenty of downtime, actually use the rules as written for reading tomes and learning spells by assuming a quiet two years passes or whatever.
This is probably one of the best ways of doing it. Even when I am running published campaigns like Masks of Nyarlathotep, I like to have plenty of downtime.
Most of the books for ToC are excellent and not difficult to translate to CoC at all. I have only found a disappointing adventure set in Spanish Civil War, but all the big campaigns are really recommended.
Also, as someone else suggested, think about creating your own threat. In the Nocturnum campaign, a modern CoC campaign from Fantasy Flight, later adaptaed for CoC D20, the author created two alien races struggling for some artifacts. It works like a charm, as no player knows them.
Quote from: Imperator;817735Most of the books for ToC are excellent and not difficult to translate to CoC at all. I have only found a disappointing adventure set in Spanish Civil War, but all the big campaigns are really recommended.
Just out of curiosity, why is the adventure set in the Spanish civil war bad? Too rail roady? Badly written? Or is it more because you may have a better understanding of the conflict being a Spaniard, than the author? Again just curious.
Quote from: D-503;817700What was the Ministry?
My version of the B.P.R.D. from Hellboy. Basically a British gentleman's club devoted to investigating the occult and protecting Britain from supernatural threats.
Of course, long ago they'd been infiltrated by a cult...
Quote from: CRKrueger;817718With a motto of "In Absentia Lucis, Tenebrae Vincunt" were you intending to tie the Ministry to the Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense of Hellboy fame at all?
Exactly that.
On the topic of gumshoe and the too well known monstrosities: I think that the book of unremitting horrors offers a few quite fresh and interesting creatures that work reasonably well in most cthuloid games.
Otherwise, (and essentially British), Stoker's Lair of the White Worm forms a great backbone for a classic not-really-but-close-enough take on a Cthulhu myth story. Just add serpentfolk.
Other than that I would actually recommend not using any of the GOOs as anyhing but a very distant element; they exist, but they do not need to actively participate in any relevant gaming events. Stoker's white worm doesn't have to be an avatar of Yig (for instance) to be a horrible, horrible monster. The fact that it exists alone should be sufficient. The GOOs do not differ that much from each other, especially in their role within a campaign: if they appear, the investigators die (and those who don't envy the dead). Which one you use (if at all) is mostly moot, and name recognition - not exactly helpful if a certain "been there done that" ennui plagues your players. An interesting take on the more manageable mythos entities, like Shea's Fat Face offers more potential.
Mythos monsters are great when you never mention any names. Mythos gods are at their best when they are nothing but names.
Beagle's advice is spot on.
The challenge for me is in world design, and that's where knowing the power behind the throne becomes critical. The Mythos head sets the mood & manner, as they often have distinct calling features. The variations between serving organizations (cults, cadres, loons, alien races, etc) deviates not too far from the head.
Having that alien-aligned perspective helps me see an Earth locale through their non-Euclidean rose-colored glasses. Then generating NPCs, Locations, & Hooks becomes easier, for me at least.
Quote from: Ronin;817753Just out of curiosity, why is the adventure set in the Spanish civil war bad? Too rail roady? Badly written? Or is it more because you may have a better understanding of the conflict being a Spaniard, than the author? Again just curious.
Basically, the book is not very well documented. Not White-Wolf bad, but it makes several glaring mistakes describing the siege of Madrid, wrong dates and the like. also, the adventure is not well written (specially when compared with the usual standards of Pelgrane) and I remember that at some points it left me scratching my head.
It is not terrible, mind you. But usually ToC products are very very good.
Quote from: Imperator;818541Basically, the book is not very well documented. Not White-Wolf bad, but it makes several glaring mistakes describing the siege of Madrid, wrong dates and the like. also, the adventure is not well written (specially when compared with the usual standards of Pelgrane) and I remember that at some points it left me scratching my head.
It is not terrible, mind you. But usually ToC products are very very good.
Anyone doing anything for Cthulhu had better be careful about historical accuracy, given the standards that have been set.