So I got Cairn, the 1st edition and also the 2nd Player's Guide off Amazon for less than $10 total. The original game looks...well, interesting? It's rules-light, small book, and looks super easy to play, but has enough depth to be something more than simplistic. 2nd edition, however, is way bigger and I am thinking it might sort of undermine the entire point of this game, especially considering there's a GMs guide (Warden?) floating around that doesn't have POD yet.

Is this one of those cases of someone trying to do too much? It's almost as if the author made a decent light RPG, had some success, and now padded the fuck out of the new edition because he got carried away. It's obviously not some sort of cash grab as the game is literally free with a print version at basically cost, but what is it with this sort of pathological issue where the complication is almost inescapable? Did I miss something here?

Anyway, just looking for some opinions on the two editions and if it's worth playing.

I only have Cairn first edition and there really isn't enough there to call it a game. A hodge-podge of tables and ideas. It's almost a really good bunch of tables for NPCs.

I picked up the second edition just recently as part of a pile of cheap-o Amazon purchases, and yeah, I flipped through it once and it left virtually no impression on me. I'm a rules light guy, but with Cairn I didn't see what the hype was about.

Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2025, 08:39:44 PMSo I got Cairn, the 1st edition and also the 2nd Player's Guide off Amazon for less than $10 total. The original game looks...well, interesting? It's rules-light, small book, and looks super easy to play, but has enough depth to be something more than simplistic. 2nd edition, however, is way bigger and I am thinking it might sort of undermine the entire point of this game, especially considering there's a GMs guide (Warden?) floating around that doesn't have POD yet.

Is this one of those cases of someone trying to do too much? It's almost as if the author made a decent light RPG, had some success, and now padded the fuck out of the new edition because he got carried away. It's obviously not some sort of cash grab as the game is literally free with a print version at basically cost, but what is it with this sort of pathological issue where the complication is almost inescapable? Did I miss something here?

Anyway, just looking for some opinions on the two editions and if it's worth playing.

I got Cairn 1st ed a year or 2 ago.  It's super fast to pick up and run.  The indie crowd supporters added a lot of one shots and stuff.  One YouTuber did a Cops like take with it. Pretty clever you play as town constables patrolling the town at nite.

What you said about 2nd Ed got me banned from the authors cairn  discord.  He apparently didn't like my criticisms of his creation.

Oh well.  Look on itch.io for more add-ons.  Oh and the cairn support website, there's several add-ons there too

Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2025, 08:39:44 PMSo I got Cairn, the 1st edition and also the 2nd Player's Guide off Amazon for less than $10 total.

I'm not very familiar with Cairn. Are the 1st and 2nd editions compatible?  If you buy those two products you mention, do you have a full (and fully compatible) game?

Quote from: Crusader X on February 02, 2025, 11:25:42 PM

Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2025, 08:39:44 PMSo I got Cairn, the 1st edition and also the 2nd Player's Guide off Amazon for less than $10 total.

I'm not very familiar with Cairn. Are the 1st and 2nd editions compatible?  If you buy those two products you mention, do you have a full (and fully compatible) game?

No idea if they're compatible but they're both free legally.  2e is up on drivethru and the first edition is linked on their website to a google drive.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/500476/cairn-player-s-guide-2nd-edition

Monster Of The Week was out of print for quite some time until they padded it a bit, made a new cover, marked up the price, and had the motivation to sell it again. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but certainly reprints and second editions can end up fluffy for a real motivator to do a reprint. It could also help ensure a longer copyright/trademark date into the future. Trademarks can expire if they're not actively utilized.

I think a Cairn/Knave hybridization would work for light gaming as neither is that deep of a game. Maybe a 2-3 session campaign. I found games like Swords and Six-Siders to be better for the same thing.

Up until recently, I was a player at a Cairn 1e game for about a year (the game is still going).
I'd say it take a specific kind of GM and group to really carry a long campaign in it.
Personally, I'd opt for Mausritter/ Crowns for a more complete feeling game with a similar base.
There's also Block, Dodge,Parry that add crunch to it (there's a free SRD that has enough to get a feel for it).

I think 2e has better explanations about the mindset and I like the backgrounds, omens etc. Nothing that can't be easily ported over elsewhere.

The recent hubbub with trying to throw Ben Milton under the bus pretty much killed my unterest in it completely. I don't like people who are for silencing others. The PDFs are free on itch.io

Quote from: a_wanderer on February 03, 2025, 05:23:54 AMUp until recently, I was a player at a Cairn 1e game for about a year (the game is still going).
I'd say it take a specific kind of GM and group to really carry a long campaign in it.
Personally, I'd opt for Mausritter/ Crowns for a more complete feeling game with a similar base.
There's also Block, Dodge,Parry that add crunch to it (there's a free SRD that has enough to get a feel for it).

I think 2e has better explanations about the mindset and I like the backgrounds, omens etc. Nothing that can't be easily ported over elsewhere.

The recent hubbub with trying to throw Ben Milton under the bus pretty much killed my unterest in it completely. I don't like people who are for silencing others. The PDFs are free on itch.io

Wait what did he do with Ben Milton

Quote from: Slambo on February 03, 2025, 09:39:39 AMWait what did he do with Ben Milton

He DARED sending a review copy of his latest adventure to Ben, that used to have The Red Room as a sponsor- they trolled some people that complained aabout them being a sponsor on the Questing Beast channel,so naturally the offended demanded answers feom Ben who said he wish to stay a-political, apparently a "dog whistle" that is cause enough to demand boycotting him, and the crazed mob went hard for Yochai for sending Ben the review copy (which is so ironic, Yochai is VERY progressive), so much so that he left BlueSky, not before bending the knee and saying maybe Ben should be boycotted.

Deranged people eating their own

I liked reading through the first one, but the guy is very obviously a liberal and I don't trust anything he says or makes

Cairn is the latest attempt to reinvent the wheel when it comes to OSR. The reality is that we are swimming in retro clones and OSR lite games. Once you own one of them, you pretty much have everything you need, but that doesn't make money, so once a month we have a new Kickstarter project that gets over hyped. Similar or better items can be found cheaper at DTRPG or Itch but it's not the latest fad.

Okay, so it's not just me...

Quote from: a_wanderer on February 03, 2025, 10:48:55 AM

Quote from: Slambo on February 03, 2025, 09:39:39 AMWait what did he do with Ben Milton

He DARED sending a review copy of his latest adventure to Ben, that used to have The Red Room as a sponsor- they trolled some people that complained aabout them being a sponsor on the Questing Beast channel,so naturally the offended demanded answers feom Ben who said he wish to stay a-political, apparently a "dog whistle" that is cause enough to demand boycotting him, and the crazed mob went hard for Yochai for sending Ben the review copy (which is so ironic, Yochai is VERY progressive), so much so that he left BlueSky, not before bending the knee and saying maybe Ben should be boycotted.

Deranged people eating their own

That's too bad. I've watched a few Questing Beast videos and Ben seems like a real affable guy. So he threw Ben under the bus. What a douche.