Rogues in most games are just stealthy pickpockets (or in D&D 4e - combat acrobats) and you can only build the character into a rapscallion of note by PLAYING it out. I'm totally into roleplaying all the flouncy witty but scheming stuff but I want to know -
Is their a system that really lends itself to the cunning ne'er-do-well or manipulative courtier with a magpie's eye for the prize and his fingers itching for the lady's baubles?
(I never played through a duel of wits in Burning Wheel - is that any good ?)
(I was thinking of the roles played by actors like Terry Thomas or Leslie Phillips - rather than Bruce Willis as Hudson Hawk)
Surely there's more to it than +1 Charm or storytelling - "I get +1 success for twirling my moustache"
(Dear Mr Mearls, can I call you Mike, I feel I know you so well from your blog - in my hearts of hearts I want 'Carry On Dungeoneering' - "Ooohh Patron !")
Quote from: SeanRogues in most games are just stealthy pickpockets (or in D&D 4e - combat acrobats) and you can only build the character into a rapscallion of note by PLAYING it out. I'm totally into roleplaying all the flouncy witty but scheming stuff but I want to know -
Is their a system that really lends itself to the cunning ne'er-do-well or manipulative courtier with a magpie's eye for the prize and his fingers itching for the lady's baubles?
(I never played through a duel of wits in Burning Wheel - is that any good ?)
(I was thinking of the roles played by actors like Terry Thomas or Leslie Phillips - rather than Bruce Willis as Hudson Hawk)
Surely there's more to it than +1 Charm or storytelling - "I get +1 success for twirling my moustache"
Dying Earth RPG?
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceDying Earth RPG?
-clash
I was going to say that too.
You can check out the quickstart rules here (http://www.dyingearth.com/downloads.htm)
Quote from: SeanIs their a system that really lends itself to the cunning ne'er-do-well or manipulative courtier with a magpie's eye for the prize and his fingers itching for the lady's baubles?
Cyberpunk and Shadowrun do a fair job of it ... though you won't get the spotlight that comes from being the ONLY scoundrel in an otherwise honest group.
The Dying Earth RPG would be my first choice. And you can get enough free material from the website to last you a good while. :cool:
Some sort of Three Musketeers rpg (En Garde? 7th Sea? ?).
The Wuthering Heights RPG (http://philippe.tromeur.free.fr/whrpg.htm) might also work for this. ::keke:
Dying Earth is precisely the right rpg for this, the OP may as well have said "hey, could you recommend me the Dying Earth rpg?"
I'd note that the free quickstart is genuinely all you need for play, it's a full rpg, and in fact IMO better than the complete rules. The complete rules add needless complexity and don't actually make a better game, I sold my rulebook and kept the quickstart.
It's unfortunate for them, but it is one of those very rare cases where the quickstart really is all you really want.
You knew I was going to say it - so I might as well...
GURPS had/has a WHOLE book dedicated to that kind of character type, its even called GURPS:ROGUES.
Here:
(http://www.warehouse23.com/img/full/SJG6413.jpg)
Quote from: BalbinusDying Earth is precisely the right rpg for this, the OP may as well have said "hey, could you recommend me the Dying Earth rpg?"
That's what I immediately thought of! :O
-clash
Straight off the top of my head, I'd say Dying Earth.
And, looking over the previous posts, so would a number of others. :)
!i!
Dying Earth is good. I had an excellent time in Lace and Steel playing a distinctly unstealthy centaur ne'er-do-well wannabe who was just suave enough to curry favor with the ladies and avoid prosecution. Not that he completely avoided his just comeuppance . . .
Lace and Steel did that sort of thing well.
Quote from: KoltarGURPS had/has a WHOLE book dedicated to that kind of character type, its even called GURPS:ROGUES.
Isn't that just a book of templates though? I'd go for Gurps Scarlet Pimpernel (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/ScarletPimpernel/) or Swashbucklers (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Swashbucklers/) instead.
Sadly there is no Gurps Flashman. Gurps Steampunk doesn't come close. :p
I too was going to say Dying Earth, but Burning Wheel can also do it well. I'm running a solo game for a friend which is heavily inspired by the work of Jack Vance, and I've found the system fits nicely with my needs. Duels of Wits are not for everyone, but in this case, they work a treat, making a battle of wits just as exciting as a swordfight. The main sticking point for you might be that the Let it Ride rule can short-change sneaky thief type scoundrels somewhat.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate you answering
and those DE quickstart rules are a steal. :)
Iron Heroes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Heroes), an alternate low(or rather dangerous)-magic d20 player's handbook features a Thief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Heroes#Thief) class that has class abilities like Alias (different identities), the ability to draw a weapon and strike first in a non-combat situation, Beguiling flattery, Lord of lies and other stuff.
He's quite the social skills Scroundel, complete with multi-tiered feats like Devious Manipulator, Overwhelming Presence and Political Mastermind.
But then again, d20 might not be your cup of soup.
I word of advice when dealing with DERPG: pay close attention to weaknesses. Rogues are often victims of their own impulses. When a player says "No way am I going to seduce the squire's daughter he'll cut my nuts off!" or "The temple's too well guarded to attempt this heist." you make them roll on the appropriate weakness.
Ned
Quote from: Ned the Lonely DonkeyWhen a player says "No way am I going to seduce the squire's daughter he'll cut my nuts off!" or "The temple's too well guarded to attempt this heist." you make them roll on the appropriate weakness.
But, but...that detracts from player free will. That's outrageous! Player characters should be in total, concious control of their impulses, just like in real life.
!i!
Heh, indeed!
Ned