Yes, it was all in use before Greyhawk.

So?

I choose not to use it; I have found that simplification outweighs other considerations for me.  Others may choose otherwise.  The Gaming Police aren't going to kick down anybody's doors.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;860439Yes, it was all in use before Greyhawk.

So?

I choose not to use it; I have found that simplification outweighs other considerations for me.  Others may choose otherwise.  The Gaming Police aren't going to kick down anybody's doors.

So? Who's saying they are?

So, just how absurdly irrational do you make it? Or, if the length of a pugio vs. a gladius vs. a spatha commonly matters in combat, then how?

My own take would be that it's a lot more complicated to keep track of a long list of costs and weights, and then of continually changing encumbrance, than to have 3 or even 4 different weapon effectiveness factors (a single one being applicable to the majority of common equipments).

Likewise, it's more complicated (and may veer into the dull) to lay a lot of picky little considerations on top of the clean abstraction of the D&D combat system -- which tends to get messy indeed when that stuff just doesn't mesh with the underlying assumptions as well as it would for instance with RuneQuest.

I don't dice it that fine.  In a one minute combat round the difference between a shortsword and a longsword doesn't matter much, and I'm wiling to ignore the amount it does matter.

It simply is not important to me.  I don't CARE.  And if for some reason it does become important, I'm willing to use my study, judgement, and experience to make a ruling.  I'll let somebody try to hack a padlock off with a greatsword but not a dagger because I'm not grotesquely stupid.

I've done the umpty bazillion types of weapons.  I even subdivided swords using Oakeshott's classification, with something like five or six subtypes of one handed longswords, not including the war sword, estoc, and cinquedea.

I found it doesn't matter.  Nobody cares, it doesn't make the game more fun, and it slows things down.

Most people are simply content to play the game on a very abstract level, and the more I simplify combat, the more they pay attention to other things.

One man's "irrationality" is another man's "And then the EARS, I get the IDEA, get ON with it."

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;860448I don't dice it that fine. ...

Maybe this really needs to be spelled out:

Do you charge various cash prices and weight costs, as in Vol. 1?

I understand paying 10 gp for a sword, because it says, "I blew almost a year of a peasant's wages on this gewgaw." It's like an Apple iRonmongery.

Gotta wonder, though, who's making spears to sell for 1 gp when just the business end is a dagger selling for 3 times as much.

Quote from: Phillip;860453Maybe this really needs to be spelled out:

Do you charge various cash prices and weight costs, as in Vol. 1?

Yes.  Always have.

And you know what?  NOBODY'S EVER WORRIED ABOUT IT.

Quote from: Phillip;860457I understand paying 10 gp for a sword, because it says, "I blew almost a year of a peasant's wages on this gewgaw." It's like an Apple iRonmongery.

Gotta wonder, though, who's making spears to sell for 1 gp when just the business end is a dagger selling for 3 times as much.

I more wonder why I should worry about it when my first trip to the dungeon nets me 500GP.

It's a game, not a world simulation.  And it works that way because it made the game play the way Gary wanted it to, and I'm fine with the way it works.

Mileage, vary, et cetera.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;860461I more wonder why I should worry about it when my first trip to the dungeon nets me 500GP.

I more wonder why I should worry about it in the first place when it's a needless and senseless complication.

QuoteIt's a game, not a world simulation.  And it works that way because it made the game play the way Gary wanted it to, and I'm fine with the way it works.

Mileage, vary, et cetera.

It's a game, and Gary made it the way he wanted to, which included a lot of stuff that he's not the only one to say works better together than haphazardly hacked apart. And a lot of people are fine with the way that works, and indeed prefer it.

Mileage, vary, et cetera. Shouldn't be news to you that your pissy attitude gets attention; probably that's the purpose.

This isn't a pissy attitude, it's a casual attitude.  If you don't like it, feel free to ignore me.

I think a lot of people worry about shit that doesn't affect the game.

So if I was a player in your game and I balked at counting GP for buying supplies? It's pointless bean-counting after the first expedition, no?

Quote from: Arminius;860472So if I was a player in your game and I balked at counting GP for buying supplies? It's pointless bean-counting after the first expedition, no?

Define supplies.  Also notice that there is an "allowance for living expenses" that would take care of most ordinary stuff.

And if I'd known that having all weapons do the same damage would piss people off this much, I'd have started doing it ages ago and talking about it more.

Yes, we all noticed way back in 1973 that daggers and swords cost different amounts and did the same damage.

Amazingly, nobody thought anything of it.  And my players and I still don't.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;860473Define supplies.  Also notice that there is an "allowance for living expenses" that would take care of most ordinary stuff.

And if I'd known that having all weapons do the same damage would piss people off this much, I'd have started doing it ages ago and talking about it more.

See, what pisses people off this much isn't having all weapons do the same damage; it's that you're the kind of creature who wants to piss people off just to piss people off.

I'm not pissed off. I know Gronan's schtick and I make allowances for it; my question was contentious but mainly just conversation.

Actually, I can't entirely figure out how the discussion took this turn.

FWIW, when I played 0e circa 1976-77, I remember that after the 1st adventure it was typical for MUs to walk around wearing plate armor (either it wasn't forbidden or it wasn't spelled out prominently enough) and carrying daggers, and I was personally annoyed that daggers & other weapons were indistinguishable in combat BtB. I couldn't find Chainmail anywhere in my area.

Greyhawk was a huge improvement in my eyes, adding just enough mechanical teeth to the world-simulation. (I thought AD&D would be even better but in retrospect I don't think it really added much in terms of mechanics, probably even subtracted a bit for me personally.)

Quote from: Arminius;860480Actually, I can't entirely figure out how the discussion took this turn.

Not quite sure myself.  I remarked casually that I had stopped using different damage.  I nowhere said that anyone else should do the same, or that they were wrong for not using my system.