Quote from: drkrash;8594431) Traps. In B/X, a trap is activated on a 1-2 on d6. Do you use this? On the one hand, they make dungeons a little less dangerous...except when the party fails to activate one, and then retreats out the dungeon the same way it suddenly grabs them. Seems like a dick move.

No, it's not a "dick move." I am so fucking sick of hearing that.  The goddamned dungeon is SUPPOSED to be dangerous.

I bet a dollar that a bunch of ten year old kids would take that rule with more grace and maturity than your typical bunch of gamers.

It's good to see that my own perspective on how this is supposed to work according to the rules is accurate.

Of course, the many examples of a pit trap here are the best example.  The actual trap that made me think about this, however, was different: it was a chest that, when opened, activated a falling spear trap.  If the trap hit, it did 1d6 damage.  But if it activated, there was a save to avoid damage.

BUT there is also the 2 in 6 activation to see if it even activates at all.  Unlike a pit, there isn't a marching order to progress over it with multiple possible activations, nor an escape back through the same path.  In this situation, they opened the chest, the trap didn't go off...and then they didn't trust the treasure for another couple minutes.  They weren't going to try opening and closing the chest multiple times.  So nothing happened.  And that's what got me to wondering if I was doing this the "right" way.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;859690No, it's not a "dick move." I am so fucking sick of hearing that.  The goddamned dungeon is SUPPOSED to be dangerous.

I bet a dollar that a bunch of ten year old kids would take that rule with more grace and maturity than your typical bunch of gamers.

Just to clarify: none of the players nor me as DM actually called it a dick move.  Nor have I ever heard anyone else ever say that, which is why I asked about how to handle it, *as it could be perceived by someone as that and I wanted to know how to apply the rule correctly since I haven't played this version of the rules in 35 years.*  That's all.  I'm sorry that the phrase "dick move" was evidently a trigger for your vitriol.

Oh, you must not read many online forums.  They are full of people bitching about the D&D rules as being full of "dick moves."

"Dick Moves" apparently being defined as "anything that causes my character more than momentary inconvenience."

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...-Rust-Monsters

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...ngs-in-D-amp-D

And which led me to say this elsewhere:

I guess what really pisses me off is this attitude of Gary sitting around in his penthouse office on the 1000000th floor of TSR Towers in Lake Geneva, sitting at his desk while wearing his Armani suit, smoking hand rolled Cuban cigars lit with thousand-dollar bills and sipping single malt chilled with ice made from the tears of players whose characters died in Tomb of Horrors, and thinking up new ways to "screw the players" -- essentially, working hard to make the game un-fun.

At some point it's not even that Gary was my friend, it's the whole notion of somebody deliberately designing a game that they know will not be fun. It's an asinine -- nay, an inane -- idea. It's idiocy; it's just plain stupid; it's an amazing case of "Are you actually reading the words you're typing?"

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;859697Oh, you must not read many online forums.  They are full of people bitching about the D&D rules as being full of "dick moves."

"Dick Moves" apparently being defined as "anything that causes my character more than momentary inconvenience."

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...-Rust-Monsters

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...ngs-in-D-amp-D

And which led me to say this elsewhere:

I guess what really pisses me off is this attitude of Gary sitting around in his penthouse office on the 1000000th floor of TSR Towers in Lake Geneva, sitting at his desk while wearing his Armani suit, smoking hand rolled Cuban cigars lit with thousand-dollar bills and sipping single malt chilled with ice made from the tears of players whose characters died in Tomb of Horrors, and thinking up new ways to "screw the players" -- essentially, working hard to make the game un-fun.

At some point it's not even that Gary was my friend, it's the whole notion of somebody deliberately designing a game that they know will not be fun. It's an asinine -- nay, an inane -- idea. It's idiocy; it's just plain stupid; it's an amazing case of "Are you actually reading the words you're typing?"

Nope.  Not aware of any of this.  Just came back to B/X, like I said, for the 1st time in 35 years.  Have had no reason to pay attention to said conversations.  Just trying to parse something out for myself based on my own experiences and thought I'd ask a question.  Didn't think the question I asked required the rage response.

That wasn't rage, that was mild pique.

Welcome to the forum.

Yeah, there is that shtick of people talking like Dave and Gary weren't having fun with their friends but were trying to make up something not fun. It's really a matter of some (many?) people getting their kicks a different way.

Some people loathe playing Football, or Defender, or Advanced Squad Leader. The games, though, were designed by and for people who enjoyed them a lot.

Quote from: Phillip;859710Yeah, there is that shtick of people talking like Dave and Gary weren't having fun with their friends but were trying to make up something not fun. It's really a matter of some (many?) people getting their kicks a different way.

Some people loathe playing Football, or Defender, or Advanced Squad Leader. The games, though, were designed by and for people who enjoyed them a lot.

Exactly.  The game is about making choices, and we thought difficult choices were more fun than easy ones.

Like the things that lived in doors and burrowed into your ear if you listened at the door.  We thought that made things MORE fun, because if you can always listen at a door, it makes doors LESS interesting, not MORE.

It also makes the ESP spell, ESP medallion, X ray vision ring, crystal ball, etc, much more valuable.

Quote from: drkrash;859698Nope.  Not aware of any of this.  Just came back to B/X, like I said, for the 1st time in 35 years.  Have had no reason to pay attention to said conversations.  Just trying to parse something out for myself based on my own experiences and thought I'd ask a question.  Didn't think the question I asked required the rage response.

A canned response with links rarely has anything to do with the poster to whom it is addressed. You just rolled a 1-2 and set off the "I knew EGG," blather trap.

Quote from: drkrash;859692BUT there is also the 2 in 6 activation to see if it even activates at all.  Unlike a pit, there isn't a marching order to progress over it with multiple possible activations, nor an escape back through the same path.  In this situation, they opened the chest, the trap didn't go off...and then they didn't trust the treasure for another couple minutes.  They weren't going to try opening and closing the chest multiple times.  So nothing happened.  And that's what got me to wondering if I was doing this the "right" way.

Correct. If only one person handles the trapped chest and it doesnt trigger and they empty it and leave. Then thats is. But if they take it with them as a carrying box not knowing its trapped. Then every time someone opens it theres a chance its going to trigger finally. Once its triggered though thats probably it. Probably. Others might keep triggering like the scythe.

I've never been a big trap guy. But when I have used them in R/C (CLose enough to B/X for our purposes) I have the character make a save vs paralysis. Succeed, avoid the trap. Fail blammo trap sprung. Just the way I've done it. This is with the caveat, that there is no thief in the group. If theirs a thief, he better be thiefing:)

I like the 2-in-6 trigger simply because it's always struck me as highly doubtful that pseudo-medieval traps, often involving shifting tons of carefully counterbalanced rock, worked flawlessly every time.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;859697Oh, you must not read many online forums.  They are full of people bitching about the D&D rules as being full of "dick moves."

"Dick Moves" apparently being defined as "anything that causes my character more than momentary inconvenience."

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...-Rust-Monsters

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?...ngs-in-D-amp-D

And which led me to say this elsewhere:

I guess what really pisses me off is this attitude of Gary sitting around in his penthouse office on the 1000000th floor of TSR Towers in Lake Geneva, sitting at his desk while wearing his Armani suit, smoking hand rolled Cuban cigars lit with thousand-dollar bills and sipping single malt chilled with ice made from the tears of players whose characters died in Tomb of Horrors, and thinking up new ways to "screw the players" -- essentially, working hard to make the game un-fun.

At some point it's not even that Gary was my friend, it's the whole notion of somebody deliberately designing a game that they know will not be fun. It's an asinine -- nay, an inane -- idea. It's idiocy; it's just plain stupid; it's an amazing case of "Are you actually reading the words you're typing?"

Oh these things, the DM's FUCK YOU monsters.  Where in a system that actually had issues with needing special items to actually deal with certain monsters.  Now, I don't know about B/X so it may be a non-issue, but in AD&D (both editions) there were certain monsters that needed high level weapons (by which I mean +1 or higher) to actually hit.

Now, bear in mind, a Fighter's defense ability to avoid damage is DIRECTLY tied whatever armour they're wearing.  And Rust Monster is designed to make the Fighter types (Ranger if they're wearing chain and using weapons, as opposed to a bow, Paladin -classic Knight in Plate with a Great Weapon, anyone?  And of course, the Fighter) useless assuming you're going up against said creatures that need +1 magical weapons (should you have any.)

Remember, for example, Rust Monster do NOT give up.  Ever.  And if your players broke all the doors open so they could get out of the dungeon in case something goes wrong, well..  Guess what, the Fighter (the only class that actually needs all that metal) is kinda fucked!  Oh, and if they find more metal along the way, that's gone too!

Remember, in Gronan Land, losing a character is just losing your little playing piece in Monopoly.  It's at worst an inconvenience, at best it's time to try out another class.  Doesn't matter if the character is one day or five years old, you put aside the little race car and pick up the iron and keep on going.

However, it may not be that big a deal in B/X, as you may not need to actually face monster that require special items.  And if you're smart, the Fighter's there to take all the damage anyway, it's just a player controlled Henchmen at best.  The real heroes of D&D have always been the Magic Users, after all.  They just need a meat-wall to stay safe while they solve all the problems.

But hey, removing one part of the party's ability to actually feel like their playing a game in Gronan-Land is the REAL fun, and if you're not crushing your players mercilessly, you're doing it wrong.

Apparently.  Or something.

In BX there were no demons in the boxed sets.

In B, lycanthropes were not immune to non-silver weapons and the only creature I saw at a quick glance needing magic to hit it was the Wight. (But it was also damagable by silver weapons.) Rust monsters are present. But are infrequent and are not persistent.

In X though introduced a number of monsters requiring magic or silver to harm. These are though all later in the game and the PCs by then should be at least a little more equipped to handle such threats.

Which is the key here even in AD&D. A good DM does not throw unbeatable monsters at players with no ways out if that is the case. In BX though you could try to talk anything into liking you. Friendship was better than Magic!

Quote from: Christopher Brady;859794Oh these things, the DM's FUCK YOU monsters.  Where in a system that actually had issues with needing special items to actually deal with certain monsters.  Now, I don't know about B/X so it may be a non-issue, but in AD&D (both editions) there were certain monsters that needed high level weapons (by which I mean +1 or higher) to actually hit.

Now, bear in mind, a Fighter's defense ability to avoid damage is DIRECTLY tied whatever armour they're wearing.  And Rust Monster is designed to make the Fighter types (Ranger if they're wearing chain and using weapons, as opposed to a bow, Paladin -classic Knight in Plate with a Great Weapon, anyone?  And of course, the Fighter) useless assuming you're going up against said creatures that need +1 magical weapons (should you have any.)

Remember, for example, Rust Monster do NOT give up.  Ever.  And if your players broke all the doors open so they could get out of the dungeon in case something goes wrong, well..  Guess what, the Fighter (the only class that actually needs all that metal) is kinda fucked!  Oh, and if they find more metal along the way, that's gone too!

Remember, in Gronan Land, losing a character is just losing your little playing piece in Monopoly.  It's at worst an inconvenience, at best it's time to try out another class.  Doesn't matter if the character is one day or five years old, you put aside the little race car and pick up the iron and keep on going.

However, it may not be that big a deal in B/X, as you may not need to actually face monster that require special items.  And if you're smart, the Fighter's there to take all the damage anyway, it's just a player controlled Henchmen at best.  The real heroes of D&D have always been the Magic Users, after all.  They just need a meat-wall to stay safe while they solve all the problems.

But hey, removing one part of the party's ability to actually feel like their playing a game in Gronan-Land is the REAL fun, and if you're not crushing your players mercilessly, you're doing it wrong.

Apparently.  Or something.

WWWAAAAAAAGGGHHHH!!!!!!!   A rust monster ate my armor!!

Rust monsters are hungry but not very bright. They can be lured away with some iron spikes and trapped somewhere.

If the answer to every problem is "stand here and swing my sword" then the game gets boring really fast.

Quote from: Omega;859813In BX there were no demons in the boxed sets.

In B, lycanthropes were not immune to non-silver weapons and the only creature I saw at a quick glance needing magic to hit it was the Wight. (But it was also damagable by silver weapons.) Rust monsters are present. But are infrequent and are not persistent.

In X though introduced a number of monsters requiring magic or silver to harm. These are though all later in the game and the PCs by then should be at least a little more equipped to handle such threats.

Which is the key here even in AD&D. A good DM does not throw unbeatable monsters at players with no ways out if that is the case. In BX though you could try to talk anything into liking you. Friendship was better than Magic!

B/X lycanthropes required silver or magical weapons to hit IF they were in beast form. The human form could be attacked normally. In any form if you hit them with a bunch of wolvesbane they had to save vs poison or run away in fear.

Wolfsbane was on the standard equipment list and only cost 10gp a bunch.