I've been thinking about running this game, and have some questions before I set out.  Specifically, I'm wondering about how to handle character generation, since this game doesn't have a clearly defined idea of what a "default" starting character looks like.  Do you set a standard number of lifepaths (like, 4 or something)?  Is it a problem that this can produce anything from an indentured servant to a thousand-year-old elven prince, or do you consider things balanced by the fact that anyone can choose any path -- or do you not worry about balance at all?

I haven't run it yet, but I think most people set a number of lifepaths. I'm not sure that balance would be a problem if you left it open.

Quote from: droogI haven't run it yet, but I think most people set a number of lifepaths.

Okay, but what number?  (Even if the answer varies, I'm looking for a GURPS-style "this number for a campaign of this level, this number for a campaign of that level" answer.)

Here we go: Chr Burner p14.

Two lifepaths is a novice, five is a veteran. It suggests 3-4 for a starting character.

Quote from: droogHere we go: Chr Burner p14.

Two lifepaths is a novice, five is a veteran. It suggests 3-4 for a starting character.

D'oh!  I can't believe I missed that.  Thanks for telling me.

As for balance... I guess the premise is that since the players can pick whatever they want, it doesn't matter if some choices have wildly disparate competence levels?  (Since presumably, the players won't pick anything they don't want to play?)

I'd say so. We should have more of these discussions – I'm just feeling my way around the rules myself.

As well, I don't think the game is intended for an old-skool "here's the scenario, now defeat the opposition" play-style. I.e., I think it's supposed to be very character-centric, with the in-game challenges arising either from PC decisions, or from the character's Beliefs.

I can see things going too far in that direction (at least for my tastes) but as I consider how to run the game I'm working on a somewhat "characters first, campaign second" sort of model.

Quote from: droogI haven't run it yet, but I think most people set a number of lifepaths.

I gather that this is what the author suggests. IIRC, the recommended number of lifepaths for a newbie game is anywhere from 3-5. I haven't played BW: R yet, but I very much want to. Oddly, I played Classic and thought it far over-hyped. I intensely disliked it. BW:R looks like a whole different game, though -- and I like what I see. Oink.

4 lifepath characters seem to be standard for most BW games. You end up with well-rounded competent characters.

3 lifepath characters are usually pretty decent at one (and I mean one) thing, have crappy equipment, few Relationships, Reputations, and Affiliations, and piss-poor Resources. They advance really quickly, though, and can still be a lot of fun.

Burning Wheel characters aren't really balanced as far as personal power is concerned. Elves and dwarves range from slightly to extremely more powerful than their human counterpoints, depending on the particulars of the lifepaths taken. If you're GMing a group of BWers, it's a good idea to judiciously use your veto power when it comes to characters, otherwise you can end up with a situation where one player constantly outshines the others.

The whole Belief, Instinct, Trait reward cycle works best when you've sat down with the players and worked up the theme of the campaign together and made sure that everyone has addressed the theme through their Beliefs. (when I say theme I just mean "what the game is about") If you don't do this, you are most likely fucking your game up before it ever gets off the ground.

Tim

Quote from: jdrakehBW:R looks like a whole different game, though -- and I like what I see. Oink.

Do you (or does anyone, for that matter) know what changed between the original and the revised?  or know where I could find the info?

Thanks..

Quote from: rcsampleDo you (or does anyone, for that matter) know what changed between the original and the revised?  or know where I could find the info?

Thanks..

The biggest change is, of course, the introduction of the Duel of Wits mechanic -- a resolution system for tactically plotted parley. Honestly, without these rules, the Burning Wheel isn't much more than Yet Another Fantasy Game. The Duel of Wits rules set it apart from nearly all other fantasy games currently published, with the notable exception of Exalted 2e -- and BW:R manages to do social combat much better than Exalted (IMO).

The other changes that I'm aware of are the excision of the pace counting method used in melee combat to determine distance, and the introduction of abstract weapon lengths. It makes the highly simulationist Fight! rules feel a bit less "gamey" which, for me, makes them more attractive.

I'm sure that there are several other, more subtle changes, though my experience with the game in actual play is limited so far. . .

Everything that Tim says, especially this part.

Quote from: TimThe whole Belief, Instinct, Trait reward cycle works best when you've sat down with the players and worked up the theme of the campaign together and made sure that everyone has addressed the theme through their Beliefs. (when I say theme I just mean "what the game is about") If you don't do this, you are most likely fucking your game up before it ever gets off the ground.

Also make sure the Beliefs are very concrete and very action orientated, or at least the main one that is the tie that binds between all the PC. They make things a lot easier for new players than abstract concepts.

"The wizard Jenkins is my mortal enemy, I will gut him like the slimy fish he is." - good
"I don't like wizards." - not so good

The BW forum has really good support. Once you have the full slate of Beliefs toss them up there in their Clinic sub-forum and you'll get some good tips on any potential problem spots.

Re:Changes from BWC; I never played it, but my understanding is that it didn't have Circles which contains my most favourite rule from any RPG. The Emnity Clause.  Oh, and apparently they didn't have the different flavours of Artha which tended to lead to people milking one type of artha source and ignoring the others.  All in all I'm not sure I would have thought that much of it either.

That's funny about the number of default lifepaths. Burning Empires was pretty good at giving the guidelines for number of paths, but it's much higher.... seven or so I recall, with the possiblity of going to, er, ten? If you like starting with no Artha...

Quote from: SpikeThat's funny about the number of default lifepaths. Burning Empires was pretty good at giving the guidelines for number of paths, but it's much higher.... seven or so I recall, with the possiblity of going to, er, ten? If you like starting with no Artha...

Well, I think the assumption for Burning Empires is that you're going to be playing movers and shakers: planetary governors, fleet commanders, 5 star generals, and the like. Plus the short lifepath times reflect the relative social mobility of a more modern society.

In Burning Wheel, at least for the very medieval humans, you're looking at old age by the time you're in your mid-30s, and the lifepaths tend to take 5-7 years.

Quote from: TimWell, I think the assumption for Burning Empires is that you're going to be playing movers and shakers: planetary governors, fleet commanders, 5 star generals, and the like.

Bingo! There is actually a section in the Character Burner near the front that talks about LP and how many. I'd give a page # but I've lent my book out to a friend.

Going from memory the upper range they talk about is 8. Even a 6 LP character is quite powerful compared to 4 LP, although the power is usually more in breadth than peak.  When you get up to 8 LP you are talking about real movers and shakers. Could easily play the concept of a rich Baron for example if you concentrate in the Noble LPs. Throwing 5 or 6 Grey dice for Resources (or B10 if the shade shift was nixed...booo ), and literally Circling up small armies. Plus have a personal platoon bodyguard at all times (for 10 rp take a 6 LP cohort focusing in the Military LPs and make him the Platoon Commander).

EDIT: Almost forgot, in BW the guidelines for starting Artha go up the more LPs a character has. So the suggested starting Artha (for non-stingy campaigns) for LP 8 is F 4 P 3 D 1. If you actually went up to 10 LP they'd start with 2 Deeds Artha, which is nigh unholy.