Greetings!
I usually draw up a simple map, showing most of the commercial and public buildings, and most of the inhabitant's houses. Then I create the village history, common and unusual resources, and the dominant culture. Then the dominant and secondary religions, as well as any locally organized cults. From there, I fill in the primary trade resources as well as trade and crafting specialties. Then, it is fairly easy to determine a good number of prominent, wealthy families--serving as the elite, and the power-brokers of the society. Selecting or determining a leader, of whatever kind, is then also an easy exercise. Then, I create about a dozen or so prominent people--blacksmiths, carpenters, a few priests, a General Goods Merchant, a Miller, some boatmen, a few Tavern Keepers, a Leatherworker, a Rope Merchant, and a few other particular merchants and tradesmen. Then I use some random tables to quickly generate about two dozen farmers, local tribal members, hunters, fishermen, some milk girls, shepherds, a few adolescents, and some village elders.
After determining these details, many aspects of the history, the local culture, religions, and economy, all combine to easily form natural power-centers, traditions, and strong factions amongst the community. Any tension points or areas of conflict typically reveal themselves as well, should any exist. After all, many villages are very strong and united, and may not have any kind of rebels or schisms, let alone any kind of counter-culture.
I have this system down, where literally dozens of villages can be generated rather quickly, and a kind of geographical and cultural quilt develops. From such a foundation, it is an easy matter to select a particular village, and add additional bizarre details or weird features. I also review any such village, and as appropriate, assign various magical features, or other strange aspects going on in the local area.
How do you build and detail villages in your campaigns?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I have a hard time picturing unwalled villages in most fantasy settings because they would be too vulnerable to monsters (of various types). For the same reason, I have a hard time envisioning large numbers of true non-combatants. At the very least, any able-bodied individual should have militia training.
If I want to do it with a map, I start there.
d4+1 main cross roads running east to west
d4+1 main cross roads running north to south
d8+4 squares (~20 ft) length for each segment of road.
This will first be drawn as a draft, once I have an idea of exactly how all the roads intersect, I adjust the map to make the roads as straight as possible.
For each square adjacent to the road, there's a 50/50 chance it is occupied by a building. Sometimes an additional road will seem likely based on a pattern of absence of buildings. Once all roads and buildings are drawn, I fill in surrounding terrain.
Estimated population is roughly 4 occupants per building.
I keep Richard Cantillon's Essai and Gary Gygax's World Builder on hand.
It's extremely helpful to have at least basic working knowledge of Cantillon. I turn to World Builder to get an estimate as far as acreage of farmland and what sorts of farms and some demographic breakdown.
From there, I note the locations of important shops and NPCs, generate stats for important NPCs. Determine inventory for important shops (villages aren't going to have everything you'll want). At a minimum, to be functional for RPG purposes, there will have to be a church, a general store, and a trader.
Quote from: Lunamancer on July 24, 2022, 01:05:41 AM
I adjust the map to make the roads as straight as possible.
Now we see the fantasy element. IRL, many roads were not as straight as possible.
Quote from: HappyDaze on July 24, 2022, 01:11:15 AM
Now we see the fantasy element. IRL, many roads were not as straight as possible.
We both know you didn't actually go through the method I outlined a few times to see what kind of roads that it produces to understand that they need straightening out to look more like real roads. There wasn't enough time elapsed between my post and yours for that to be possible.
And what does "many roads were not as straight as possible" even mean? How many roads are there in the world? Millions? You could say "many roads were" and fill in the blank with just about anything and make a statement that is technically correct but utterly useless.
Quote from: Lunamancer on July 24, 2022, 01:37:55 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on July 24, 2022, 01:11:15 AM
Now we see the fantasy element. IRL, many roads were not as straight as possible.
We both know you didn't actually go through the method I outlined a few times to see what kind of roads that it produces to understand that they need straightening out to look more like real roads. There wasn't enough time elapsed between my post and yours for that to be possible.
And what does "many roads were not as straight as possible" even mean? How many roads are there in the world? Millions? You could say "many roads were" and fill in the blank with just about anything and make a statement that is technically correct but utterly useless.
You didn't give us enough information to understand how you were getting straight or non-straight roads, just a number of roads and their lengths. It's impossible to go through the method you outlined without assuming a bunch of other steps, like, "where does one place the roads"? So "roads as straight as possible" was simultaneously un-understandable, and a statement that sounds like you're making a strong assumption about what your settlement is like.
I prefer a macro-worldbuilding approach.
I decide what the general politics, religion, sensibilities, etc. are over a wide geographic region (like a whole country, kingdom, whatever), and assume that everyone within the region follows those general strictures. Variations and outliers exist as I need them for the story. I rarely plot out cities and villages to such excruciating detail. I don't need to know exactly how many tanners a village has, and I need their stats even less. If for whatever reason it becomes important, I just make something up. I also just assume that most towns and villages have basic stuff, like a blacksmith or two, a dry goods store, farms, tailor, carpenter, etc. The only time there'd be an exception is if it's tied to an adventure (i.e. the blacksmith got kidnapped by goblins and is being forced to craft swords for them).
I also don't map out every village or town. Most of the time it's not important to know how far one building is from another. If for whatever reason it becomes important, it's d20 minutes away. Or maybe d100 for larger cities.
I used to love drawing maps and stuff when I was younger, but most of the time the effort I put in was wasted. I'd much rather put that time and energy into the story and adventures, then simply abstract things like village layouts.
Quote from: Naburimannu on July 24, 2022, 04:15:48 AM
You didn't give us enough information to understand how you were getting straight or non-straight roads,
If it is true that there isn't enough information, people shouldn't be asserting what it is since it would require assuming facts not in evidence.
Similarly, f you haven't understood it, you shouldn't be asserting information is lacking in the first place since you lack the understanding to make that call.
If there are sincere questions, why aren't questions being asked? Why is the default position to spew out uninformed opinions and being as negative as possible?
Quotejust a number of roads and their lengths. It's impossible to go through the method you outlined without assuming a bunch of other steps, like, "where does one place the roads"?
I never gave road lengths. I gave the lengths of road segments. You can ultimately derive the road lengths from that. But because I gave the length of segments and not roads, it does tell you exactly where along each road that two roads intersect.
QuoteSo "roads as straight as possible" was simultaneously un-understandable, and a statement that sounds like you're making a strong assumption about what your settlement is like.
Because you haven't even tried to actually do it. The meaning is obvious when you actually do go through the steps. Had you done that, you would have never confused the length of segments for the length of roads. Had you done it, you would understood that it is telling you where the intersections are. Had you done it, you would realize that other than a rare, convenient, lucky set of rolls, it's not possible to keep the roads straight. If you paid attention to the scale, as you would if you were actually attempting to draw the map, you would realize how insane some of the meandering randomness produces relative to the road lengths and then it would be perfectly clear why you would need to shift and play around with the exact positioning of the roads to straighten them out a little.
Quote from: Lunamancer on July 24, 2022, 03:42:29 PM
Because you haven't even tried to actually do it. The meaning is obvious when you actually do go through the steps. Had you done that, you would have never confused the length of segments for the length of roads. Had you done it, you would understood that it is telling you where the intersections are. Had you done it, you would realize that other than a rare, convenient, lucky set of rolls, it's not possible to keep the roads straight. If you paid attention to the scale, as you would if you were actually attempting to draw the map, you would realize how insane some of the meandering randomness produces relative to the road lengths and then it would be perfectly clear why you would need to shift and play around with the exact positioning of the roads to straighten them out a little.
Quote
If I want to do it with a map, I start there.
d4+1 main cross roads running east to west
d4+1 main cross roads running north to south
d8+4 squares (~20 ft) length for each segment of road.
This will first be drawn as a draft, once I have an idea of exactly how all the roads intersect, I adjust the map to make the roads as straight as possible.
For each square adjacent to the road, there's a 50/50 chance it is occupied by a building. Sometimes an additional road will seem likely based on a pattern of absence of buildings. Once all roads and buildings are drawn, I fill in surrounding terrain.
Sorry, no, the meaning is not obvious. It's pretty clear you have a procedure in mind, but I can't read your mind to determine what it is. And yes, I have stared at your words with paper and pen in hand, but NONE OF THE THINGS are as obvious as you assert.
I have a blank piece of (quad-ruled) paper. There are roads that cross something. They cross each other? But how far apart are they spaced?
Quote
I never gave road lengths. I gave the lengths of road segments. You can ultimately derive the road lengths from that. But because I gave the length of segments and not roads, it does tell you exactly where along each road that two roads intersect.
You gave the length of roads measured in 20' segments. But that tells us nothing about where roads intersect. All you can say is "I have a collection of line segments of lengths 5, 5, 7, 8, 10, and 11. Three are oriented east-west, three north-south."
In my exasperation I'm beginning to suspect that you might be assuming that the village is at a four-way crossroads. You never stated that.
But if that's the case, and one starts at the middle and works outwards determining the location of buildings, and assumes that any square that doesn't have a building has a road in it, and has some sort of rule of thumb for the order in which you're considering squares, then that's almost a complete description - although if it's based on squares it doesn't allow for roads meeting at non-right angles, so your point about straight roads still doesn't make any sense. Nope, your instructions leave me completely at a loss. This is an underspecified procedure.
Also, I'm not sure what kind of urban plan you're trying to produce for your settlements, but square straight roads doesn't meet my expectations of verisimilitude, which is part of why I was questioning things and trying to figure out what you meant. A good example of the sort of thing I might go for is https://www.alamy.com/plan-of-shrewsbury-lord-burghleys-atlas-london-1579-source-royal-18-d-iii-ff89v-90-language-english-author-saxton-christopher-image227208125.html, which has plenty of curves and forks. And that's a good-sized town, not a village. "Medieval Rural Settlement: Britain and Ireland, AD 800-1600" seems like a reasonable source for a generic campaign world, and the *only* rectilinear plan I see in there is Flint, in North Wales, which was - much like a Roman legion fort - something built by a central authority as part of an invasion, not something that evolved out of people settling in an area. The authors immediately make the point that Flint was unusual, that most of the other "new towns" created as part of the pacification of Gwynedd weren't on a strict rectilinear plan.
Greetings!
Geesus. Place roads within villages however you want.
In my Thandor campaign, most villages have relatively small roads layed out in a kind of haphazard and crazy way. People make roads going off in whatever direction. In strong, powerful empires and kingdoms, road style and construction may be and usually is, stylized and layed out to spec by standard regulations.
I like being detailed in the creation of villages, though I also appreciate what Effette was commenting on, about being swift, abstract, and even minimalist. I sometimes do that as well, depending on the group, the scenario, and so on.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Naburimannu on July 24, 2022, 04:02:06 PM
Quote
If I want to do it with a map, I start there.
d4+1 main cross roads running east to west
d4+1 main cross roads running north to south
d8+4 squares (~20 ft) length for each segment of road.
This will first be drawn as a draft, once I have an idea of exactly how all the roads intersect, I adjust the map to make the roads as straight as possible.
For each square adjacent to the road, there's a 50/50 chance it is occupied by a building. Sometimes an additional road will seem likely based on a pattern of absence of buildings. Once all roads and buildings are drawn, I fill in surrounding terrain.
And on, oh, a sixth rereading, I think I get it: you mean segment in a fairly strict elementary school geometry sense: the length of a side of a block, so the length of a road is the sum of a sequence of segments. Yes, if you have roll d8+4 for each block side length, without trying to do anything to make them correlated, the roads are going to be very non-straight.
OK, that makes sense. Your base case is still underspecified but I can use this algorithm to sort-of make a map. You're assuming four-way intersections, I guess?
Where I'm coming from: I have in the past been paid to write computer code to generate imaginary urban road networks for my job, so this is a thing I take a little bit seriously. Perhaps too seriously, per SHARK. :)
Quote from: Effete on July 24, 2022, 06:03:57 AM
I prefer a macro-worldbuilding approach.
I decide what the general politics, religion, sensibilities, etc. are over a wide geographic region (like a whole country, kingdom, whatever), and assume that everyone within the region follows those general strictures. Variations and outliers exist as I need them for the story. I rarely plot out cities and villages to such excruciating detail. I don't need to know exactly how many tanners a village has, and I need their stats even less. If for whatever reason it becomes important, I just make something up. I also just assume that most towns and villages have basic stuff, like a blacksmith or two, a dry goods store, farms, tailor, carpenter, etc. The only time there'd be an exception is if it's tied to an adventure (i.e. the blacksmith got kidnapped by goblins and is being forced to craft swords for them).
I also don't map out every village or town. Most of the time it's not important to know how far one building is from another. If for whatever reason it becomes important, it's d20 minutes away. Or maybe d100 for larger cities.
I used to love drawing maps and stuff when I was younger, but most of the time the effort I put in was wasted. I'd much rather put that time and energy into the story and adventures, then simply abstract things like village layouts.
This tends to be more my usual approach. If I need stats for NPCs I usually make them up on the fly, unless I want to do something specific for them, on which case I may have more details before hand. But generally I tend to assume average attributes/ability scores by default (10 in 3e+ D&D), low scores (6-8) in one or two areas if relevant, high scores (14-16) in the attribute tied to the NPC's field of specialty, and above average scores (12-14) in secondary areas related to their specialty. If it's an exceptionally talented NPC I just boost their relevant scores and maybe their Intelligence and/or Charisma a bit more (typically in 2 point increments in D&D). If I wanna make them extra hardy I boost their Constitution instead.
SHARK's approach makes me feel inadequate with that level of detail! LOL
Though, I do admire that degree of attention and think it can sometimes bring something extra to the game, since it provides greater visibility to what's actually available, and you can always fall back on your extensive notes if players get picky or ask too many questions. The downside is when players ignore it and head right into the adventure, the effort becomes somewhat wasted, unless you're going to publish it at least in a blog somewhere.
Quote from: VisionStorm on July 24, 2022, 06:40:36 PM
Though, I do admire that degree of attention and think it can sometimes bring something extra to the game, since it provides greater visibility to what's actually available, and you can always fall back on your extensive notes if players get picky or ask too many questions. The downside is when players ignore it and head right into the adventure, the effort becomes somewhat wasted, unless you're going to publish it at least in a blog somewhere.
Unfortunately, this has been my experience over the years/decades, and it's completely changed my approach to worldbuilding (for the better, IMO). As I mentioned, I used to map out everything, flesh out a handful of NPCs in each village/town, come with silly voices or mannerisms. The whole shebang! But while it might get a laugh here or there, or a small degree of interaction, most of it was filler and the players knew it.
Another issue I ran into was that because I was trying to create a "living world," I tried to make everyone unique. So when I had NPCs that had potential sidequests, they didn't stand out and the players ignored them, assuming they were just more filler. That, more than anything, sparked the shift, I think. Simply put: mundane NPCs are played mundane (using just my normal voice), while important NPCs need to stand out (afflections, accents, etc). It jumps at the players and says, "Hey assholes, there's something to explore here."
I'm not trying to knock being detailed and meticulous. I would love to run a successful game like that. But for whatever reason, it just didn't work for me.
There's a reprint of a Dragon magazine article in one of the Best of the Dragon compilations which has an article about businesses in a fantasy settlement. It told you which sort of business or building types should be available per X number of population in a city, town, or village. Pretty interesting.
As far as I'm concerned, abstract, macro scale is efficient, while specific details selected with care is what brings a place to life. So after some time mapping everything out and some other time winging it, I've found I don't particularly prefer either extreme. Instead, I put together a skeleton at the macro level and then hang some specific but incomplete details on it. When done right, this gives me the best of both worlds.
Where I used to screw up doing this was trying to be complete. If Jan the Stable Owner has a line of description, a line of personality, a line of motivations, etc, then everyone around him does. No! Moreover, Jan probably doesn't need all that. What I finally got through my sometimes thick skull is that the level of detail you need is the level you don't improvise well, or at least to cement the idea of the area in your head. So now I might have this:
- (in the stable section or in a list of local NPCs, it varies) Jan, coal black, long hair, gruff, 3 hands.
- (in the inn section or same list, ditto) Melda, bossy, Patrice barkeep,
Then in the notes about the elderly wheelwright that happens to be the de facto leader in this village, I might go into more detail, because the party is likely to talk to him more.
This approach isn't really all that different from the usual thing you see, which is a map with 20-30 buildings on it, 4-6 of them called out as important, and then a list of NPC stat blocks that the writer expected to have the most interaction. You might also have some general population numbers. The minor difference is that I don't fill in the gaps consistently, but only for enough of a sample to get the place in my head. It's a minor difference in approach that is a major difference in how long it takes me to do it.
It's also far more useful to me at the table when running the game, which is the whole point of the exercise, after all. Someone else's longer write up may be useful for them, but that's a lot of detail to wade through for anyone else. That kind of details all runs together into mush pretty darn quick.
I generally start with who rules the village on a mid-macro level (who is the duke or baron if any) and then who rules the village on a local level (a lord of the manor, a mayor a council of elders?).
Next why is their a village here? What does the village produce?, is there a good water siurce, is it naturally defensible?
Once these half a dozen questions have been answered the layout of the village nornally draws itself organically.
All that's left is to populate it with a couple of interesting NPCs and a local threat or tension.
The whole thing can take 5 minutes with practice.
I do it pretty much the same way you do it, SHARK, but in a slightly different order. I always ask why the village is there first, and let the commerce or story drive my development. I get into the factions a little earlier as well, as it guides what kind of NPCs I want to include, etc.
I will say that I only go to the level of detail you go to SHARK, if I'm sure the characters will be in the village for a while. If they're just passing through it'll be an inn, what's on the food and drink list, and a few interesting NPCs to throw some kind of in-town encounter/mini-adventure. I also try to place one really memorable description component in so that it's memorable. That helps since my guys don't always remember the names of places they've been but they almost always remember, "You know, that town where all the houses had low gates painted blue," or, "We need to go back to that village where they had all the colorful banners celebrating the gods," etc. I usually try to do that with my inns/taverns as well: interesting games, food, structures that will be memorable.
Ill miss your grandiose posts SHARK.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on July 25, 2022, 06:42:03 PM
Ill miss your grandiose posts SHARK.
Pat and Shark are gone, but the woke-defenders and trolls remain. If Pundit isn't careful, these forums will lose a lot of their utility. It like the old adage about AA fire: the plane has to dodge every single one, but the AA guns only have to be lucky once. Over time, everyone who contributes will eventually slip up. Then what will we have?
Nuts, SHARK got banned? I must have missed something. :(
Most of the villages I come up with I do on the fly. I think about why the PCs are there and how long they may stay. I'll come up with a few details that might stick out and some non-cookie cutter NPCs to interact with. I might look at my notes and see if it's a good place to drop in a rumor or an interesting encounter or some other diversion for the group.
If it seems like the PCs might decide to stay for an extended time or are likely to come back, I'll flesh it out a bit more after the session. I very rarely get into the level of detail Shark mentions. Maybe for a city, but not a village unless the adventure hinges on some of those things.
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on July 25, 2022, 11:53:09 PM
Nuts, SHARK got banned? I must have missed something. :(
Over a three month old threadban that's not even code enforced.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 26, 2022, 10:58:12 AM
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on July 25, 2022, 11:53:09 PM
Nuts, SHARK got banned? I must have missed something. :(
Over a three month old threadban that's not even code enforced.
How is a poster supposed to remember which ancient threads they've been banned from posting in? Makes me a little trepidatious to post in
any thread ... at least, not more than once per thread.
Keep a sticky note next to your computer with your banned threads?
On the subject of this thread, I've been reading the collected stories of "John the Balladeer" by Manly Wade Wellman. I kinda like how he depicts people just kinda building homes out in the middle of nowhere, like.. John just wanders around in the wild and mountains and whatnot and almost always seems to find someone living around where he goes, maybe with a day or two max in between some people.
So I like to think that if you were building a campaign, people would choose to try and spread out and live almost anywhere, so you'd have lots of scattered homes and whatnot. Then some bigger gatherings/collections of people around important places for trade or religion or governance. And if you don't find people in an area, then it would probably be because of dangerous monsters, or maybe the people are still around but they're good at hiding from the monsters and so you aren't able to easily find them.
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on July 25, 2022, 04:14:14 PM
I do it pretty much the same way you do it, SHARK, but in a slightly different order. I always ask why the village is there first, and let the commerce or story drive my development. I get into the factions a little earlier as well, as it guides what kind of NPCs I want to include, etc.
I will say that I only go to the level of detail you go to SHARK, if I'm sure the characters will be in the village for a while. If they're just passing through it'll be an inn, what's on the food and drink list, and a few interesting NPCs to throw some kind of in-town encounter/mini-adventure. I also try to place one really memorable description component in so that it's memorable. That helps since my guys don't always remember the names of places they've been but they almost always remember, "You know, that town where all the houses had low gates painted blue," or, "We need to go back to that village where they had all the colorful banners celebrating the gods," etc. I usually try to do that with my inns/taverns as well: interesting games, food, structures that will be memorable.
Greetings!
Outstanding, Brooding Paladin!
Yes, I enjoy being detailed. Sometimes, though, it can be wasted, when the Players go left instead of right, as it were. ;D
I manage to avoid that, usually, as I provide a basic frame for whatever is going on--quick visits, that kind of thing, random. Then if I know they are definitely basing themselves there or are crazy enthused about the new village, then it is easy to fill in all the other detailed stuff I like afterwards, but before the next game session.
Sometimes, honestly, the uber detail can backfire the other way, in the sense that the Players go crazy for the village, a Player falls in love with a milk girl, or a female player gets involved with a local Wizard's Apprentice, or a handsome Paladin, and they want to know all the family details and everything. *Laughing* The Players can get deeply involved with such a village, and it can become a home and base to them for *years*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I missed you SHARK. Never leave me again <3
Yeah! Glad you're back!
Quote from: THE_Leopold on August 01, 2022, 12:51:22 PM
I missed you SHARK. Never leave me again <3
Greetings!
Thank you, Leopold, my old friend! I have missed you as well!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on August 01, 2022, 05:18:56 PM
Yeah! Glad you're back!
Greetings!
Well, thank you, Brooding Paladin! I appreciate your kindness and regard! I am glad to be back. I have returned! ;D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: HappyDaze on July 22, 2022, 07:11:35 PM
I have a hard time picturing unwalled villages in most fantasy settings because they would be too vulnerable to monsters (of various types). For the same reason, I have a hard time envisioning large numbers of true non-combatants. At the very least, any able-bodied individual should have militia training.
Depends on the setting and how monster infested or not an area is.
You'd see alot more unwalled towns in areas closer to capitols and heavy population/patrol zones.
The further you get from those areas the more likely some manner of defense may be needed.
Though at the end of the day walls may be little more than a brief hinderance in any setting where monsters are either numerous or have abiliities or spells that can make short work of walls. Especially any creatures with sapping skills to just go under walls and the like.
Settings like FR actually show why its a but redundant as periodically orcs come down from the north and lay waste to civilization. Including heavily fortified dwarven cities.
I've seen more than a few towns with local predators like bears, wolves and coyotes and wonder why the hell do they not put a wall up? Or even a simple fence.
Quote from: Naburimannu on July 24, 2022, 04:32:00 PM
Where I'm coming from: I have in the past been paid to write computer code to generate imaginary urban road networks for my job, so this is a thing I take a little bit seriously. Perhaps too seriously, per SHARK. :)
*shrugs* Or perhaps not seriously enough? The system is intended for generating villages, per the subject line. It's not intended for urban settings at all. To me, that's a distinction worth taking seriously.
Greetings!
Yes, well, I think that villages are an important part of the campaign world. Villages, after all, are ultimately the foundation upon which civilization is built. All those great urban cities need animals, food, and raw resources--all of which comes chiefly from villages. Agricultural, fishing villages, ranching villages, pastoral villages, mining villages, logging villages, orchard villages--many different types of villages, all providing the enormous level of resources from which anything is built.
Erase villages, and there is no "civilization". Having scattered outposts struggling desperately while circling the drain--while at first glance sounding exciting and dramatic--in my view actually *narrows* the campaign options, and affects the overall flavour of the campaign. There are enormous degrees of things that the Player characters absolutely depend upon--all provided by and through the framework and foundations of civilization. Advanced tools, armour, weapons, coin-based economy, even social rank and knighthood, wizards, temples and priests, the ubiquitous "Tavern"--pretty much anything and everything beyond a stone age level of existence.
Thus, I think having well-detailed and fleshed out villages are a very important component of a campaign. Villages also contribute NPC's, resources, events, drama, and more, to the larger towns and cities of the campaign. Sometimes in subtle and weird ways, but gradually feeds like a vast creek system, flowing into what becomes a mighty river, possessing identity, force, and direction.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I need to take a look at Perceforest for Mythras again. I know there's a village (vill) management and improvement system in the supplement, but I can't recall if it allows for building from the ground up.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 06, 2022, 07:20:37 PM
I need to take a look at Perceforest for Mythras again. I know there's a village (vill) management and improvement system in the supplement, but I can't recall if it allows for building from the ground up.
Greetings!
Interesting, Armchair Gamer! I would love to see some of your notes and observations about such rules!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Well, this makes me aware that I do things...differently.
I tend to make singular locations which serve as many purposes as possible for the game. The real world considerations come as answers to what campaign needs I'm answering. Usually, I'm trying to make an environment where you simultaneously get PC/ NPC roleplay, an informal dungeon-crawling experience, and to convey the tone or aesthetic of the campaign in an impactful way. Then I pitch the campaign to players based on this location.
For an example, I'll pull up the module I've been back-burnering for my homebrew system (which is present day/ near future SF biohorror with a whole lot of inspiration from Parasite Eve).
The location is nominally a rebuilt Chattanooga, Tennessee Aquarium. (We'll get to why the US South specifically in a minute.) But it has things like a three-level food court, several gift shops and independent vendors, and connects to locations like a Cold War-era bomb shelter which has been repurposed into a biolab, and to Downtown Chattanooga. And of course it has things like a parking deck.
The reason it's in the South is because Greater Appalachia has an absurdly high gun ownership rate, so you can give the PCs more than enough guns and ammo by killing off NPCs. There will be a few carrying concealed handguns on their person and a whole lot of cars with deer rifles in them, so by setting the game in this specific area, you can bypass the need for a dedicated weapons vendor for the first third of the campaign, and all the other needs (food, water, NPCs to interact with, medical and veterinary supplies, monsters to kill, a space to explore) are all self-contained within the Aquarium itself.
It's like the SF equivalent to Ravenloft in that everything is self-contained. In some ways, it's notably worse than Ravenloft because of how claustrophobic it can be. Ravenloft is a huge city. This aquarium? The class of 4th graders who barricaded themselves into the VIP dining lounge, the CIA spy trying to find a MacGuffin thumb drive, the mutant supersoldier villain who is now siding with a space alien who claims she can cure his PTSD and his girlfriend's incurable cancer, and the now-amphibious electric eel miniboss encounter are all separated by only a few hundred yards, so one effect spilling over and affecting another is pretty easy. It may only require a boss fight to wind up knocking down some drywall. Players may have to consciously think about moving or driving events from one location within the Aquarium to another.
Is this always a practical approach to village building? No, not especially. But I do recommend starting with the aesthetic you are going for (I'm going for a flooding aquarium filled with NPCs and de-extincted mutant animals), and then try to make the campaign location as tight as possible.
My primary reason for going to the level of detail of villages where I map them out has nothing to do with theory, shoulds or shouldn'ts, what's "good" or "bad" for the overall campaign. Has nothing to do with "preference" or "play style." It's pretty simple. Exploring a new village can itself be an adventure or part of an adventure. Not drawing a map of the village is a lot like not drawing the map of a dungeon. The very best example of this I've seen is in Gary Gygax's "Living the Legend" module, in which exploration of the village is spelled out fairly clearly as a huge chunk of the adventure. And once you've seen how that players out there, if you missed it the first time around, it gives new perspective on how to run Village of Hommlet. And it explains why so much of Keep on the Borderlands is detailing the keep itself.
My secondary reason is because the division of labor of a village is not nearly what it is in a city or even a town. That means a lot of the items PCs will be most interested in buying will not be readily available. This gives PCs a motive to want to travel to larger cities. At the same time, realistically, there's always going to be a market in second-hand goods. So when adventurers return with salvaged armor and weapons that they wish to liquidate, that puts items that would generally not be available in a village economy available on the market for other adventuring parties to purchase. It's almost as if as the party levels up, the community can also "level up" in a sense with them.
And my tertiary reason is because I kind of enjoy tracking the various economies and markets of the game world. It provides valuable background material. And it puts me in a position to easily determine what the wider consequences to the region are from PC actions. This in turn helps perpetuate the campaign and launch new adventures with minimal effort. If the PCs route a gang of highwaymen, it might mean an increase in the number of wandering merchants to the area. Or it could mean a new gang moves in to fill the vacuum. Or perhaps two rival gangs try to stake a claim and a turf war breaks out. In the case where traveling merchants become more common, this can mean rarer and more exotic items become available to the PCs for purchase at random. But it might also mean increased competition for the PCs favorite weapon smith, which might create new problems for PCs to deal with.
Not directly relevant, I know, but I've had a lot of utility from Watabou's stuff over at Itch:
https://watabou.itch.io/village-generator
https://watabou.itch.io/medieval-fantasy-city-generator