Does anyone here have any opinions on the relative merits of Chaosium's BRP-based Elric! (the version from 1993, identical to Stormbringer 5e, I believe) and Mongoose's more recent MRQ-based Elric RPG?

I own BRP Elric!, and am reading it for the first time in years.  I like it!  However, I have no idea how it compares to the Mongoose version.

Also, is there any point in picking up the first edition of Stormbringer?  Some people seem to praise it over later editions (T Foster and Philotomy Jurant, iirc), but I keep forgetting why.  (Given how expensive copies of 1e are, though, it would have to be significantly superior to Elric! for me to try to obtain a copy.)

Thanks!  

As far as I remember, Mongoose's Elric is referenced as the paradigm example of what was wrong with early d20 3pp stuff. It's basically a reprint of the BRP, with some d20 stats tacked on top which clearly indicate that their authors had not even looked at the D&D 3.0 ruleset.

I guess that's good news for you.

Quote from: Windjammer;344511As far as I remember, Mongoose's Elric is referenced as the paradigm example of what was wrong with early d20 3pp stuff. It's basically a reprint of the BRP, with some d20 stats tacked on top which clearly indicate that their authors had not even looked at the D&D 3.0 ruleset.

I guess that's good news for you.

There was a d20 version of Elric ('Dragon Lords of Melnibone'?), but the current Mongoose version isn't that.  It's based on their version of RuneQuest, and has nothing to do with d20/3e.

Quote from: Akrasia;344507Does anyone here have any opinions on the relative merits of Chaosium's BRP-based Elric! (the version from 1993, identical to Stormbringer 5e, I believe) and Mongoose's more recent MRQ-based Elric RPG?

Yes, Elric and Stormbringer 5th are almost the same, the differences are minimal.

QuoteI own BRP Elric!, and am reading it for the first time in years.  I like it!  However, I have no idea how it compares to the Mongoose version.

Sorry, I can't help you, I don't have the Mongoose version. I've heard good thing about it, though.

QuoteAlso, is there any point in picking up the first edition of Stormbringer?  Some people seem to praise it over later editions (T Foster and Philotomy Jurant, iirc), but I keep forgetting why.  (Given how expensive copies of 1e are, though, it would have to be significantly superior to Elric! for me to try to obtain a copy.)

Thanks!  

I don't think one is strictly better than the other, they're different animals. Stormbringer 1st was very savage and heavily unbalanced, whereas Stormbringer 5th/Elric is balanced and solid as a rock.

If you have one of the latest Chaosium-editions, I'd say you're pretty good to go.
Mongoose's work is pretty good, I hear. Specially the fluff.

However...with MRQ2 coming up(with some heavy hitters behind the re-writing wheel), it might be a good idea to decide whether you want to snag some of their books now - or wait.
I don't know what their plans are for Elric. They might let it be as is, or they might release a new edition of that as well.

I haven't looked at the Mongoose version; as for the BRP versions I also haven't read them closely enough to really offer a comparison. But just to complicate things, from what I've read, BRP Stormbringer 4e is pretty different from both 1e-3e and Elric!/SB 5e.

I've never seen MRQ Elric so I can't speak to it, but regarding the difference between BRP Elric and earlier editions of Stormbringer, the main differences were that in Stormbringer char-gen was extremely random and unbalanced (both homeland and profession were rolled on tables, with possibilities ranging from extremely powerful Melnibonean nobles and Pan Tangian sorcerers down to Nadsokorian beggars with multiple (also randomly-rolled) afflictions including missing limbs, etc.) -- imagine, say, a D&D game where each player rolls 2d6-2 to determine the starting level of their character: most will be in the level 4-6 range but some will be 10th level and others will be 0-level mooks -- and the magic system which was based entirely on summoning, binding, and commanding various types of demons. Elric did away with both of those in favor of more balanced char-gen and spell-based magic, and while the resulting game is much more balanced and traditional, it IMO loses way too much of the flavor that made the original so distinctive, and such a fun change of pace from other games. SB was very dark and violent had an invariably high PC bodycount (at least the way we played it) -- Elric just felt like pretty much every other fantasy RPG.

I actually have the 1st edition Stormbringer, BRP Elric, 5th Edition Stormbringer and the MRQ version of Elric and MRQ Hawkmoon as well.  Yeah, I spend way too much money.  

IMHO you are probably best off sticking with what you have.  The Mongoose stuff is well written but I can't honestly say that the MRQ Elric adds anything new or innovative to the game and I ended up just reading it and putting it aside.  The only real value is if you want to use some of the upcoming Mongoose material for Elric or Hawkmoon and don't own MRQ  or don't feel like converting it to your BRP version.

First off, I agree with T. Foster, the earlier verisons were deadlier and we liked that too.  As far as the first edition of Stormbringer specifically, there were just some rules in there I liked for Agents of Law, Chaos, Balance, and the Elements which give the agent some abilities that were omitted in later versions.  They don't really affect the playability of the game, I just liked the agents of the various powers being more bad-ass and in first edition, for instance, Agents of Law drink a potion that makes them tougher (double CON IIRC), longer lived, and sterile and get virtue weapons.  Agents of Chaos have an easier time binding demons and their amulet can warn them of some forms of danger, etc.  Despite the omission of stuff like that in later editions, I think Elric and the 5th Edition Stormbringer improved on the mechanics overall.

I hope this helps.  If you want any more specifics I can dig through my closet for the first edition.

Quote from: T. Foster;344531and the magic system which was based entirely on summoning, binding, and commanding various types of demons. Elric did away with both of those in favor of more balanced char-gen and spell-based magic,

Elric does have a demon summoning system. The difference is that in earlier editions of Stormbringer, the only magic available was demon summoning, whereas in Elric you have demon summoning and other (very bland) spells.

The Unknown East and Corum* supplements include new magic systems, both of them I'd recommend.

*= If I recall correctly, I read in rpg.net that you (Akrasia) had ordered Corum. A great supplement!

Quote from: Claudius;344601The Unknown East and Corum* supplements include new magic systems, both of them I'd recommend.

Are you referring to the Corum supplement from Darcsyde Press that was produced for the Chaosium edition?  I'd heard that it was the bee's knees, but never bought a copy.

!i!

Corum is a seriously good add-on for Stormbringer.
Not only for a very neat take on magic(both law and chaos), but also for being a generally good setting.

If you can get it without bankrupting yourself, it comes highly recommended.

Quote from: Claudius;344601Elric does have a demon summoning system. The difference is that in earlier editions of Stormbringer, the only magic available was demon summoning, whereas in Elric you have demon summoning and other (very bland) spells.

The Unknown East and Corum* supplements include new magic systems, both of them I'd recommend.

*= If I recall correctly, I read in rpg.net that you (Akrasia) had ordered Corum. A great supplement!

I bought so many Stormbringer editions I can't remember all the rules but although they kept summoning in Elric, didn't they do away with demon and elemental bindings in the later edition in favor of more magic spells?  IIRC you could still summon demons and elementals and command services from them but you couldn't bind them into weapons, armor, etc. which was a huge deal in the first edition.  They don't have binding rules in Mongoose's version either because I think I remember reading in his character description that Jagreen Lern had all these demons bound into his armor and weapons and the rules didn't even allow for that.

Demon armor and weapons really made the earlier versions deadly.

P.S. Concur totally about Corum and Unknown East.  Good purchases.

Elric/SB5 still had demon-summoning, and binding them into items. The resulting weapons are still perversely powerful. It only added some relatively low-key spell magic to supplement the summoning rules.
One difference was that demon breeds of older editions disappeared, with summonings becoming either generic demon types or unique builds. The act of summoning went from being a skill, to using the good ol' resistance table.

I have SB5 on my shelf. It is a very good game. I've played SB3 and 4, it was a lot of fun, but the last edition is the better game.
Also, all the sourcebooks, both from Chaosium and from Mongoose, are usable with a minimum of fuzz with SB5.
SB5, on it's own, is a more than decent base for a homegrown BRP-fantasy game.

Does anyone here know if the Bronze Grimoire is any good?  (The version published for Elric!, in case there are multiple versions.)

Quote from: Grimjack;344619...P.S. Concur totally about Corum and Unknown East.  Good purchases.

I ordered Corum but don't have the Unknown East coming.  Perhaps I should pick it up in the future?

Quote from: Ian Absentia;344604Are you referring to the Corum supplement from Darcsyde Press that was produced for the Chaosium edition?  I'd heard that it was the bee's knees, but never bought a copy.

!i!

Yes, the one by Darcsyde. A pity they didn't publish the Hawkmoon supplement.

When I finished reading the Corum supplement, the first thing I thought was "I wish these guys (Darcsyde) had been the authors of the Stormbringer corebook". So much I liked it.