TheRPGSite

Check it out:

http://www.chaosium.com/article.php?story_id=246

BRP is finally due out this year, only 20 years or so after I first started hoping for it.

[internal dialogue]
Hmm.  Will I buy it?  I feel like I should, but I already own so many other BRP games.
Do I need it?  Do I want it?
If I buy it, will I buy it new, or wait to buy a copy on the secondary market?
I feel so...conflicted.
[/internal dialogue]

!i!

I'm definitely getting this!  :)

It'll be great to finally have a set of BRP rules not tied to any particular setting.  I'd like to run a gritty 'sword and sorcery' style campaign using BRP without having to rework Elric/Stormbringer.

It's about twenty years too late for me.

I'm happy for anyone thrilled by a new RPG to play, but the BRP Basic book they put out a few years back looked slapdash to me.

Quote from: jrients...the BRP Basic book they put out a few years back looked slapdash to me.

Lamentably, virtually everything they put out a few years back looked slapdash.  I truly hope that this marks a new turning point for the fortunes of Chaosium.

!i!

Yeah, generic game books tend to suffer from bad art...

Anyone care to tell me what kind of magic system they'll provide (work blocks the Chaosium page)?

It'll include the magic system from Magic World, the one from Elric/Stormbringer, and 1-2 other ones (psychic powers, etc.).

Hmpph. Goodbye dear Euro bill, I'll miss thee...

Quote from: jrientsI'm happy for anyone thrilled by a new RPG to play, but the BRP Basic book they put out a few years back looked slapdash to me.

Well, that's because that one suffered from being shite.  As Ian rightly notes, everything they put out at that point suffered that flaw, something in the editing process no doubt.

Recent books though have been pretty good, the Secrets range is sold, well produced and gameable stuff.  Plus I've seen some playtest bits of this, so my hopes are high.

at least it's coming in the fall.  my gaming funds for summer are already battling it out amongst themselves.  

i was planning on doing a "cthulhu rising" adventure to campaign this summer.  i guess it wouldn't be too hard to convert if need be.  i mean, they're all related in some way.

i am VERY excited about this!  :crazy: :combust:

Here's an overview by the author (or one of the authors):

Quote from: Jason Durall;7267857I'm at work and don't have it handy, but here's a brief overview:

Chapter One: Intro - what is gaming?, little bit of history, game concepts, frequently used terms, blah blah blah

Chapter Two: Character Creation - Some different models, guidelines for different levels of play (realistic, heroic, epic, superhuman) and how to create characters for those. Lots of optional rules such as ability modifiers, hit points per location, Education as a stat, heroic hit points, etc.

Chapter Three: Skills - A complete skills list, with some guidelines about creating new skills where needed. Each skill is broken down into descriptions, setting variations, notes (such as cross-skill bonuses), and results for different levels of success. Optional rules here and there.

Chapter Four: Powers - Five powers systems, which are more-or-less compatible. These include magic (from WoW's Magic World), mutations (from Hawkmoon), psychic powers (about half-new, half Elfquest), sorcery (a non-Moorcock version of the system in Stormbringer), and super powers (somewhere between Super-World from WoW and the boxed game in complexity). Many optional rules.

Chapter Five: System - The star of the show - the d% system with some optional rules.

Chapter Six: Combat - The d% combat system with some optional rules.

Chapter Seven: Spot Rules - Many, many spot rules.

Chapter Eight: Equipment - An overview of equipment, from primitive weapons to science-fiction gear. Guidelines for building equipment with any of the powers from Chapter Four. Optional rules. General rules for wealth. Vehicles. Some other stuff.

Chapter Nine: GMing - Advice on GMing. Creating campaigns. One-shots. The usual stuff. Some new stuff.

Chapter Ten: Settings - Advice for creating and adapting settings. Creating NPCs. The usual stuff. Some new stuff.

Chapter Eleven: Creatures - Bestiary with examples from a variety of settings, and some staples of most settings. Demons. Mundane animals. Robots. Supernatural creatures. Monsters. Fantasy races. Etc.  

Chapter Twelve: Appendices - A big overview of the BRP publishing history. Bibliography of sources used, etc. Character sheets.

From here: http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=7267857&postcount=55

My opinions on this subject can be found on my blog (http://www.xanga.com/RPGPundit), today's (may 8th) entry.

RPGPundit

Some of it certainly is reprinted material, but the playtest files I saw looked damn good so I have high hopes for it.

Otherwise, I think you're a bit out of date on Chaosium, the last year or two we've seen good product again, three or four years ago I'd have been right with you.

Same thing I said on Pundit's blog:

I say "Meh". I was never big on Chaosium games, and the system never struck me as anything horribly special other than, in 1984, it wasn't AD&D. It's just not really to my taste. I do find the fact that it took 30 years to see the light of day amusing.

I was a playtester on this, and still have the final draft files on my PC.  I'm putting my neck out and saying that BRP will be one of, if not the best generic "Toolkit" games ever done.

Assuming, of course, that you like the BRP system.  (Which I do.)

What has been done is they've presented a simple core system to the rules (much along the lines of SB5) and then included tons of optional BRP holdovers as sidebars, appendices, etc.  So, for example, in the Combat chapter it uses a simple 'DEX-Rank' initiative system.  But, if you like the old RQIII "Strike Ranks" a full exposition of those rules are in a boxed callout nearby.

Take the Powers chapter.  You've got your choice of the following "classic" BRP powers built right in: Magic (from Worlds of Wonder), "Powers" (from WoW SuperWorld!), Psychic Abilities (from ElfQuest, I beleive), Sorcery (from Stormbringer 5), and the Mutations from Hawkmoon.  Guidelines are given for mixing and matching, or using one independently of all the others.  Good stuff.

I honestly cannot think of a single genre, or style of play which I could not run nearly right out of the box with BRP.

Frankly, my only complaint about it at this point, is that I wish it were going to be a boxed set, instead of a book.

Quote from: BalbinusSome of it certainly is reprinted material, but the playtest files I saw looked damn good so I have high hopes for it.

And most of the material in it which is reprinted is from games which are so out of print as to be mostly forgotten by the RPG hobby (Worlds of Wonder, ElfQuest).  And, that material has also been reworked, and brought up to speed with the revised core systems.

Quote from: zombenI was a playtester on this, and still have the final draft files on my PC.  I'm putting my neck out and saying that BRP will be one of, if not the best generic "Toolkit" games ever done.

Assuming, of course, that you like the BRP system.  (Which I do.)

What has been done is they've presented a simple core system to the rules (much along the lines of SB5) and then included tons of optional BRP holdovers as sidebars, appendices, etc.  So, for example, in the Combat chapter it uses a simple 'DEX-Rank' initiative system.  But, if you like the old RQIII "Strike Ranks" a full exposition of those rules are in a boxed callout nearby.

Take the Powers chapter.  You've got your choice of the following "classic" BRP powers built right in: Magic (from Worlds of Wonder), "Powers" (from WoW SuperWorld!), Psychic Abilities (from ElfQuest, I beleive), Sorcery (from Stormbringer 5), and the Mutations from Hawkmoon.  Guidelines are given for mixing and matching, or using one independently of all the others.  Good stuff.

I honestly cannot think of a single genre, or style of play which I could not run nearly right out of the box with BRP.

Frankly, my only complaint about it at this point, is that I wish it were going to be a boxed set, instead of a book.

I'm sold!

Quote from: ClaudiusI'm sold!

ditto...always liked BRP, so no reason to turn my nose up at it now.
it would be late to me if i had been waiting on it, but i haven't, so it's all good.

I've been waiting a long time for something like this to happen. Now I like other systems, but BRP will always have a place in my heart. If they publish it, I'll buy it. For sure.

My only gripe is: Why didn't Chaosium do this before? :confused:

Quote from: ClaudiusMy only gripe is: Why didn't Chaosium do this before? :confused:

As mentioned earlier in the thread, they did.  Sort of.  Rather poorly.  Financial and organisational problems were getting in the way.  From what I'm gathering, it looks like matters are sorting themselves out.

You know, I'll buy a copy.  It can go on the shelf right next to my son's D&D 3.x books that I bought him.  He'll be able to take my copy of RQ Vikings and go batshit. :haw:  Maybe I'll even run that "Trouble Comes to Vinland" (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2642) campaign for him...

!i!

I think I'll buy it but I said that about MRQ before the reviews started rolling in. Plus (probably more important) when it comes to new games as opposed to satisfying my craving for "scarce" OOP stuff, I'm a cheapo.

Quote from: ClaudiusMy only gripe is: Why didn't Chaosium do this before? :confused:

Because they've been in a 'bad place' financially for the past ten years or so.  The CCG craze hurt them hard, and they're only now recovering.  They've been putting out lots of good Cthulhu stuff (their top-selling line, natch) and ditched lines which were dragging them down (Stormbringer) which has helped their cash flow to the point where they can start expanding out into other areas.

I'm sure Chaosium has been wanting to do BRP for a long time now (in fact, I beleive I recall Charlie mentioning it to me at least 5 or 6 years ago) but it's only in the past couple of years that they've had the resources to do it.

I hope it works and it's all that they want it to be.  But I have my doubts - not because it's from Chaosism, but because generally generic systems suck.  They have a lot of information that you have to go through before hand strip out what you don't want flush out all the missing details for whatever setting you are actually trying to do and then spec out all the rules/details to your players.

Generic systems are all well and good if you want to put the effort into it.  But for the most part you are still better off to take something close to what you want and make the few changes to get there.

So are they going to go with a core book + supplements model like Savage Worlds and nWoD, or are they waiting and seeing?

Quote from: kryystI hope it works and it's all that they want it to be.  But I have my doubts - not because it's from Chaosism, but because generally generic systems suck.  They have a lot of information that you have to go through before hand strip out what you don't want flush out all the missing details for whatever setting you are actually trying to do and then spec out all the rules/details to your players.

Like I said earlier, BRP will have a solid "Core" set of rules and then tons of optional versions of different things.  For example, the 'core' rules use the tried-and-true dice rolling for character generation, but there's a sidebar on allocating points.  The 'core' rules don't have skill category modifiers, but there are two optional systems for doing that if you like them.

Also, last time I spoke with Jason about it, the book was going to include a 'checklist' which a GM could copy, mark all of the optional rules in his campaign, and then just hand that to the players.  All the players will need to start making their characters at that point, is a copy of the rules, and a copy of that 'options handout'.  Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Quote from: MoriartySo are they going to go with a core book + supplements model like Savage Worlds and nWoD, or are they waiting and seeing?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's a bit of both.  I've heard rumors from various sources that things like a "Generic SciFi Setting Book" have been comissioned, or at least discussed, but I really don't know for sure.

I'm hoping they do things like the scripted campaigns for Savage Worlds.  I've got an idea for a dark, gritty 'powered humans' game I'd love to do, based on BRP and the Powers chapter therein.  Sort of like the "Heroes" TV show in many ways, but I came up with the concept years ago.  My thought would be that if I wrote that up to publish for BRP, it would be a single, 64-pp setting and campaign outline, with no other support planned.  Basically give the GMs and Players a fairly well-developed 'framework' to drop their own scenarios into.

Quote from: zombenLike I said earlier, BRP will have a solid "Core" set of rules and then tons of optional versions of different things.  For example, the 'core' rules use the tried-and-true dice rolling for character generation, but there's a sidebar on allocating points.  The 'core' rules don't have skill category modifiers, but there are two optional systems for doing that if you like them.

Also, last time I spoke with Jason about it, the book was going to include a 'checklist' which a GM could copy, mark all of the optional rules in his campaign, and then just hand that to the players.  All the players will need to start making their characters at that point, is a copy of the rules, and a copy of that 'options handout'.  Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Well except generally equipment lists, monsters and possibly spell lists.  Like I said I hope it's a good book - but typically Generic systems fail to impress because they are generic.

Quote from: kryystWell except generally equipment lists, monsters and possibly spell lists.  Like I said I hope it's a good book - but typically Generic systems fail to impress because they are generic.

THe equipment list was pretty massive and useful for anything from prehistoric to far future, if I recall.

As to spell lists, the game comes with 5 different 'powers' systems:
Magic (spells)
Sorcery (summonings)
Superpowers
Psychic powers
Mutations

To be completely honest, however, I have not seen the monsters chapter yet.  That was all being handled off of the playtest list (aside from a few basic critters we had for test fights).  My guess is it will be a good cross-section of critters from 30 years of Chaosium games.

Quote from: zombenTHe equipment list was pretty massive and useful for anything from prehistoric to far future, if I recall.

As to spell lists, the game comes with 5 different 'powers' systems:
Magic (spells)
Sorcery (summonings)
Superpowers
Psychic powers
Mutations

To be completely honest, however, I have not seen the monsters chapter yet.  That was all being handled off of the playtest list (aside from a few basic critters we had for test fights).  My guess is it will be a good cross-section of critters from 30 years of Chaosium games.

I may just have to retract my generic statement on generic systems if they actually provide enough to play the game out of the box without a massive amount of prep work to quantify the setting you are trying to pigeon hole it into.

Quote from: zomben....it will be a good cross-section of critters from 30 years of Chaosium games.

Chaos ducks? We gotta have ducks!

I too am looking forward for this book but will it's sales be affected by the free GORE game? The GORE book is pretty complete and very useable.

Quote from: BalbinusCheck it out:

http://www.chaosium.com/article.php?story_id=246

BRP is finally due out this year, only 20 years or so after I first started hoping for it.

I will check it out when it hits my local game store and if it's good I may pick it up.

I am looking for a good generic rpg system and haven't found one that fits my needs.

Looked at Savage World and I wasn't too keen on the system and the core book seemed alittle light.

Quote from: zombenI was a playtester on this, and still have the final draft files on my PC.  I'm putting my neck out and saying that BRP will be one of, if not the best generic "Toolkit" games ever done.

Assuming, of course, that you like the BRP system.  (Which I do.)

What has been done is they've presented a simple core system to the rules (much along the lines of SB5) and then included tons of optional BRP holdovers as sidebars, appendices, etc.  So, for example, in the Combat chapter it uses a simple 'DEX-Rank' initiative system.  But, if you like the old RQIII "Strike Ranks" a full exposition of those rules are in a boxed callout nearby.

Take the Powers chapter.  You've got your choice of the following "classic" BRP powers built right in: Magic (from Worlds of Wonder), "Powers" (from WoW SuperWorld!), Psychic Abilities (from ElfQuest, I beleive), Sorcery (from Stormbringer 5), and the Mutations from Hawkmoon.  Guidelines are given for mixing and matching, or using one independently of all the others.  Good stuff.

I honestly cannot think of a single genre, or style of play which I could not run nearly right out of the box with BRP.

Frankly, my only complaint about it at this point, is that I wish it were going to be a boxed set, instead of a book.

Ok my question is this:  Is it set for mostly fantasy or can it do present day and sci fi games?

Quote from: Blue DevilOk my question is this:  Is it set for mostly fantasy or can it do present day and sci fi games?

It is setting completely unspecific.  It's got equipment, profession packages and skill lists reflecting anything from Ancient to Modern and SF.

Let's put it this way: when I got the playtest files, I started working on four different settings using only material out of the book:

A Gloranthan Pavis/Big Rubble game (natch!)
A 'horror in the Old West' setting
A modern 'street-level superhero'/'looming biblical apocalypse' game ("Project: Wormwood"... you heard about it here first...)
A near future post-apocalypse zombie survival horror game

I know Jason Durall (the author of the BRP core book) has also used it to run an all-Jedi Star Wars game.

Quote from: Blue DevilI am looking for a good generic rpg system and haven't found one that fits my needs.

Well, I tell you what...  tell me what your 'needs' are, and I'll let you know if/how BRP addresses them.  More specifically, what is it exactly you want out of a generic RPG system?

Quote from: zombenLet's put it this way: when I got the playtest files, I started working on four different settings using only material out of the book:

A Gloranthan Pavis/Big Rubble game (natch!)
A 'horror in the Old West' setting
A modern 'street-level superhero'/'looming biblical apocalypse' game ("Project: Wormwood"... you heard about it here first...)
A near future post-apocalypse zombie survival horror game

I know Jason Durall (the author of the BRP core book) has also used it to run an all-Jedi Star Wars game.

i was sold on this before, but now i'm SOLD sold!
a lot of my group's adventures tend to world-jump a lot, and a good generic set of rules would help that.  i've used CT/MT in the past, but have been jonesin' to do it BRP-style.

Quote from: zombenIt is setting completely unspecific.  It's got equipment, profession packages and skill lists reflecting anything from Ancient to Modern and SF.

Let's put it this way: when I got the playtest files, I started working on four different settings using only material out of the book:

A Gloranthan Pavis/Big Rubble game (natch!)
A 'horror in the Old West' setting
A modern 'street-level superhero'/'looming biblical apocalypse' game ("Project: Wormwood"... you heard about it here first...)
A near future post-apocalypse zombie survival horror game

I know Jason Durall (the author of the BRP core book) has also used it to run an all-Jedi Star Wars game.

Thanks for the information.

I will check it out when it is released and decide whether it does what I need or not.

If it does then great, I will probably pick it up, if not then I won't

Quote from: enelsonChaos ducks? We gotta have ducks!

I too am looking forward for this book but will it's sales be affected by the free GORE game? The GORE book is pretty complete and very useable.

I doubt it.  My guess is that if anything BRP may sell a few more copies from people who got GORE, and want the 'full' version of the rules.

Quote from: Blue DevilThanks for the information.

I will check it out when it is released and decide whether it does what I need or not.

If it does then great, I will probably pick it up, if not then I won't

I certainly hope you enjoy the game.  I've been a fan for years, and it is still pretty much my 'go-to' system for most things.  If I run fantasy, or horror, for sure I use either RuneQuest III, or Call of Cthulhu as the system.  Even if I don't use their 'default' settings, I can make them work for whatever I want.  (For example, if I ever wanted to run an AFMBE-like zombie game again, I'd totally use BRP/Call of Cthulhu).

Did a version of BRP ever contain some kind of combat maneuver, akin to GURPS Martial Arts or D20 feats, or even Torg trick/taunt/test? I tend to miss those with straight attack/defense games, especially if they're not too gritty.

Quote from: SosthenesDid a version of BRP ever contain some kind of combat maneuver, akin to GURPS Martial Arts or D20 feats, or even Torg trick/taunt/test? I tend to miss those with straight attack/defense games, especially if they're not too gritty.

Not that I recall.  RuneQuest III did have such things as "Opportunity Attacks (D&D's "Attack of Opportunity" is based on this), Knockback, Shield Bashing, etc. But nothing really of the sort of stuff you're talking about.

My experience with combat-heavy BRP (IE: RuneQuest III) was that the players did focus a lot on combat tactics, and the sort of tactics that work in the real world, not D20-like crap.  Boxing your opponent into a corner, or getting him in front of a ledge, and then knocking him off with a well-timed shield bash was a favorite.

One of my PCs perfected a technique simply called "The Tactic".  In this technique, whenever he was fighting a large monster (like a dinosaur, dragon, giant, whatever) he would use a combination of Climb, Jump, Agility Rolls, etc. to climb up the back of the monster, and stab it repeatedly in the head.  Right there, that's the sort of thing you'd never be able to replicate with D20, because there's no Feat for it.  But the RQIII rules were so fluid, and so open to GM Fiat, that it was easy to do.

YMMV.

Yes, RQ/BRP is more "design for cause" rather than "design for effect", meaning that the the rules are meant to allow you to construct your own tactics--though ultimately I don't think they're as flashy as what you find in games that have specific talents or feats for different tactics. One other feature to bear in mind is the riposte rule from Stormbringer/Elric, which lets characters get in a free attack after a good parry roll--so that what might be a separate ability under other rules simply grows naturally out of skill improvement.

Quote from: zombenOne of my PCs perfected a technique simply called "The Tactic".  In this technique, whenever he was fighting a large monster (like a dinosaur, dragon, giant, whatever) he would use a combination of Climb, Jump, Agility Rolls, etc. to climb up the back of the monster, and stab it repeatedly in the head.  Right there, that's the sort of thing you'd never be able to replicate with D20, because there's no Feat for it.

I  believe there are in the Complete Guide to the Master Climber-Jumper-Stabber supplement.  You may have missed that particular publication.

By the way, my son and daughter got their hands on my 2nd edition ElfQuest book tonight and are clamoring to play some BRP.

!i!

Quote from: zombenMy experience with combat-heavy BRP (IE: RuneQuest III) was that the players did focus a lot on combat tactics, and the sort of tactics that work in the real world, not D20-like crap.  Boxing your opponent into a corner, or getting him in front of a ledge, and then knocking him off with a well-timed shield bash was a favorite.

Hey, let's keep the system-bashing for another time. It's not like that isn't done in D20 games either... In fact, it's all in the standard D&D rules.

The real world is full of specific combat tactics, and I kinda like it when different combat styles offer more variation than just weapon damage. This would actually be rather easy to model in a skill-based game, probably better than with straight binary abilities. From a separate "technique" skill (e.g. "spanish fencing", "eagle claw kung fu"), to simple pre-defined maneuvers. For cinematic games, some kind of "botta segrete" exclusive to one "school" can be quite interesting.

Quote from: zombenRight there, that's the sort of thing you'd never be able to replicate with D20, because there's no Feat for it.  But the RQIII rules were so fluid, and so open to GM Fiat, that it was easy to do.

Oh, have I entered a C&C thread now? We all have our favorite systems, but that "rules-heavy game hinder creativity" is getting pretty old.

Quote from: SosthenesDid a version of BRP ever contain some kind of combat maneuver, akin to GURPS Martial Arts or D20 feats, or even Torg trick/taunt/test? I tend to miss those with straight attack/defense games, especially if they're not too gritty.

Well, Aquelarre did have a sourcebook, "Villa y Corte", that included fencing maneuvers.

I know Aquelarre is not officially BRP, but it's clearly a derivation from it.

Quote from: ClaudiusWell, Aquelarre did have a sourcebook, "Villa y Corte", that included fencing maneuvers.

I know Aquelarre is not officially BRP, but it's clearly a derivation from it.

Could I bother you to tell us a bit more? How did they implement this?

If they were smart, Chaosium would be offering a fee-based license for publishers to support BRP.

However, I doubt this will happen.

Despite conventional wisdom, most of the troubles experienced by Chaosium over the past 10 years have NOT been because of the hit they took during the CCG boom-and-bust.    The problems have been in management and vision.

Quote from: GMSkarkaIf they were smart, Chaosium would be offering a fee-based license for publishers to support BRP.

However, I doubt this will happen.

Despite conventional wisdom, most of the troubles experienced by Chaosium over the past 10 years have NOT been because of the hit they took during the CCG boom-and-bust.    The problems have been in management and vision.

If Chaosium were smart, the history of the rpg industry would I suspect be very different.

But they ain't.

Agree entirely with your post.

Quote from: GMSkarkaIf they were smart, Chaosium would be offering a fee-based license for publishers to support BRP.

And potentially compete with a certain other game that stole their thunder (and mechanics)?  Nah.

QuoteDespite conventional wisdom, most of the troubles experienced by Chaosium over the past 10 years have NOT been because of the hit they took during the CCG boom-and-bust.    The problems have been in management and vision.

Like I said up-thread, financial and organisational problems.  But like I also said up-thread, I hope that this marks a significant turning point in their fortunes, to which I should perhaps add a turning point in their business sense as well.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI hope that this marks a significant turning point in their fortunes, to which I should perhaps add a turning point in their business sense as well.

I would hope for that as well, but having seen how things operate (as a result of some time I spent as a consultant for Green Knight, which shared an office with Chaosium; as well as a period where I was an assigned freelancer for a project that never got off the ground; and finally when I tried unsuccessfully to negotiate a support license for CoC d20, which they had announced they were abandoning).....

...well, let's just say that I'm not convinced.

Quote from: SosthenesHey, let's keep the system-bashing for another time. It's not like that isn't done in D20 games either... In fact, it's all in the standard D&D rules.

Fair enough.

Quote from: SosthenesOh, have I entered a C&C thread now? We all have our favorite systems, but that "rules-heavy game hinder creativity" is getting pretty old.

Ha!  Okay, I'm just coming from the perspective of someone who's run/played a lot of BRP, and a fair amount of D20.  What I found is that in the D20 games I ran, and played in, the players more often than not locked themselves in to what was specifically written on their sheets.  But maybe that's just my experience.

Quote from: GMSkarkaIf they were smart, Chaosium would be offering a fee-based license for publishers to support BRP.

However, I doubt this will happen.

We shall see.

Quote from: GMSkarkaDespite conventional wisdom, most of the troubles experienced by Chaosium over the past 10 years have NOT been because of the hit they took during the CCG boom-and-bust.    The problems have been in management and vision.

The "CCG boom-and-bust" did, however, cause the initial troubles which Chaosium have been slowly digging their way out of.

Quote from: GMSkarka...but having seen how things operate (as a result of some time I spent as a consultant for Green Knight, which shared an office with Chaosium; as well as a period where I was an assigned freelancer for a project that never got off the ground; and finally when I tried unsuccessfully to negotiate a support license for CoC d20, which they had announced they were abandoning).....

I hear you.  I was somewhat intimately familiar with the situation between 1995 and 2000 myself and earned my own share of dismay and bitterness.  However, they were a better company before the crunch, and given the cyclical nature of things they can become a better company now.  This new BRP is a step in the right direction.  If it's marketed well and is received well...who knows?

!i!

I think if Chaosium can be truthfully said to have one major problem, it's their lack of communication.  I think if most people knew the 'truth' of what's been going on there over the past ten years, they'd have more respect for what Chaosium has gone through, and what they've been trying to accomplish.

The truth of the matter is that Chaosium just don't go out and make a big deal about what they're doing, and what they've accomplished in digging themselves out of the hole they were in.

Quote from: zombenI think if Chaosium can be truthfully said to have one major problem, it's their lack of communication.  I think if most people knew the 'truth' of what's been going on there over the past ten years, they'd have more respect for what Chaosium has gone through, and what they've been trying to accomplish.

The truth of the matter is that Chaosium just don't go out and make a big deal about what they're doing, and what they've accomplished in digging themselves out of the hole they were in.

While I don't doubt that I lack the full picture on the company, Dragon Lords of Melnibone was like a stake through the heart to me.  Those guys could have made themselves the big source for d20 dark fantasy.  Instead they blew their wad on a shoddy product for a license that no one cares about any more.

Quote from: zombenFair enough.
Ha!  Okay, I'm just coming from the perspective of someone who's run/played a lot of BRP, and a fair amount of D20.  What I found is that in the D20 games I ran, and played in, the players more often than not locked themselves in to what was specifically written on their sheets.  But maybe that's just my experience.

With the same players? I've seen a lot of the same, but usually as a sign of new players, or players who previously run by a rules-lawerly GM. For some kind of reason, most of them Shadowrun players...

Anyway, there is some truth in that. Some players have a hard time coming up with stuff of their own. It's always nice if the game offers some precedence for "cool stuff". I definitely agree that the D&D rule book doesn't do a good job there. It offers lots of options, but doesn't actually show that the players can add to that. Elric! was quite interesting in this regard, as the format of all those "point rules" (IIRC) made it look like they were just some kind of pre-fabricated GM decisions.

I'm all about clear and concise writing (sorry, Gary), but some of the more generic games are a little too bland and not evocative enough. To remain on-topic, Elfquest was at times more interesting than RQIII. And that comes from someone who can't stand those frikkin' wolf lovers...

Quote from: SosthenesTo remain on-topic, Elfquest was at times more interesting than RQIII. And that comes from someone who can't stand those frikkin' wolf lovers...

I think my kids like the big eyes.

!i!

Wasn't BRB release as a generic RPG in the past also ?

My question is this: Does it contain a billion or so ways to break a person?

Hit locations?
Critical hit locations?
Called shots?
Hit points?
Tiered hit points?
Penalties from damage?
Sanity and disease mechanics?

What's it got as far as all that detail?

Quote from: LacrioxusWasn't BRB release as a generic RPG in the past also ?

Yes, originally as a wonderfully brief, 16-page freebie contained in many of the boxed sets (also available by mail-order for something like $2 plus postage).  Then, in the late-90s, early-00s, an expanded (but rather sloppy) version was published for sale, followed more recently by the monograph editions that expanded upon that.

!i!

Quote from: beejazzMy question is this: Does it contain a billion or so ways to break a person?

Hit locations?
Critical hit locations?
Called shots?
Hit points?
Tiered hit points?
Penalties from damage?
Sanity and disease mechanics?

What's it got as far as all that detail?

If the forthcoming edition bears any resemblance to virtually every other iteration of BRP in specific games, it should have every one of those bulle points.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaIf the forthcoming edition bears any resemblance to virtually every other iteration of BRP in specific games, it should have every one of those bulle points.

!i!

[drool]Must have...[/drool]

Quote from: beejazz[drool]Must have...[/drool]

Looking back over things, some clarification may be in order.

• BRP has always featured hit locations -- they're virtually integral to the game.  
  
• Your whole body has a certain number of hit points based on your Constitution (and possibly modified by your Size, depending upon which rules you're using).  
• Each separate hit location has a number of hit points derived from your whole body's hit points.
• There are rules for impaling and critical hits, based upon a percentage of your attack skill.
• There aren't critical hit tables as such -- not in the Role Master sense of detailed mayhem, no.  However, you always know where your critical landed, and the heightened damage will take its toll on that specific location's hit points.

I think that clarifies matters a bit.  I didn't want to mislead anyone into thinking it's something that it's not.  It's also very worth noting that I'm referring to previously-published versions of BRP, not the forthcoming compendium.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaYes, originally as a wonderfully brief, 16-page freebie contained in many of the boxed sets (also available by mail-order for something like $2 plus postage).  Then, in the late-90s, early-00s, an expanded (but rather sloppy) version was published for sale, followed more recently by the monograph editions that expanded upon that.

!i!

Ok. Then why are people saying things like "They should have done this 20yrs ago". Sounds like they did. Basic rules only needed 16 pages back then. great. Then they released another version later on. Cool.

So how big is the Newest version going to be ?

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaLooking back over things, some clarification may be in order.

• BRP has always featured hit locations -- they're virtually integral to the game.  
  
• Your whole body has a certain number of hit points based on your Constitution (and possibly modified by your Size, depending upon which rules you're using).  
• Each separate hit location has a number of hit points derived from your whole body's hit points.
• There are rules for impaling and critical hits, based upon a percentage of your attack skill.
• There aren't critical hit tables as such -- not in the Role Master sense of detailed mayhem, no.  However, you always know where your critical landed, and the heightened damage will take its toll on that specific location's hit points.

I think that clarifies matters a bit.  I didn't want to mislead anyone into thinking it's something that it's not.  It's also very worth noting that I'm referring to previously-published versions of BRP, not the forthcoming compendium.

!i!

Cool by me. Uh... and on sanity, disease, poison, drugs (although the last I could maybe do without)... what's the story?

Quote from: beejazzCool by me. Uh... and on sanity, disease, poison, drugs (although the last I could maybe do without)... what's the story?

Sanity, and later drugs, were dealt with in CoC.  Poison was dealt with as far back as the first edition of RQ.  Disease...I seem to recall that from one of the CoC supplements.

!i!

Coolness.

Quote from: LacrioxusOk. Then why are people saying things like "They should have done this 20yrs ago". Sounds like they did. Basic rules only needed 16 pages back then. great. Then they released another version later on. Cool.

You know, I left out Worlds of Wonder, which was pretty much an expanded BRP toolkit released in the early 80s.  So, you're right -- it's a little misleading to say "They should've done this 20 years ago."  More accurately, they should have done it like they're doing now 10 years ago.

QuoteSo how big is the Newest version going to be ?

More than 16 pages.  Much more.  Zomben?

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaMore than 16 pages.  Much more.  Zomben?

Lots.  I'm going from the playtest draft, but I'm guessin we're looing at 250-300 pages.

i'm really looking forward to the various magic & power systems.  i can do "mundane" stuff great in BRP now.  i just don't have any experience with the supernatural/etc. side of the equation.

Quote from: beejazzCool by me. Uh... and on sanity, disease, poison, drugs (although the last I could maybe do without)... what's the story?

Sanity in BRP is basically going to be identical to the current rules in CoC.  Disease, Poison, Drugs, etc. will all most likely be covered in the "Spot Rules" section (don't recall, but I'm pretty sure all are covered).

But basically, Disease, Poison, Drugs are all handled the same way: each has a "rating" which is compared to an appropriate characteristic of the PC on the Resistance Table (IE: STR, CON, or sometimes POW).  If the "Drug" (or whatever) overcomes the PCs stat, then the effect takes place.

So, you might have something like Rattlesnake poison, which has a potency equal to the snake's CON, and is resisted by the PC's CON.  If the PC makes the roll, he takes minimal damage.  If the PC fails he roll, he might take a lot more, or die, or whatever.

Sweet.:D

BRB sounds like it will be fun to try out.

Quote from: zombenBut basically, Disease, Poison, Drugs are all handled the same way: each has a "rating" which is compared to an appropriate characteristic of the PC on the Resistance Table (IE: STR, CON, or sometimes POW).  If the "Drug" (or whatever) overcomes the PCs stat, then the effect takes place.

Oh, yeah.  D'uh.  I totally forgot about disease spirits from RQ.  So, yeah, disease is completely covered.  As zomben indicated above, one of the neat things about the BRP system is that, given the scale chose, any of your character's stats can be used as a "saving roll".  No great shakes by today's standards, because it's become commonplace in so many systems, but BRP had integrated features like this from the get-go.  Contrary to many complaints, it remains a very contemporary system.

!i!

I'm really going to have to check this out. You say it comes out in fall? Think I'll be able to pick up an early copy at GenCon? Or should I not get my hopes up?

Quote from: zombenI doubt it.  My guess is that if anything BRP may sell a few more copies from people who got GORE, and want the 'full' version of the rules.

I'd go so far as to say I'll be in this category. It's not a pre-order for me, but I figure seeing it will jog my memory some day after release and I'll go "Oh yeah, that's supposed to be awesome!" and I'll buy it because GORE was neat but felt like some parts were written to fit time and space ("Let's just do 2 pages of gear!") rather than to give you enough to work with.

My players love percentile systems more than I do - I find them fiddly, and missing by 1% sucks - but I guess I can hack up some kind of "near miss" system for rolls within 5 of success.

Question:

Are they doing anything really new or did they just collect all the mechanics from any games that used the BRP System, clean them up and stick them in a book?

I am just curious

Quote from: Blue DevilQuestion:

Are they doing anything really new or did they just collect all the mechanics from any games that used the BRP System, clean them up and stick them in a book?

I am just curious

I suppose you could say it's a collection of bits from various BRP games.  However, all of he rules in the current book were reexamined, playtested thoroughly, and cleaned up where they needed minor tweaks and changes.

Essentially, there's a 'core' version of the BRP rules in the book (closest to Stormbringer 5) and then tons of optional rules drawn from numerous other BRP sources.

And the rules are very modular and easy to morph/meld as well.  For example, I've been working on combining the Sanity rules (from CoC) and the Fatigue rules (from RQIII) into what I'm calling "Stress".  This is a system for tracking stress based on constant effects of fear, paranoia and terror.  It's specifically designed to model te sorts of mental degeneration you see in a zombie film like Night of the Living Dead, etc.

Point being "Stress" is a new rule I'm coming up with, but is directly drawn from concepts presented in the core book.

How's that for a complete tangent?

Quote from: Christmas ApeMy players love percentile systems more than I do - I find them fiddly, and missing by 1% sucks - but I guess I can hack up some kind of "near miss" system for rolls within 5 of success.

Psst!  Here's a secret.  Round all percentile scores up to the nearest multiple of 5 and leave it at that.  That's how RQ did it originally.  Take it one step further by rounding up to the nearest multiple of 5 and divide by 5, giving you a score from 1 to 20.  Roll a d20 instead of percentile dice.  That's essentially how King Arthur Pendragon does it.

Just remember that it's all abstraction.  Each single percentile over or under a multiple of 5 is largely insignificant when rolling for success.  Instead, it really serves as an "experience point" for the players, giving them a sense that their character is improving toward the next incremental level of mastery.

Can I start singing the praises of BRP's experience mechanics now? :)

Quote from: zombenPoint being "Stress" is a new rule I'm coming up with, but is directly drawn from concepts presented in the core book.

How's that for a complete tangent?

Not nearly tangential enough.  You left out schoolgirls' panties.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaNot nearly tangential enough.  You left out schoolgirls' panties.

i'll see that tangent and raise a set of tentacles!

ah shit, i didn't just go there. . .

I've noticed that quite a few threads lately tend to end up with discussions of schoolgirls........nicely done, kudos to you all!  :D

Thanks for the pre-review (or whatever the appropriate term is) Zomben, I will probably be among those who check out BRP once it is published.  I've had great experience in the past using BRP materials in my RQ games and IMO the genius of the system is the versatility.  My poor RQ players have been hit with Pan Tangians, Gran Bretanians, Great Old Ones, and even stuff from Corum, Ringworld and Elfquest (not all in one game of course).

For that reason alone, as well as my fondness for Chaosium, I'm going to pick up a copy.