Quote from: Daedalus;390267Has happened too often to be just a situation of a bad GM/Player.  Not worth it to me to take the risk so all Palladium fans are banned from groups I am in.

Wow.  You are a fuckin worthless piece of shit.

Quote from: FrankTrollman;390521Never played a game of Maid. But I do like making characters for that game. They are so... weird.

-Frank

I feel like Rifts and Exalted fit in the remaining 22% somewhere, along with some 80s cartoons.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;390662Wow.  You are a fuckin worthless piece of shit.

Because I wont game with shitty players, allowing them ruin my fun?  Then I guess I am guilty as charged.

This is a hobby that's supposed to be fun, and if we have to accept players into the group that will make the game not fun then its not a hobby worth being part of.

I am not trying to kick them out of the hobby ala The Pundit and the (SIC) Swine, I am just saying that palladium players should play with their own kind, gamers at their level of gaming and I will play with gamers at my level.

That way everyone can have fun

Quote from: Daedalus;390666palladium players should play with their own kind, gamers at their level of gaming and I will play with gamers at my level.

This is rich.

QuoteSteve Jackson is Munchkin Man.

Steve Jackson has over three million dollars of sales per year. GURPS is on its last legs, but Steve Jackson Games is going strong. Still independent, still profitable, still looking to the future.

Do not put Steve Jackson Games on a list of companies that Palladium has outlasted. SJG was founded first and it will be standing later.

-Frank

Quote from: Daedalus;390666Because I wont game with shitty players, allowing them ruin my fun?  Then I guess I am guilty as charged.

This is a hobby that's supposed to be fun, and if we have to accept players into the group that will make the game not fun then its not a hobby worth being part of.

I am not trying to kick them out of the hobby ala The Pundit and the (SIC) Swine, I am just saying that palladium players should play with their own kind, gamers at their level of gaming and I will play with gamers at my level.

That way everyone can have fun

I used to play a shit ton of Palladium games.  I have also won Best RPer awards in others.  I've had multiple people tell me I am one of the best GMs they have ever played under.  ***

I've run and played a ton of systems, and would love to run and play in even more.

So to your blanket bullshit egotist statement because I DARE to play a Palladium game I suck shit by default.

I wonder what your stances are on non gaming things.

"Durr!  I met one rude Indian cabbie so I hate all Indians!"

Sounds pretty bugfuck retarded don't it?




*** I've also learned from mistakes GMing or being a player too.  The only way to improve is to experience.

Quote from: Spinachcat;390649Except this "shit business man" has keept a RPG company alive and kicking for 25 years when all the other dudes who started companies in the early 80s are long gone.

TSR is gone.  
FASA is gone.
FGU is gone.
Judges Guild is gone.
Steve Jackson is Munchkin Man.  
And Flying Buffalo is undead.

But Palladium is alive.   Maybe bleeding and limping, but unlike many other dudes who started RPG companies, Kevin has kept his company alive.

So how can KS be a "shit business man" if he is standing while most of his contemporaries have either bailed on RPGs or just closed shop?

Well which fucking is it? "Alive and kicking" or "bleeding and limping"? As I said before, he has kept his company alive (and just fucking barely) despite himself. He has kept his company alive by preying on his own writers and the goodwill of his fans through manipulation. He screws his freelancers over. He consistantly finds excuses to under-produce material, over-micromanage, and completely not live up to promises and deadlines. The only things keeping Palladium alive, other than '80's nostalgia (*cough*Robotech*cough*), are his continued auctions of every sketch, proof, and promo edition he ever found tucked in a back corner of his basement, and the amazing ability to emotionally manipulate fans into donating money at every drop of the word "crisis". Meanwhile, from a business standpoint, he continues to deliver empty promises and lies.

Palladium has been around since the 80's, yeah, but they have NEVER FLOURISHED SINCE THEN. The potential is/was there for so much more. But KS has succeeded at chasing off every worthwhile writer they have had in 30 fucking years. Coffin, Carrella, those names ring a fucking bell? That is bad business. The whole Dead Reign fiasco? Bad Business. The fucking Nokia N-gage game? Bad fucking business. The arm-long list of product promised and vapour-wared (uh, Mechanoids Space anyone? or Recon, Christ I could go on for a fucking hour here)? B-A-D B-U-S-I-N-E-S-S. Palladium is what it has been, and will always be (until he rides it into the ground), a niche producer in an already niche and shrinking industry, because of his stubborn refusal to evolve. He is the Coelacanth of RPG's. A veritable dinosaur that is still swimming around despite itself, that is still doomed to extinction, just later than anticipated.

Where KS is bowing and scraping for money, yeah, SJ is a wealthy man and his company continues to actually MAKE MONEY.

Fuck, man! Just fucking forget it. Believe whatever the fuck you have to, to sleep at night.

And Daedalus, you are an elitist fucking douche. End of story.

I'm a shitty player if I even like Palladiums fluff? Get Fucked.

And have a nice day.

Quote from: FrankTrollman;390690Steve Jackson has over three million dollars of sales per year. GURPS is on its last legs, but Steve Jackson Games is going strong. Still independent, still profitable, still looking to the future.

Do not put Steve Jackson Games on a list of companies that Palladium has outlasted. SJG was founded first and it will be standing later.

-Frank

So SJG is not really much of a RPG company any more, it's a toy game company. Palladium has always been a pure rpg company.

And while KS may be a dick as business but a nice guy personally, steve jackson may be a biz wiz but personally he's an asshole. A smug, snarky, bullying, texas sized asshole.

Hell, what he recently did to one of his long term MIBs proved that.

Quote from: Cylonophile;390742So SJG is not really much of a RPG company any more, it's a toy game company. Palladium has always been a pure rpg company.

And while KS may be a dick as business but a nice guy personally, steve jackson may be a biz wiz but personally he's an asshole. A smug, snarky, bullying, texas sized asshole.

Hell, what he recently did to one of his long term MIBs proved that.

I could give a shit less if SJ is a dick or a nice guy. He makes money. That was my point. The assertion (by spinachcat) was that KS is a good businessman because his company still existed. I point to SJG (well Frank did it for me really) as a company that still existed AND IS STILL MAKING MONEY. So what if he makes toys now. That is the kind of evolution that has kept the company solvent. Evolution that KS has no concept of.

Quote from: Cylonophile;390742Hell, what he recently did to one of his long term MIBs proved that.

...?

Quote from: IMLegend;390745I could give a shit less if SJ is a dick or a nice guy. He makes money. That was my point. The assertion (by spinachcat) was that KS is a good businessman because his company still existed. I point to SJG (well Frank did it for me really) as a company that still existed AND IS STILL MAKING MONEY. So what if he makes toys now. That is the kind of evolution that has kept the company solvent. Evolution that KS has no concept of.

By that definition, if Kevin uprooted Palladium to Colorado, and became a medical marijuana grower making money hands over fist, he'd by a successful RPG salesman?

I think the point is still valid: SJG is profitable, but not really in the RPG business anymore. Just like Carella & Coffin were successful writer's, that have since left the RPG biz cause they found there was better money in other endeavours.

Kevin is, for better or worse, about the only old grognard publisher left. SJ & PS (and others I'm probably forgetting) have been doing it as long, but most of them have done it for multiple companies at this point, or made RPG's their "side business".

Quote from: Werekoala;390749...?

http://mechgogo.livejournal.com/271290.html

Wow - what an incredibly one-sided rant devoid of any content whatsoever. No details, not one, of poor little him getting the axe for "asking to be left alone" and yet you present it as Exhibit A as to Steve Jackson being an asshole.

Yarly?

I think that's a meaningless distinction though. Steve Jackson still makes GURPS and is still in business. Most of his revenue is from party games, but GURPS products still do happen.

D&D is still being made. It used to be made by Tactical Studies Rules, which was dissolved and then D&D was made by the newly formed TSR. And then TSR was purchased by Wizards of the Coast. And eventually, WotC stopped putting the TSR logo on things altogether. And WotC was purchased by Hasbro. And Hasbro is still putting the WotC logo on things, but they could stop at any time. And there is even talk of Hasbro getting bought - but the WotC logo seems fit to stay where it is.

But the point is: through all that corporate restructuring, there wasn't a point where people stopped making D&D. Gygax and Arneson are both dead now, and they weren't really involved for some time before then. But there was always a continuity of some kind with the guys making D&D before and after any corporate restructuring. Hell, Bill Slavicsek was writing Fantasy Conversions of Paranoia before there was a RIFTS.

What's so fucking special about KS? It's not that he's kept a game running longer than other people - D&D and Champions are both older than RIFTS. He doesn't make TMNT any more. It's not that he has kept a creative staff together longer than other people - because he has not kept a creative staff together. The classic Palladium writers are pretty much all gone to greener pastures or obscurity and death. It's not that he's kept a small personal company solvent for longer than other people, because Steve Jackson has been going longer and with a better history of solvency. And it isn't that he has some sort of amazingly unique brand formation or anything, because Games Workshop is still standing 35 years later.

-Frank