Quote from: thedungeondelver;391494I guarantee you could find yourself in a group of people - all of whom have played Palladium-whatever and without you asking (or them lying to you), you'd never know the damn difference.

Not true at all.  I have played with Palladium gamers before and they are such poor gamers and have the munchkin style of gaming I can spot them from a mile away.

They may get in but they get discovered and are kicked out quickly.

You want to game with Shitty gamers, fine ask all the Palladium players to join your group.   They arent welcome in my group.

I may not like palladium games system, but the settings are Ok and I've played them with some guys who bought into the palladium system because the books were cheap and they got them at a sweet deal on closeout. It was that or have just a few expensive hardback color books from other companies.

At least KS keeps palladium books affordable by making them softcover and flat B&W. That's some business sense.

Some people insist on going to hardback, slick paper and full color, equaling "KA CHIIIING!" when you go to buy them. *KOFF* sjg*KOFF*wotc*KOFF*

Some people don't have or don't want to lay out that kind of green for game books. Also, palladium's B&W art if very functional and tends to illustrate the things being discussed so you have an idea of what it looks like or maybe how it works.

Transhuman space has some weird gadgets like a "mobile helmet" that was never really explained or illustrated, despite people asking for an illo to see how the hell it was supposed to work. At least in palladium the thing would have had at least a simple illo to give you an idea.

Also, some of my game friends that bought palladium stuff are actually good GMs who run mature, intelligent games despite the weaknesses of the palladium system.

True, I have decried KS for not allowing official conversions of his stuff to other systems, which would only help the sales of palladium stuff as people bought sourcebooks secure in the knowledge they could make consistent, easy and balanced conversions to systems they liked, and I in some ways pity and despise KS for stubbornly not allowing those conversions to be officially done, but I don't think he's a terrible person or even the worst businessman in game history. His decisions to keep palladium books affordable are laudable and the fact things get functional, instructive illustration is also a good idea some larger companies don't practice.

Sure, I'd rather play other systems than palladium, even gurps, but I have friends who bought a LOAD of palladium stuff on the cheap side and they run good games with the system, so I don't think palladium gamers are bad or necessarily play like dorks or munchkins.

Laslty, in a ROLE PLAYING GAME the rules should only apply part of the time, like when you're in combat or making a skill roll. The rest of the time you're ROLE PLAYING YOUR CHARACTER with is an activity between you, the other players and the GM that the rules have little to do with. Making good likes, thinking thru a puzzle, etc often require few rolls is ROLE PLAYED PROPERLY.

ROLE PLAYING can be done with virtually any system, not matter how poor, evven palladiums.

Sure I prefer a good system, but I and other good gamers can still ROLE PLAY even with poor rules.

Damn, it's no wonder the modstapo on tBP almost ban palladium discussions.

Quote from: Cylonophile;391510Some people don't have or don't want to lay out that kind of green for game books.

Some people don't, but those are probably the folks who weren't going to buy your product anyway. The price point for RPG isn't in the impulse buy range for people who can't afford a $40 book. Unless you know your output per month is greater than your customers' gaming book budget, you're basically opting out of additional monies.

Let's say your average customer's budget is $60 per month for gaming materials. You release one book per month. Your one release, at $25, falls easily within their budget. You could upgrade your release and sell it for $40. That's still within their budget.

If you were releasing three books a month, it'd behoove you to keep them at an MSRP around $25 so your customers could afford all of them. A price point of $40 would just ensure that folks only picked up one instead of all three.

But, obviously, Palladium does not release more than a book a month. In fact, do they even release that many products? We know from the Crisis of Treachery that Palladium fans can afford a fair bit.

Thus all Siembieda is really doing is ensuring that he doesn't make as much as he might otherwise do under a different model.

And, really, Palladium's price points aren't that much lower. Their latest offering is $24.95 and a comparable WotC hardback is $29.95.

Seanchai

Quote from: Daedalus;391484First, I didn't call you CatPissMen, I didnt say Palladium players smell like piss and behave badly, I said Palladium players have a style of play that I do not think is good and I don't want to play with them.

Fair enough, I apologize for the mischaracterization.
You're saying Palladium gamers are shitty gamers (which I think is a debatable point), not shitty people. And CatPissMen are just shitty people; the fact they're gamers is secondary.

QuoteNot true at all. I have played with Palladium gamers before and they are such poor gamers and have the munchkin style of gaming I can spot them from a mile away.

They may get in but they get discovered and are kicked out quickly.

You want to game with Shitty gamers, fine ask all the Palladium players to join your group. They arent welcome in my group.

...and then you jump off the cliff.
Does it take both hands, to paint with a brush that wide?

Quote from: Cylonophile;391495One thing is that fatbeard boy is always dropping these hints about what a laides man he is and what a big badass he is. He's always talking about girlfriends and how he tells people he doesn't approve of to "just walk away" form his games and how he was picked as a bodyguard form some un named trek celebrity to keep the "fhanboys" away.

I mean, PUH LEEZE! His bullshit just gets on people's nerves with him always claiming to have girlfriends and to be a badass. Christ, I know at least one person who'd dearly love to give him a chance to prove what a badass he is in person.

Also, he once had an avatar of him standing next to some woman in costume, and she looked like she was about to gag.

So that's a big part of why some people hate him, he's just so stunningly full of shit it annoys some people.

Some social groups have somebody fitting this description.

Many years ago I got to know quite well one non-gamer person, who was like this.  This person was always bragging about various conquests, and constantly name dropping.  We eventually figured out what really went on, from asking the "conquests" what actually happened, along with asking the "name dropped" individuals (if possible) what they thought of this person.

In the end, this person typically found another group of people to dazzle with "name dropping" and stories of conquests, when the previous groups were no longer dazzled.

Quote from: ggroy;391547Some social groups have somebody fitting this description.

Many years ago I got to know quite well one non-gamer person, who was like this.  This person was always bragging about various conquests, and constantly name dropping.  We eventually figured out what really went on, from asking the "conquests" what actually happened, along with asking the "name dropped" individuals (if possible) what they thought of this person.

In the end, this person typically found another group of people to dazzle with "name dropping" and stories of conquests, when the previous groups were no longer dazzled.

However, in this case, Cylonophile is full of shit.

Oh its not 'name-dropping' if I've actually met lots of people because of the places I went to doing mostly normal things. (Helps, there was a charity involved usually - people are pre-disposed to being cordial and friendly when donating to charities)


Oh and I never said I was a 'ladies man' - just said I had women gamers in my group and that it was pretty normal for RPG groups to include women. It still strikes me odd that others don't have that situation in their game groups.

Getting back on topic: So for obvious reasons I would be more loikely to try a Palladium/RIFTS game if that particular local gamer and her friends had an opening in their group.

- Ed C.


P.S.: @ Cylonophile : Dude, grow up. You get yourself banned from that other forum website. I had nothing to do with it.

Quote from: Cylonophile;391510True, I have decried KS for not allowing official conversions of his stuff to other systems, which would only help the sales of palladium stuff as people bought sourcebooks secure in the knowledge they could make consistent, easy and balanced conversions to systems they liked...

Palladium is my favorite system because of the freedom it provides (:

Consistent, easy, and balanced are never words I apply to Palladium's material.

In Koltar's defense, I think having a girl around balances things out a lot and makes it more fun.

5 guys and 1 girl at a bar is always more fun than 6 guys. Same is true for gaming. Even if no one is dating her, even if such a thing never would happen, even if there is no flirting or anything else, I think the chemistry balances out better.

Quote from: Cranewings;391555In Koltar's defense, I think having a girl around balances things out a lot and makes it more fun.

5 guys and 1 girl at a bar is always more fun than 6 guys. Same is true for gaming. Even if no one is dating her, even if such a thing never would happen, even if there is no flirting or anything else, I think the chemistry balances out better.

Even better at least 2 to 3 women - that way its much more like real life. Game feels more natural that way. (In a group of 4 to 6 players & 1 GM)

Also that when GM-ing such groups the guys tend to act smarter or play their characters better when there are at least two women gamers at the table.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;391553However, in this case, Cylonophile is full of shit.

Oh its not 'name-dropping' if I've actually met lots of people because of the places I went to doing mostly normal things. (Helps, there was a charity involved usually - people are pre-disposed to being cordial and friendly when donating to charities)

Oh and I never said I was a 'ladies man' - just said I had women gamers in my group and that it was pretty normal for RPG groups to include women. It still strikes me odd that others don't have that situation in their game groups.

If this is the case, then I stand corrected.

With that being said, what somebody is "dazzled" by, may very well change with time.  With respect to this particular non-gamer individual I've been referring to, stories of conquests and "name dropping" may not be as impressive anymore these days, compared to decades ago when one is younger and naive.

When I was younger and more naive, I use to think the guys who designed Chaosium's rpg games were geniuses.  Fast forward several decades, game design is no longer a "black art" and isn't so impressive anymore.

Quote from: Novastar;391539Fair enough, I apologize for the mischaracterization.

Accepted

Quote from: Novastar;391539You're saying Palladium gamers are shitty gamers (which I think is a debatable point), not shitty people.

You are right that I don't think they are shitty people, just shitty gamers.  And you can debate all you like, I have played with enough Palladium gamers to know they are shitty gamers.

Quote from: Novastar;391539And CatPissMen are just shitty people; the fact they're gamers is secondary.

Correct, CatPissMen are shitty people whether they are playing role playing games, doing model trains, playing historical minatures or doing crossword puzzles.  Their interests having nothing to do with them being shitty people.

Quote from: Novastar;391539...and then you jump off the cliff.
Does it take both hands, to paint with a brush that wide?

Nope, I haven't jumped off any cliff.  As I stated before I have gamed with enough Palladium gamers to know they are shitty gamers and could not hang in my games.

I don't care if it's you or Kevin Siembieda himself, there is a specific playstyle that Palladium's games and their gamers employ that is not fun to me.  Thus, why I have the "stick with your own" mindset when it comes to Palladium gamers.  

I run fast, fun games and I do not accept whining, if you are going to whine go somewhere else.  I play games with game systems that fit the game and the genre, I don't use games with poor systems.    Palladium gamers are used to using an outdated system that is quite broken.   I actually heard a few of them actually have the nerve to say that the Palladium system emulated the Robotech RPG the right way.

Are you kidding?  That was the worst system for the Robotech Genre (A genre I group up with and love.

Palladium Gamers just couldn't hang in any of my games, whether it is a book I bought from my FLGS or one that I developed, they arent used to playing games that emualte correctly.

I have tried to be open and allow anyone, but Palladium gamers come in and ruin my fun.  So, they are no longer welcome.

Quote from: Cylonophile;391495Christ, I know at least one person who'd dearly love to give him a chance to prove what a badass he is in person.

Most of the individuals I've known over the years who were "badasses" for real, are now either in prison or they're dead (and now six feet underground).  That crowd is bad news for the most part.  Score settling is done by guns.

Whats so great about being a 'badass'?


Its always seemed better to have a 'cute ass' or a 'nice ass' - that way you get a second look more often. (or you might blush if not used to compliments)

- Ed C.


.....Once again Cylonophile is full of shit. Little 'ol me has never claimed to be a "badass" . Don't know where the fuck he got that from. Maybe he should decrease his caffeine intake.

Quote from: Koltar;391658Whats so great about being a 'badass'?

Some people have not gotten over their "machismo/macho" phase.

Quote from: Daedalus;391648Thus, why I have the "stick with your own" mindset when it comes to Palladium gamers.

So do a lot of Palladium fanboys, which I think is part of the problem.

QuoteI actually heard a few of them actually have the nerve to say that the Palladium system emulated the Robotech RPG the right way.

I'm not sure I'd want to play a game that emulated Robotech "the right way"; everything blows up after one hit!

I will say, much as I like Robotech, no it does not emulate the source material. It's closer to Battletech, IMO. But I still find it a lot of fun to play.

QuotePalladium Gamers just couldn't hang in any of my games, whether it is a book I bought from my FLGS or one that I developed, they arent used to playing games that emualte correctly.

I have tried to be open and allow anyone, but Palladium gamers come in and ruin my fun.  So, they are no longer welcome.

Gods help the guy who brings the wrong soda to your game...

Daedalus: This is a Coca-cola only house!

New Guy: Hey, hope you can make an except...

Daedalus: Get out of my house, you Pepsi freak!



Sorry Daedalus, you're just hitting me with shades of "One True Game(r)", which I've never understood. I understand there are personalities and expectations that just wouldn't gel with your group; hell, even I've had to throw someone out of the group before. I just find it questionable painting the entirety of anyone who plays, or has ever played, Palladium with that brush.