Quote from: Novastar;390750Kevin is, for better or worse, about the only old grognard publisher left. SJ & PS (and others I'm probably forgetting) have been doing it as long, but most of them have done it for multiple companies at this point, or made RPG's their "side business".

Chaosium is still publishing material, and has been so continuously for about 35 years. Charlie Krank, the president of the company, has been there for at least 30 of those years.

The bottom line is Palladium lost it's relevance.  While their brand of idiotic power fantasy sold well to the young back in the 90s, they stopped pulling them in a long time ago, and all that's left is mostly manchildren still clinging to it's juvenile charms.

I don't blame Daedalus at all for his policy.  While I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to blanket ban everyone who enjoys their games, a certified Palladium Mega-Fan (TM) (R) (C) certainly would set off warning bells in my head to keep an eye on him/her/it as a player.  Rifts is a game designed deliberately to appeal to the basest of munchkin powergaming retard, and the whole cult of personality built around Kevin and the company is fucking creepy.  

People like different games.  If someone's a huge fan of a game I personally find to be a useless fucking mess, it stands to reason we probably aren't going to have the same idea of fun.  I wouldn't bother with most 4e groups, or with a Forge round table, for the same reason.  I'm not bloody interested, and they probably won't be interested in what I want to play either.

Quote from: Cylonophile;390812And as a result of his business acumen his fans and supporters rallied behind him and put u-p the money to help his stay in business.

No. His fans rallied behind him because he told them what they wanted or needed to hear. I'm not saying that isn't smart (if manipulative), but that isn't business acumen.

Seanchai

Quote from: Cylonophile;390812

Quote from: Seanchai;390765He did essentially go out of business. The sole reason he has a shot to publish anything today is not because of his business acumen but because he begged his fans for money.

And as a result of his business acumen his fans and supporters rallied behind him and put u-p the money to help his stay in business.

No, the reason he's still in business is Erick Wujick (sp?) went to bat for him, and got investors to send in 3 times the money that the fans did, during "The Crisis of Treachery".

Quote from: J Arcane;390942The bottom line is Palladium lost it's relevance.  While their brand of idiotic power fantasy sold well to the young back in the 90s, they stopped pulling them in a long time ago, and all that's left is mostly manchildren still clinging to it's juvenile charms.

I don't blame Daedalus at all for his policy.  While I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to blanket ban everyone who enjoys their games, a certified Palladium Mega-Fan (TM) (R) (C) certainly would set off warning bells in my head to keep an eye on him/her/it as a player.  Rifts is a game designed deliberately to appeal to the basest of munchkin powergaming retard, and the whole cult of personality built around Kevin and the company is fucking creepy.  

People like different games.  If someone's a huge fan of a game I personally find to be a useless fucking mess, it stands to reason we probably aren't going to have the same idea of fun.  I wouldn't bother with most 4e groups, or with a Forge round table, for the same reason.  I'm not bloody interested, and they probably won't be interested in what I want to play either.

Just because someone likes one palladium game doesn't make them a palladium player per se.

Look, I like hard, crunchy SFRPGs with lots of details and chrome, like spacecraft rules, detailed combat, etc.

Now I also like "Fading suns", a very lite system that's very similar to the storyteller system in WW, (Never play nay WW games, BTW) and is more fantasy than science.

Why? Because I like a little change of pace now aND THEN, maybe I like switching to a simple system, even if FS is too simple. (Get this: Lots of the action in FS happens in space, and they have spacesuits, but no rules for vacuum or decompression, holes in your suit, etc.)

Ok, so maybe some people might like palladium once in a while as a change of pace. Hell, I got mechanoids, the original when I was a kid and was blown away by the scale of it and the storyline. I didn't like the palladium system even as a newbie gamer, bu I liked the ideas and such.

Just because someone might play a palladium game once in a while as a change of pace from, say, traveller or D&D does not make them a palladium fanboy anymore than me liking Fadinf suns at times makes me a stroyteller system gamer, it just means I like a little change now and then.


"I'd ban a gamer if he liked palladium games." What the fuck ever happened to tolerance and respecting other people's right to choose different things? It seems that since some hivemind invented political correctness for the left tolerance has just totally disappeared everywhere. Used to be just conservatives and hardcore religious types were the intolerant bigots, now intolerance seems to be everywhere...

He is respecting that right.  He's not preventing them from going off and playing some Palladium.

How about respecting his right to not want to play Palladium, or play in the munchkintastic style of Palladium's games?

After re-reading this thread and going to some of the links I've come to the conclusion that Kevin S. is going to start losing more of these legal actions as time goes on.

See, 10 to 15 years ago the title "RIFTS" might have been distinct and unique enough - but not nowadays.

 The general concept of a Rift in reality, time, or space has become part of the populasr culture because of several TV shows and movies. Most notably these STAR TREK TNG, DS9, and VOYAGER, STARGATES "SG-1" and "ATLANTIS", "DOCTOR WHO", TORCHWOOD,...and several others.

Hell, "TORCHWOOD" has a Rift manipulator as part of its main set and headquarters. That Rift is the reason for its fictional location.

At some point a judge or lawyer is going to tell poor Kevin S. this fact. He failed to both defend and popularize his version or concept of a 'rifts' or 'rifts'.   It would be like a game designer in the mid '70s calling his game STARSHIPS! and then trying to sue everyone who uses the term starship or starships in their books or movies.

Its become a pretty well-known concept or meme in Science Fiction and Fantasy.

At some point it just starts to look pretty silly.

Heck, TORG covered a lot of the same idea but at least it had a unique sounding name. (Even if STAR TREK III had a Klingon named Torg in it)


- Ed C.

Quote from: Novastar;391010No, the reason he's still in business is Erick Wujick (sp?) went to bat for him, and got investors to send in 3 times the money that the fans did, during "The Crisis of Treachery".

That's interesting. Do tell.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;391031

Quote from: NovastarNo, the reason he's still in business is Erick Wujick (sp?) went to bat for him, and got investors to send in 3 times the money that the fans did, during "The Crisis of Treachery".

That's interesting. Do tell.

Seanchai

Not much to talk about.
When Kevin went public, Erick basically hit up every person he knew with money, and basically said "Kevin needs money. Give it to him. I'll vouch."

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=516154

Quote from: Steve DubyaI'm pretty sure that the loans that Erick Wujcik helped secure (to the tune of ~$260K) were a shade more instrumental in preventing Palladium from tanking than anything else.

Yeah, its true. Erick Wujcik was always a very loyal guy.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Novastar;391040When Kevin went public, Erick basically hit up every person he knew with money, and basically said "Kevin needs money. Give it to him. I'll vouch."

The only part of that's kinda' hazy is if Kevin managed to get said loans before or after passing around the hat.

Quote from: Steve Dubya;391085The only part of that's kinda' hazy is if Kevin managed to get said loans before or after passing around the hat.

Wonder what concessions he had to make to get such a loan.

If I was a bank loan officer type, I would demand to look at all his financial books first.  If his finances are as bad as the public perception of the state of his company, I would either turn him down for a loan or demand he put up a lot of collateral.

It may be easier for him to get cash by taking out a second mortgage on his house, if he has house.  Though with the crappy state that real estate is in around Detroit, I'm not so sure it would be that easy to get a second mortgage these days.

Another option is Kevin finding a lawyer who is willing to work for a percentage of the settlement money, in lieu of their hourly fees.  If it's a slam dunk case, he can probably find such a lawyer who is willing to agree to such a payment scheme.

Quote from: ggroy;391089Wonder what concessions he had to make to get such a loan.

Oh, that's the thing - the loans that Erick Wujick managed to secure for him based on Erick going around and asking people to lend Kevin money are apparently on top of all the money/loans that Kevin already threw in himself.

QuoteI have borrowed tens of thousands in loans and sunk every dime I've had into Palladium Books. I'm selling everything I own to keep Palladium going. That's the real reason I'm selling my 25 year old toy collection, art and other items at the Palladium Open House.

And that can't bode well for their current financial well being, as he says here:

QuoteAt the moment, all my money has been getting funneled back in to Palladium and the lawsuit.

Quote from: J Arcane;391017He is respecting that right.  He's not preventing them from going off and playing some Palladium.

How about respecting his right to not want to play Palladium, or play in the munchkintastic style of Palladium's games?

Kinda like someone putting a sign over the door to his bar that says "no gays allowed" and saying he respects the rights of gays, as long as they go off and be gay elsewhere...