Hey all,

Just trying to knock some concepts about.

I'd quite like to run something where the PCs have a degree of responsibility or power or both, something where they are merchants or run a mercenary company or head a community, something where they are not just thugs wandering the landscape in other words.

I'd quite like the PCs to be defined not just by their own stats, but also by key relationships, with perhaps each PC having a bodyguard, a key servant or two and a small company of men or something like that.  That needn't be mechanically reflected, you could do that using Runequest after all, I'm thinking concept.

Tech no higher than 1970s, so post apoc would be fine but sf not.

The idea is the PC party partly having to deal with problems directly themselves, but partly also using connections, money, influence or hirelings where appropriate.

Not too sure about genre or whatever yet, magic or psi would be fine as would no magic or psi.

Any thoughts?  This is way inchoate right now but I want the PCs more as movers and shakers even if only on a local level, people who have a degree of clout and who can get things done directly or indirectly.

System if anyone thinks that way should be fairly trad and not too complex, otherwise Ars Magica would be the obvious choice.

Any thoughts?  Suggestions?  Anyone run anything even vaguely comparable that might inspire me?  Any thoughts out there welcome as this is currently way inchoate.  [Edit:  I used way inchoate twice in one post, I'm off to bed...]

Quote from: BalbinusHey all,

Just trying to knock some concepts about.

I'd quite like to run something where the PCs have a degree of responsibility or power or both, something where they are merchants or run a mercenary company or head a community, something where they are not just thugs wandering the landscape in other words.

I'd quite like the PCs to be defined not just by their own stats, but also by key relationships, with perhaps each PC having a bodyguard, a key servant or two and a small company of men or something like that.  That needn't be mechanically reflected, you could do that using Runequest after all, I'm thinking concept.

Tech no higher than 1970s, so post apoc would be fine but sf not.

The idea is the PC party partly having to deal with problems directly themselves, but partly also using connections, money, influence or hirelings where appropriate.

Not too sure about genre or whatever yet, magic or psi would be fine as would no magic or psi.

Any thoughts?  This is way inchoate right now but I want the PCs more as movers and shakers even if only on a local level, people who have a degree of clout and who can get things done directly or indirectly.

System if anyone thinks that way should be fairly trad and not too complex, otherwise Ars Magica would be the obvious choice.

Any thoughts?  Suggestions?  Anyone run anything even vaguely comparable that might inspire me?  Any thoughts out there welcome as this is currently way inchoate.  [Edit:  I used way inchoate twice in one post, I'm off to bed...]

This is another one of those moments where I wish my game was done, because I'd point you to it.  Part of the driving motive in A Song in the Dark is that the PCs are all scouts/hunters/etc. for their village, and one of the main bennies in the game is actualyl awarded for doing things that help the village survive.  

The PCs are expected to be the guys who go out into the wastes, to forage for food, to take out that bandit camp before they strike again, to lead the local militia if the village is attacked, that sort of thing.

I think it gives a nice excuse to go wandering, but while also keeping the PCs grounded in some kind of homebase.

Listen to the others, Balb!

-clash

Do you like ORE? They just put out Reign which has "company mechanics" (I can't stand ORE at all mind you, but if its your thing, its your thing )


Anyway in general have you ever played the PA game Fallout? Where the PC is essentially a popsicle survivor (defrosted from a bunker) out exploring the world around him who slowly rises up to be a power/mover and shaker in the world.

Or have you read the game Morrow Project for its setting..? (Similar to Fallout, though with fewer retro 50's humor/ideas, and more early late 70's/Early 80's sensibilities.)

Or have you ever played the video game Interstate 76? In which gasoline shortages lead to a semi PA world of car-warriors across badlands in 1976?

The reason I'm asking is I love post-apocalypse games, and like the idea of movers and shakers--and one way to implement it is to give the PC's some form of edge--either mechanically (i.e technology), or socially (leaders of tribes, military units with command structures.)

You put the characters in your brain stormed PA environment with said advantage--either knowledge, mechanics, social abilities whatever, and let them become mover's and shakers in the world by their will to utilize that advantage and make a difference in a Fallen world.

I'd probably combine some ideas (might even use a Thundarish "magic" PA setting, but that's me)

You have many factions to oppose them--Science Cults, Savages out for their resources, Religious groups who are misguided, or opposed to the return of the way things worked in the past. This gives them a reason to organize resistances that rely on one another for survival, and to thwart the machinations of the forces around them.

I'm trying to figure out if you're asking for suggestions of a system to use, or a setting, or both.  I'll assume the last.

Quote from: BalbinusI'd quite like to run something where the PCs have a degree of responsibility or power or both, something where they are merchants or run a mercenary company or head a community, something where they are not just thugs wandering the landscape in other words.

My immediate thought was Ars Magica, which is a game you mention yourself farther down in your post.

QuoteI'd quite like the PCs to be defined not just by their own stats, but also by key relationships...

I realise that you may not appreciate this, but HeroQuest is all about this sort of thing, but I know you're also familiar with handling this sort of thing mechanically with RQ through Paul Elliott's variants, too.

As far as general setting goes, this reminds me of the "Trouble Comes to Vinland" scenario I began to brainstorm a year ago.  The essence of the scenario is that all of the characters are deeply invested in the community they need to defend, not just for the sake of their own hides, but for the survival of their families in general.  Now, move this sort of scenario farther ahead in time, and you could have an Old West settler community having to maintain good relations with a native tribe on one hand, while fending off hostile advances of another trive on the other hand.

Is any of this getting at what you were trying to bang together?

!i!

A good Mafia game would end up in this camp, right?  You might look there for inspiration on craft.

Do you have a sense of how much the players should be dealing with the problems they cause, vs. dealing with the problems their subordinates bring to them, vs. dealing with problems from an external threat?  Seems to me like different mixes of those three elements would make for different games.

What you describe sounds like this :

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2847

which is something I'm running at the moment.

Regards,
David R

Post apocalyptic genre has a lot of possibilities. Just looking over my DVD collection next to me I see lots of sources of insperation. Reign of fire. The characters could be leaders of the community. How they react to Dragon attacks? Or worst yet the appearance of Americans. Any of the various road warrior movies. Member of law enforcement. But maybe move oriented toward the community. Not unlike the game David R. had going. (The name of which escapes me at the moment, sorry.) Or Maybe your out to help the oil worker/refiners like in the second movie. You could play it like the movie and have them at first be only out for fuel. But then give them a conection with the group. A reason to fight for them. Or hell have them start off as leaders of the group. Perhaphs the plan is to leave the compound when they get enough fuel to make it to Whereever. Maybe they have just been bartering with people. Fuel for food and supplies. But then a group of marauders starts raiding them. Do you move? Do you fight? Can you out last them? What will happen to the people you trade with? Or you could help guide the Tribe of children like in the third movie. Does one of your number wander off to a damngerous place? Is your tribe fighting with another? Are those nice men from the city of smoke actually nice people? It could be a road trip type adventure. It could be like "Damnation Alley" but with a larger group of survivors. Traveling across the wastes to some location. Because of the possibilties of a better life. Or more supplies. Or to get out of where they are. Maybe their just wandering till they find that place. That place promised to them by a dream.

Quote from: RoninAny of the various road warrior movies. Member of law enforcement. But maybe move oriented toward the community. Not unlike the game David R. had going. (The name of which escapes me at the moment, sorry.)

Burning Honour?

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5420&highlight=Burning+honour

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RWhat you describe sounds like [The Day of Living Dangerously] which is something I'm running at the moment.

And Pundy's recommendation of Over The Edge might be a good fit for the sort of game Balbinus is considering.  What system did you settle on, David?  How is the game working out?  Not that I'm asking as a deraileur, but as possible inspiration in the context of the thread.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWhat system did you settle on, David?

Over the Edge That's why I don't really like pissing in the Pundit's soup...too often..because the guy did recommend a system which delivered the kind of fun my group was looking for.

QuoteHow is the game working out?  Not that I'm asking as a deraileur, but as possible inspiration in the context of the thread.

Running along smoothly. Only one of the seven pc has any "combat" traits, the rest have to rely on hired muscle - special branch, local cops, in one memorable twist in the campaign the local underworld chaps. "Action" is stuff like pcs roaming around Bangkok with security solving problems which crop up. Add to this their own character "issues" that get entangled in their professional ones.Hence there are numerous threads running along the main campaign goal...which is to ensure that elections run smoothly and a specific candidate is chosen :raise: One pc has remained in the "control room" for all 15 adventures coordinating or at least trying to, all the chaos which has been erupting for the past 15 hours in game time.

Of course they have the means to control parts of the media - in reality the Thai media has a rep for being one of the least controlled media around the area - but because of real world events which the campaign is based on, the pcs now have the ability to spin events a certain way.

OtE is the perfect system (IMO) because not only is combat pretty fast paced and thus to be avoided, creating npcs is a damn easy task. And believe me, at last count there were 37 important npcs in various stages of play.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: BalbinusSystem if anyone thinks that way should be fairly trad and not too complex, otherwise Ars Magica would be the obvious choice.

Would Burning Wheel fit these parameters? It seems like from prior reading you have or are familiar with the game.

You could do a great 'movers and shakers' game using five lifepath characters. The Relationships from character generation would seem to fit your needs to a tee. The "I need a Crew" rules from character generation would support hirelings/underlings/small armies. Circles would serve you well in emulating the sort of far-reaching contacts that men and women of power have. Duel of Wits would help give political/social wrangling real bite.

Here are a few broad concepts that I've toyed around with before that would seem to fit the bill (you didn't say HOW pre-1970s the tech had to be!):

Oh the Angst!: You are the rear guard of the elves as they sail into the west and abandon this land to the brutish rampaging barbarian humans. Many of your people have lost the will to fight and sit listlessly on the docks for weeks, waiting for the next ship to be built. Some would turn to spite (dark elves) as all that is beautiful is destroyed by these upstart animals. Some would argue that holding within the last seaside citadel in a place of strength is the best course of action. Some would send an army out to meet this horde and bloody its nose before it can close on the women, children, and elders. Where do your characters (captains, princes, sword singers, rangers) stand in these last desperate days?

Merchant Princes: Your family has, of late, been among the least of the Council of Twelve in the great merchant league city...your father is old and not as energetic as he once was, but his sons and daughters are filled with ambition, vigor, and tales of glory that once was. Use your relationships, resources, wit, blade, and cudgel to claw your way back to the top!

Honor amongst Thieves: The characters are all lieutenants (or other sorts of higher ups...enforcers, sorcerers, money-men) in the greatest thieves' guild in the greatest city of the greatest empire. And the master has just died. There's a power vacuum and you aim to fill it, but there are many impediments in your way, not the least of which is the new bloody handed and reputedly MORAL governor that has just arrived in town. How do you make sure that you come out on top without weakening the guild through infighting and losing the whole ball of wax?  

Tim

Whatever system you choose, you can cultivate in-game ownership and clout by NOT awarding character points. Characters can still become more powerful, but they can only do so by securing in-game advantages like superior weaponry, faster transportation, stronger allies etc.... In other words, the very things you want them to be responsible for.

In a post apoc setting, begining characters might start out with melted shoes and moderate radiation burns. But then they build up a base, find some food, get some weapons, recieve some medical attention and those same characters are fifty times tougher -- all without gaining a single xp.

Optionaly, you could allow new PCs to be drawn from the team's allies. So if you manage an orphanage, form an alliance with the Pole-cats and thaw a squad of frozen super-soldiers , new PCs can be orphans, pole cats or super-soldiers.

I've run Ars Magica, and there's nothing wrong with having a covenant in a fixed location. But it might be more adventure-of-the-week to have a mothership or semi-truck or whatever to drive from peril to peril. Just be sure to make homebase worth fighting for.

Systemwise I'd go with Amber DRPG. Out of the box it's geared towards politics, ownership, armies and henchmen.

Quote from: BalbinusAny thoughts?  Suggestions?  Anyone run anything even vaguely comparable that might inspire me?  Any thoughts out there welcome as this is currently way inchoate.  

1970's tech strikes me as an interesting tech limit... why'd you choose the 70's?

I think Tony's mafia / organized crime idea is a good one given your parameters.

Another possibility would be spies working out of an embassy with covers as diplomats (and assume that the host nation is well aware they're spies so that the game doesn't end as soon as a PC makes a mistake).

I've both run and played in D&D games where the PC's clean out a ruined keep and then set up shop as a local Lord, leading to a mix of politics, governing, accounting, and continued adventuring. That sounds like it kind of fits the bill.

Cheers,
-E.

Quote from: David RBurning Honour?

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5420&highlight=Burning+honour

Regards,
David R

Yup, thats the one!