I'm in the mood for some dark/urban fantasy after falling off the World of Darkness bandwagon a decade ago, but few of the games I've found have fleshed out backgrounds. Everlasting has an overly flowery kitchen sink background and Witchcraft isn't detailed enough for what it's trying to do.
I'm not attached to any particular system, so I figured I might as well just devise a background that could be fit into whatever rules I'm using at the time. Since brainstorming and writing background is a time intensive process, I thought to ask if anyone here wanted to share their thoughts too.
Is there some reason reading any of the voluminous fiction in this genre is not an option?
I always thought what would make for a good "you are the monster" -type game would be one where you ha to deal with all the consequences as a person of being the monster, rather than roleplaying out the time as a monster.
For example, a werewolf game where you periodically black out and wake up somewhere in the woods, naked and covered in blood and entrails. You just roleplay the time you are conscious as a human, and trying to find ways to cope with and get around your periodic condition, as well as dealing with people hunting you, the police, and keeping your "other side" away from anyone you care about.
Quote from: daniel_ream;891843Is there some reason reading any of the voluminous fiction in this genre is not an option?
90% of it is just WoD fanfic
Quote from: TristramEvans;891844I always thought what would make for a good "you are the monster" -type game would be one where you ha to deal with all the consequences as a person of being the monster, rather than roleplaying out the time as a monster.
Reminds me of a movie I saw recently,
Ava's Possessions, which follows a woman in the aftermath of a demonic possession... having to account for the destruction she caused, assigned by the court to a Spirit Possession Anonymous program, and trying figure out the huge bloodstain on her apartment floor.
What kind of dark urban fantasy did you have in mind? Something like White Wolf but different in some ways? What elements of the Worlds of Darkness do you like and which do you dislike? That could help us brainstorm a bit. Would you just like us to suggest dark urban fantasy ideas and we could collectively create a setting? Those sorts of forum games can be fun.
I've always thought it might be cool to have Addams Family sort of beings (are they human? Not quite) in an urban fantasy setting but play them straight and not just as dark humor.
Crayon, what angle are you looking for? Humans vs. Monsters? Players as the Monsters? Secret Societies? Things I've missed mentioning?
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;891804I'm in the mood for some dark/urban fantasy after falling off the World of Darkness bandwagon a decade ago, but few of the games I've found have fleshed out backgrounds. Everlasting has an overly flowery kitchen sink background and Witchcraft isn't detailed enough for what it's trying to do.
I'm not attached to any particular system, so I figured I might as well just devise a background that could be fit into whatever rules I'm using at the time. Since brainstorming and writing background is a time intensive process, I thought to ask if anyone here wanted to share their thoughts too.
It would be nice to learn what games you've found already. After all, there are a few quite well written, with a substantial settings and there's a possibility you didn't know them. There's also a question of what you mean by "urban fantasy", because for some it's "our cities, only faeeeeeries" (along the lines of Harry Potter) and for others - contemporary times, but there's also second reality to it, more darker and sinister (as presented in WoD).
So...
Unknown Armies. KULT. Dreaming Cities. JAGS Wonderland. Fluxborn. Exquisite Replicas. Hoodoo Blues. Any version of Gaiman's
Neverwhere (not very detailed by default, but it's ready to be updated with any "now we're here, now we're in fantasy world" material ranging from Neverwhere itself to Locke & Key comic books series). To the extent -
Over the Edge, Don't Rest Your Head, Night's Black Agents and Fear Itself.Perhaps you're ok to move the time a bit forward and then you might want to read
Kuro, Armageddon, Conspiracy X, Daemornia, SLA Industries (heh),
And of course, if everything else fails, there's always good ol'
Call of Cthulhu, or one of its offshoots.
As for the sources of inspiration - simply visit some site featuring movies/books reviews and read a few "the best of" lists. You'll find a few good suggestions in no time.
See, the problem here is that your question is too vague and it might be interpreted in more than one way, so unless you don't give us some more details... ;)
Nightbane...
Thou shalt discover Nightbane!
Seriously, it rocketh most hardeth. It's WoD minus the angst.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightbane
http://palladium-store.com/1001/product/730-Nightbane-Role-Playing-Game.html
Quote from: TristramEvans;89184590% of it is just WoD fanfic
And the games themselves aren't?
Anyway, take a shot at Emma Bull's
Finder, which very much isn't.
Quote from: Spinachcat;891860Nightbane...
Thou shalt discover Nightbane!
Seriously, it rocketh most hardeth. It's WoD minus the angst.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightbane
http://palladium-store.com/1001/product/730-Nightbane-Role-Playing-Game.html
Yeah but...Palladium mechanics. I sense it might be WoD without the angst, but with squared bad editing.
This reads very much like, "amuse me..." Without parameters and desires it's a crapshoot to guess what you're in the mood for.
Therefore I suggest Little Fears meets Toon.
More feedback gets better suggestions.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;891853Crayon, what angle are you looking for? Humans vs. Monsters? Players as the Monsters? Secret Societies? Things I've missed mentioning?
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;891849What kind of dark urban fantasy did you have in mind? Something like White Wolf but different in some ways? What elements of the Worlds of Darkness do you like and which do you dislike? That could help us brainstorm a bit. Would you just like us to suggest dark urban fantasy ideas and we could collectively create a setting? Those sorts of forum games can be fun.
I've always thought it might be cool to have Addams Family sort of beings (are they human? Not quite) in an urban fantasy setting but play them straight and not just as dark humor.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;891855It would be nice to learn what games you've found already. After all, there are a few quite well written, with a substantial settings and there's a possibility you didn't know them. There's also a question of what you mean by "urban fantasy", because for some it's "our cities, only faeeeeeries" (along the lines of Harry Potter) and for others - contemporary times, but there's also second reality to it, more darker and sinister (as presented in WoD).
So...
Unknown Armies. KULT. Dreaming Cities. JAGS Wonderland. Fluxborn. Exquisite Replicas. Hoodoo Blues. Any version of Gaiman's Neverwhere (not very detailed by default, but it's ready to be updated with any "now we're here, now we're in fantasy world" material ranging from Neverwhere itself to Locke & Key comic books series). To the extent - Over the Edge, Don't Rest Your Head, Night's Black Agents and Fear Itself.
Perhaps you're ok to move the time a bit forward and then you might want to read Kuro, Armageddon, Conspiracy X, Daemornia, SLA Industries (heh),
And of course, if everything else fails, there's always good ol' Call of Cthulhu, or one of its offshoots.
As for the sources of inspiration - simply visit some site featuring movies/books reviews and read a few "the best of" lists. You'll find a few good suggestions in no time.
See, the problem here is that your question is too vague and it might be interpreted in more than one way, so unless you don't give us some more details... ;)
Quote from: Opaopajr;891905This reads very much like, "amuse me..." Without parameters and desires it's a crapshoot to guess what you're in the mood for.
Therefore I suggest Little Fears meets Toon.
More feedback gets better suggestions.
My mistake. My goto games include recent titles like Monster of the Week, Monsterhearts, Urban Shadows, Feed, Vampire City, Undying, etc. What they all have in common is a relative scarcity of background in comparison to, say, World of Darkness, Everlasting, Dresden Files or even Witchcraft.
I want a setting that may support the main paranormal subgenres: monster hunting in the vein of Buffy, Charmed, Angel, Supernatural, Sleepy Hollow, etc; teen drama in the vein of Vampire Diaries, Teen Wolf, etc; soap opera in the vein of Dark Shadows, Being Human, Once Upon A Time, etc. At the same time, I don't want to restrict the monsters to any one set of powers/limitations (a la the broad varieties of vampire and werewolf in Dresden Files or Witchcraft) and I don't want the setting to feel absurdly overcrowded like World of Darkness or Everlasting.
In not so many words, I'm looking for a happy medium between the unwieldy in games like Everlasting or Nephilim and the minimalism in games like Witchcraft.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;891906I want a setting that may(...)
The majority of things you're asking about aren't "fulfilled" by the game/setting itself. It's GM's job to select what to use, when, how and in what quantity. In addition, there's no way to tell "how much is too much" without being yourself, so...
Tell you what. Check games that were suggested already. Reviews, excerpts and even quickstart rules are available for at least some.
It kind of sounds like you don't want a developed setting, but that you want to be able to have human characters encounter a variety of monsters. In that case, just make the monsters and let PC's encounter them.
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;891931It kind of sounds like you don't want a developed setting, but that you want to be able to have human characters encounter a variety of monsters. In that case, just make the monsters and let PC's encounter them.
I want to develop a setting.
When you say "dark/urban fantasy" what sort of fantasy are you thinking... elves, dwarves, vampires, and pixies?
Or something weirder ala The Twilight Zone... like... suddenly in the middle of the bustling city a shiny pink 3 meter cube appears, 2 meters above the ground with no support. Extrapolate 5 or 10 years from its arrival, after having proven invulnerable and immoveable... what sorts of changes has it wrought on the city around it? What new cults have begun to worship the thing or see it as a sign of imminent apocalypse... as ultimate evil or holy perfection? Who has moved in to be closer to it? Who moved away? Who has found ways to gain power and fortune from the thing? Will there be a war over it?
Or maybe set it in a normal metropolis but all the PCs are pigeons, rats, and cockroaches... various factions fighting to survive.
Or maybe all the PCs are homeless vagrants with mental disorders brought on by their magical powers and true-sight. As they war against unseen demons to protect the unknowing and ungrateful city they are treated like subhuman filth by people who cannot see them as the selfless heroes they actually are.
Robert Preston is dutifully at his post, chanting out wards to protect the banking district but the wage slaves around him just see old Bob shouting at cars like he does every Tuesday after a full moon.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;891906I want a setting that may support the main paranormal subgenres: monster hunting in the vein of Buffy, Charmed, Angel, Supernatural, Sleepy Hollow, etc; teen drama in the vein of Vampire Diaries, Teen Wolf, etc; soap opera in the vein of Dark Shadows, Being Human, Once Upon A Time, etc. At the same time, I don't want to restrict the monsters to any one set of powers/limitations (a la the broad varieties of vampire and werewolf in Dresden Files or Witchcraft) and I don't want the setting to feel absurdly overcrowded like World of Darkness or Everlasting.
Monster Hunting, Teen Drama, Soap Opera. Undefined creature powers. Creatures rare.
So... Scooby Doo meets Call of Cthulhu, with Josie & the Pussycats as a double feature.
Got it. Did you want it grimdark serious? Kill Thelma. Scooby snacks made of opium cake. :)
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;891959I want to develop a setting.
Sorry, bro, but if you seek sources of inspiration, it means you're too clueless and not passionate enough to make it happen. Use one of already written settings, add a tweak or two, focus your attention on the development of better scenarios.
It's not only easier that way. It's also more reasonable.
Godspeed. :cheerleader:
Quote from: Opaopajr;892011Monster Hunting, Teen Drama, Soap Opera. Undefined creature powers. Creatures rare.
So... Scooby Doo meets Call of Cthulhu, with Josie & the Pussycats as a double feature.
Got it. Did you want it grimdark serious? Kill Thelma. Scooby snacks made of opium cake. :)
This reminds me... ;)
(https://s21.postimg.org/gm0x36thj/tokens+-+scooby-characters.jpg)
Quote from: JesterRaiin;892016Sorry, bro, but if you seek sources of inspiration, it means you're too clueless and not passionate enough to make it happen. Use one of already written settings, add a tweak or two, focus your attention on the development of better scenarios.
It's not only easier that way. It's also more reasonable.
Godspeed. :cheerleader:
I had inspiration, I thought? It will take time to compose my thoughts and present a premise. I will try to post something substantial later today.
Well, I bolded your parameters above...
It definitely needs an atmosphere, preferably more descriptive than "dark." I mean, that's the Brightness dial, but you still need the Contrast & Humor dial at the very least. And even then you got to put all those dials together to get an encapsulating "pitch" sentence.
You haven't even defined Time & Space beyond vagaries of "modern" and "earth." You have a lot of work to do.
:idunno:
Quote from: Simlasa;891978When you say "dark/urban fantasy" what sort of fantasy are you thinking... elves, dwarves, vampires, and pixies?
Or something weirder ala The Twilight Zone... like... suddenly in the middle of the bustling city a shiny pink 3 meter cube appears, 2 meters above the ground with no support. Extrapolate 5 or 10 years from its arrival, after having proven invulnerable and immoveable... what sorts of changes has it wrought on the city around it? What new cults have begun to worship the thing or see it as a sign of imminent apocalypse... as ultimate evil or holy perfection? Who has moved in to be closer to it? Who moved away? Who has found ways to gain power and fortune from the thing? Will there be a war over it?
Or maybe set it in a normal metropolis but all the PCs are pigeons, rats, and cockroaches... various factions fighting to survive.
Or maybe all the PCs are homeless vagrants with mental disorders brought on by their magical powers and true-sight. As they war against unseen demons to protect the unknowing and ungrateful city they are treated like subhuman filth by people who cannot see them as the selfless heroes they actually are.
Robert Preston is dutifully at his post, chanting out wards to protect the banking district but the wage slaves around him just see old Bob shouting at cars like he does every Tuesday after a full moon.
Quote from: Opaopajr;892011Monster Hunting, Teen Drama, Soap Opera. Undefined creature powers. Creatures rare.
So... Scooby Doo meets Call of Cthulhu, with Josie & the Pussycats as a double feature.
Got it. Did you want it grimdark serious? Kill Thelma. Scooby snacks made of opium cake. :)
Quote from: Opaopajr;892023Well, I bolded your parameters above...
It definitely needs an atmosphere, preferably more descriptive than "dark." I mean, that's the Brightness dial, but you still need the Contrast & Humor dial at the very least. And even then you got to put all those dials together to get an encapsulating "pitch" sentence.
You haven't even defined Time & Space beyond vagaries of "modern" and "earth." You have a lot of work to do.
:idunno:
Here is my very, very basic pitch.
Welcome to Goth Emo Punk World (or GEMPW for short). GEMPW is just like our real world, only more goth and emo and stuff. Everybody listens to Linkin Park, cut themselves, join gangs and stuff. Also, all myths, fairytales, urban legends, proverbs, Victorian fiction, new age nonsense and stuff are true too. Vampires feed, ghosts haunt, witches eat children, Cthulhu dreams, whatever.
In this campaign setting, the PCs are generally normal people (aka muggles) who uncover the awful truths of the universe, paranormal investigators, self-styled monster hunters, some flavor of transhuman or outright monsters. You're probably more interested in the latter and that will be the focus of today's tract. First, question time.
What makes a monster? Don't get hung up the details. GEMPW doesn't restrict its monsters to a particular set of metaphysical rules. Among my inspirations,
Dresden Files has four types of vampires and five types of werewolves and
Nephilim makes all myths manifestations of the same elemental forces. Invent as many different varieties as you like. Go wild.
Where did the paranormal come from and where is it going? If the PCs are transhuman or abhuman, then they're probably descended from Great Old Ones or someone fighting Great Old Ones at least indirectly. Whether you want to call it vampire intelligences, fomorians, moon goddess, Atlantis, or what have you, in the end it all boils down to Great Old Ones. Of course, if you bring in Great Old Ones then the plot will revolve completely around them, but this isn't
Call of Cthulhu so just leave it be.
How has the paranormal remained hidden from the public eye? I'll keep it simple: it can't, so fate conspires against convincing existence of the paranormal. Visual and audio is distorted beyond recognition (or simply looks like SFX), records are inevitably corrupted or lost, etc. When most muggles confront the supernatural, they either refuse to recognize it at all or blot it from memory after they've escaped with their lives.
What do the PCs actually do? Now we're getting to the interesting part. Meaningful conflict is the soul of drama. Now you just need to define what that conflict is. Who (or what) are the PCs, what do they want, what obstacles must they overcome, and why are they working together? What's the best way to answer those questions? Rolling on random tables.
And that's today's tract. Yeah, I know it is super generic compared to elegant originality like homeless crazy people secretly fighting malevolent forces no one else can see. But, unfortunately for originality, I'm going more in the vein of the new age mythic games like Nightlife and its many imitators. Random tables, mythic history and factions will follow eventually. Criticism desired.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;892061Welcome to Goth Emo Punk World (or GEMPW for short). GEMPW is just like our real world, only more goth and emo and stuff. Everybody listens to Linkin Park, cut themselves, join gangs and stuff.
A mess of retro kids joining gangs while also being moody, suicidal loners. OK.
QuoteAlso, all myths, fairytales, urban legends, proverbs, Victorian fiction, new age nonsense and stuff are true too. Vampires feed, ghosts haunt, witches eat children, Cthulhu dreams, whatever.
Thor vs. Zeus in the middle of Union Square while Baba Yaga snacks down on a schoolbus full of 4th graders and dragons roost on the rooftops.
There's not going to be much city left for it to fill the 'urban' requirement. It's basically Rifts... or Armageddon if you know that setting. Kitchen sink apocalypse. OK.
QuoteWhat makes a monster? Don't get hung up the details. GEMPW doesn't restrict its monsters to a particular set of metaphysical rules.
No rules means no shape... just a big shapeless mess that eats itself. OK.
QuoteWhere did the paranormal come from and where is it going? If the PCs are transhuman or abhuman, then they're probably descended from Great Old Ones or someone fighting Great Old Ones at least indirectly.
So a big shapeless mess that is eating itself for no reason. OK. Azathoth!
QuoteHow has the paranormal remained hidden from the public eye? I'll keep it simple: it can't, so fate conspires against convincing existence of the paranormal.
So Azathoth is invisible. OK.
QuoteWhat do the PCs actually do? Now we're getting to the interesting part. Meaningful conflict is the soul of drama. Now you just need to define what that conflict is. Who (or what) are the PCs, what do they want, what obstacles must they overcome, and why are they working together? What's the best way to answer those questions? Rolling on random tables.
So the suicidal loner gang kids wander randomly across the surface of invisible Azathoth, emoting randomly.
QuoteAnd that's today's tract. Yeah, I know it is super generic
I don't know that I'd call it generic... just formless. It's everything and nothing. The whole encyclopedia soaked in all 31 flavors and dragged through a Vegas buffet.
The most important thing about creativity is choosing what you are NOT going to do. Without boundaries, paralysis; without boundaries, scattered energies and no audience connection (even if it's an audience of one, the author alone).
So... it's a kitchen sink world, with petulant and angsty teen melodrama as a major mood factor. And then it's everything to everybody so no one's left out -- which means it's nothing to everybody because nothing stands out.
Painting in a palette with all the colors known, then mixed together, in all perspectives and styles simultaneously, is a muddied incoherent mess. SOMEONE MUST BE ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN. No definition, no character, no interest.
Keep going... you need to make tougher decisions than this.
Quote from: Simlasa;892074A mess of retro kids joining gangs while also being moody, suicidal loners. OK.
Thor vs. Zeus in the middle of Union Square while Baba Yaga snacks down on a schoolbus full of 4th graders and dragons roost on the rooftops.
There's not going to be much city left for it to fill the 'urban' requirement. It's basically Rifts... or Armageddon if you know that setting. Kitchen sink apocalypse. OK.
Actually this bit? Sounds awesome... But I don't think you have to destroy the city... I mean, how big are the Dragons that roost on rooftops? And what if they have a deal with the City? Also, what if the City was an Entity in itself, so that the damage caused doesn't actually destroy permanently?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;892079Actually this bit? Sounds awesome... But I don't think you have to destroy the city... I mean, how big are the Dragons that roost on rooftops? And what if they have a deal with the City? Also, what if the City was an Entity in itself, so that the damage caused doesn't actually destroy permanently?
Yeah, I really like the idea of the city itself being an entity/god... and various factions of the PCs and creatures working for/against it.
That starts me thinking about
Nexus: The Infinite City, another kitchen-sink urban setting. Giving it sentience would just add another cool level of weird.
Once again, it sounds like the setting you want is so open ended that it isn't really a setting. There are no set abilities for monsters, all monsters potentially exist, there is no monster culture.
Since it sounds like this will just be for your own campaign, you don't really even to write anything down, not that is that much to write. Just leave things as being mysterious for your players and throw what ever creatures at them that you like. Since there are no set abilities for any given creature type, you don't need rules for vampires, werewolves, gargoyles, ghosts, etc. Just come up with rules for each individual you introduce to the players as needed.
Quote from: TristramEvans;89184590% of it is just WoD fanfic
I don't think that describes Clive Barker's _Books of Blood_, _Cabal_, Simon Green's _Nightside_ series or Charles de Lint's _Newport_ books. Although many of those were inspirations for the oWoD.
What if the City's priorities were what was what makes it odd.
Instead of caring about individuals, it's more about who or what is where. If you murder someone, the City might not care at all, but if a bunch of Wererats decided that they wanted to take over a suburb, and the ensuing rush of people leaving, then the City might take notice and start doing 'things' to correct that issue.
For the most part, every one knows that the City is 'alive', but for the most part it just doesn't seem to care, until you do that one little thing... Which might change from day to day, week to week or month to month, even.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;892089What if the City's priorities were what was what makes it odd.
Good idea!
I'd been thinking also about Mayfair's Underground game and its system for reflecting the PCs actions on their neighborhoods. That the city is a bit 'Azathoth' (blind idiot god) in its actions/defenses, but if the PCs can keep the peace on their turf it will remain 'stable' or even assist them somehow.
Your idea would mean 'stable' is something different depending on when/where you go.
Quote from: Ravenswing;891899And the games themselves aren't?
The influence of WoD on RPG writing has been nothing short of pervasive. If D&D wasn't top dog in the industry, I think we'd have gotten flooded with White Wolf heartbreakers by now.
QuoteAnyway, take a shot at Emma Bull's Finder, which very much isn't.
I like Emma Bull, and Charles De Lint, both of whom do some great Urban Fantasy. I also liked GURPs: Cabal and Unknown Armies, both of which stand head and shoulders above WoD insofar as the "secret supernatural societies living among you" premise.
And I wish they weren't in the minority in comparison to stuff like True Blood.
Quote from: daniel_ream;892087I don't think that describes Clive Barker's _Books of Blood_, _Cabal_, Simon Green's _Nightside_ series or Charles de Lint's _Newport_ books. Although many of those were inspirations for the oWoD.
Books of Blood are flat out horror. There's not much of any aspect that could be called "urban fantasy" to them. Cabal (which is the one Nightbreed was based on IIRC? Havent read Barker since my teens in the 90s) could be construed as such, , I suppose. It was kinda like X-men with the "metaphor" turned up to 11 though. Thinking on it, I never really thought "hey that was a book about monsters living in our society", just "that was a book about being gay." Don't know Simon Green, and mentioned De Lint already, but obviously things
predating the WoD aren't WoD fanfic.
Quote from: TristramEvans;892101Books of Blood are flat out horror.
Vampires and werewolves aren't? Yes, yes, I'm being facetious, but if Kult is urban fantasy, then _Books of Blood_ surely is - since much of Kult is taken directly from Barker's work.
QuoteThere's not much of any aspect that could be called "urban fantasy" to them.
This has more to do with the term "urban fantasy", like "high fantasy", losing its original meaning in favour of a shrivelled and more narrow definition. "Urban fantasy"
shouldn't be synonymous with WoD, nor even supernatural noir, but it's become so. I'm not about to run down the various short stories in B0B and point out the implied existence of secret supernatural societies in an urban setting in them; that exercise is left to the reader.
Quotejust "that was a book about being gay."
You can read that into the movie if you really work at it; the book not so much. Since monsters == persecuted gay people is a lazy and common trope it's easy to assume that, but that's really not the subtext. It really is exactly what it appears to be: a work that explores "what if the monsters were the heroes of the story?"
QuoteDon't know Simon Green
Harry Dresden done by somebody who isn't an RPG geek.
Quotebut obviously things predating the WoD aren't WoD fanfic.
My point is that there's a lot of urban fantasy that is not well-described as "WoD fanfic", although if you want to lump paranormal romance in there I'll concede that the percentage is over 99%.
Quote from: daniel_ream;892122Vampires and werewolves aren't? Yes, yes, I'm being facetious, but if Kult is urban fantasy, then _Books of Blood_ surely is - since much of Kult is taken directly from Barker's work.
Nah, Kult is horror as well.
QuoteThis has more to do with the term "urban fantasy", like "high fantasy", losing its original meaning in favour of a shrivelled and more narrow definition.
I fight that impulse.
Keeps me constantly busy online.
QuoteYou can read that into the movie if you really work at it; the book not so much. Since monsters == persecuted gay people is a lazy and common trope it's easy to assume that, but that's really not the subtext. It really is exactly what it appears to be: a work that explores "what if the monsters were the heroes of the story?"
It was veryVERY obvious subtext to me as an ignorant teenager in the 90s. Its really the only significant thing I remember about the book. Thats great if you can enjoy the story without
seeing it.
QuoteHarry Dresden done by somebody who isn't an RPG geek.
Don't know who that is either.
QuoteMy point is that there's a lot of urban fantasy that is not well-described as "WoD fanfic", although if you want to lump paranormal romance in there I'll concede that the percentage is over 99%.
six of one , half a dozen of the other
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;892061Here is my very, very basic pitch.
Welcome to Goth Emo Punk World (or GEMPW for short). GEMPW is just like our real world, only more goth and emo and stuff.
There's not a single element here that requires the development of a separate setting/game to work. Everything you've just described wouldn't take much work, really - merely a tweak or a small injection to the background of already written setting or a campaign.
With that in mind:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ELVzzMmcL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
^ It's pretty much your idea + comedy.
(https://www.blackgate.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/CryptWorld1.jpg)
^ It's Chill's successor, a very well done framework for
monster of the week+investigators. Go wild.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vEmPGa32L._BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
^ Another framework, it features non-human PCs and pretty much everything you describe sans emo stuff.
And of course, there's always Call of Cthulhu.
Quote from: Simlasa;892074A mess of retro kids joining gangs while also being moody, suicidal loners. OK.
Thor vs. Zeus in the middle of Union Square while Baba Yaga snacks down on a schoolbus full of 4th graders and dragons roost on the rooftops.
There's not going to be much city left for it to fill the 'urban' requirement. It's basically Rifts... or Armageddon if you know that setting. Kitchen sink apocalypse. OK.
No rules means no shape... just a big shapeless mess that eats itself. OK.
So a big shapeless mess that is eating itself for no reason. OK. Azathoth!
So Azathoth is invisible. OK.
So the suicidal loner gang kids wander randomly across the surface of invisible Azathoth, emoting randomly.
I don't know that I'd call it generic... just formless. It's everything and nothing. The whole encyclopedia soaked in all 31 flavors and dragged through a Vegas buffet.
Quote from: Opaopajr;892075The most important thing about creativity is choosing what you are NOT going to do. Without boundaries, paralysis; without boundaries, scattered energies and no audience connection (even if it's an audience of one, the author alone).
So... it's a kitchen sink world, with petulant and angsty teen melodrama as a major mood factor. And then it's everything to everybody so no one's left out -- which means it's nothing to everybody because nothing stands out.
Painting in a palette with all the colors known, then mixed together, in all perspectives and styles simultaneously, is a muddied incoherent mess. SOMEONE MUST BE ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN. No definition, no character, no interest.
Keep going... you need to make tougher decisions than this.
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;892082Once again, it sounds like the setting you want is so open ended that it isn't really a setting. There are no set abilities for monsters, all monsters potentially exist, there is no monster culture.
Since it sounds like this will just be for your own campaign, you don't really even to write anything down, not that is that much to write. Just leave things as being mysterious for your players and throw what ever creatures at them that you like. Since there are no set abilities for any given creature type, you don't need rules for vampires, werewolves, gargoyles, ghosts, etc. Just come up with rules for each individual you introduce to the players as needed.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;892132There's not a single element here that requires the development of a separate setting/game to work. Everything you've just described wouldn't take much work, really - merely a tweak or a small injection to the background of already written setting or a campaign.
With that in mind:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ELVzzMmcL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
^ It's pretty much your idea + comedy.
(https://www.blackgate.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/CryptWorld1.jpg)
^ It's Chill's successor, a very well done framework for monster of the week+investigators. Go wild.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vEmPGa32L._BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
^ Another framework, it features non-human PCs and pretty much everything you describe sans emo stuff.
And of course, there's always Call of Cthulhu.
Good advice and good questions. The setting, largely undefined as yet, is intended to be a pastiche which may be easily dropped in otherwise setting lite games. In other words, distilling and tweaking from all those other well defined settings.
So to answer some of those questions:
The paranormal is low key, so there aren't destructive superhero battles happening in plain sight. Or if there are the collateral damage is passed off as gas explosions and similar mundane disasters.
The angsty melodrama is more parody than serious.*
Factions and secret cultures are a thing, but probably most relevant if the campaign is politically focused.
*For example, a party that consists of an ancient vampire cursed into the form of a doll, a lonely shoggoth looking for love, a meek timid kid with the power of heart, a dead ice hockey player stuck in the body of a professional ice skater, and a wisecracking talking skull.
It would require more time to hammer stuff out. Over and out.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;892509a meek timid kid with the power of heart
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/98/98d261a385044122870ab2296ee9348aaeb5e121a741602500d97566dca9966b.jpg)
So:
discreet secrecy (like Cold War skirmishes, Masquerade, swept under rug),
lots of humor (parody),
factions & politics available (Craig's List of supernatural fixers & sweepers?).
Alright, so what is the Contrast? Is there any morality that matters at all? How hypocritical or muddied reality makes ideals?
And, what's the point of play here? What are the driving conflicts or opportunities?
Quote from: Opaopajr;892526So:
discreet secrecy (like Cold War skirmishes, Masquerade, swept under rug),
lots of humor (parody),
factions & politics available (Craig's List of supernatural fixers & sweepers?).
There's a sliding scale between comedy and horror, since some groups may prefer one over the other.
QuoteAlright, so what is the Contrast? Is there any morality that matters at all? How hypocritical or muddied reality makes ideals?
And, what's the point of play here? What are the driving conflicts or opportunities?
Depending on what rules you're using, you might have mechanics for sanity, corruption or psychotic breaks.
If the campaign is morally focused, it might be like Interview with the Vampire where characters struggle against their monstrous addictions. The characters might be jerks who callously toy with human lives and jockey with one another for power. Or it could be like Angel, where the characters fight against evil.
There are two moral forces in the cosmos (I'm referencing BTVS now). The "evil" great old ones and the "good" powers that be. The PTB are arrogant jerks with poor understanding of humanity, but they just happen not to be utterly indifferent to human suffering.
A little less noncommittal, please.
You can have comedy with your horror; it's been a staple for decades. If you want parody or farce it means a lot of the comedy is front-loaded and in-your-face. The horror comes over time whence the obvious humor recedes into the mundane.
Similarly, you need to embrace any bold choice you make for contrast between protagonists v. antagonists.
Sounds to me like the Angel version of CineUni would work for the type of setting you have in mind. Just have everyone design their own "demon" characters. For further inspiration the All Flesh Must Be Eaten line is generally compatible, and usually has new powers for building monsters. Any of which could then be used for PCs or antagonists.
Either that, or a supers system with street level (or slightly above) caps. M&M could work, as could a tweaked Aberrant. Just make sure the special effects for powers are all appropriately urban fantasy monster based.
Quote from: Opaopajr;892871A little less noncommittal, please.
You can have comedy with your horror; it's been a staple for decades. If you want parody or farce it means a lot of the comedy is front-loaded and in-your-face. The horror comes over time whence the obvious humor recedes into the mundane.
Similarly, you need to embrace any bold choice you make for contrast between protagonists v. antagonists.
I'm not committed. Sometimes I might want to play lighthearted and other times grimdark with tongue firmly in cheek.
So now I'm going to say a bit about the mythic history.
In the beginning, demons ruled the earth and made it a living hell. Then the stars went wrong and they lost their purchase on reality. Like housepets left to fend for themselves, humanity swiftly moved to claim a transient dominance. While the great old ones were gone, they left things behind that would continue to bedevil humanity. One example is science: modern science is wrong and the universe really runs on magic and the anthropic principle.
There are numerous self-styled illuminati with the goal of taking over the world. They have all failed due to a combination of simple logistics (it takes forever to get anything done, you can't trust anyone and oh god the paperwork) and overwhelming competition (there are like a bajillion conspiracies working at cross purposes).
The most common paranormal entities (and the magical underpinnings of reality) are spirits: spirits of nature, spirits of the dead, spirits of great emotional turmoil, spirits of goodness and light, etc. The most common way to encounter spirits is to accidentally offend them and invoke their wrath. Open an umbrella indoors and the spirit of the building will curse you, break a mirror and the mirror's spirit will curse you, trepass into a haunted abandoned hospital and the ghosts will terrorize you, etc.
More to come later.