Publishers using another's trademark for a publicity stunt on a shitty module.

Quote from: Benoist;398768Publishers using another's trademark for a publicity stunt on a shitty module.

If that's the worst the industry has to offer then I would say it is doing pretty well.

Quote from: 837204563;398769If that's the worst the industry has to offer then I would say it is doing pretty well.

It's just the latest lame behavior I've seen. Just because there is worse doesn't excuse such actions.

But let's go deeper, shall we? It's not about the use of a trademark, the particular example itself. It's about the type of mentality it takes to get to such stupid stunts to sell a module. Guys just wanting to make an easy buck out of an RPG product. Guys in fact who do not love what they do, since they do not estimate the fruit of their work enough to let it stand on its own merits.

No. These guys are parasites. They're losers. Through and through.

Quote from: Werekoala;398706They can't sue Jack Chick for Freedom of Speech reasons, you dipstick. That, and they didn't really see it as a problem (which it isn't and wasn't - hell, it was free advertising).

Bullshit. He uses the name and didn't acknowledge copyright, that's violation.

Quote from: Fifth Element;398756In no country that I know of is freedom of speech absolute. There's the classic shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theatre example, and of course slander. There are many limitations to expressions, and I wouldn't be surprised if Chick's crap fell within one of them.

A little OT here but related, I think in most countries soe of chick's tracts would be illegal under hate speech laws. I know in one he linked homosexuality to child molestation and in some countries that's a crime.

Likewise most of  his tracts busting on islam would be illegal in some non islamic countries (they'd obviously be illegal in islamic countries) for defamation of religion.

Quote from: Peregrin;398690It's mostly like, RPGnet Forge guy says something Forge-ish in a very smug way (basically a holier-than-thou type statement), and the knights of trad games come and pounce on him, and then other Forge (or Forge-loving) guys come out and pounce back, and it turns into a completely incomprehensible and unproductive discussion with people trying to sound smarter than the opposition and get the last word in.

The only time I've ever seen them try to force anyone into seeing their way is if you bothered to post on the Forge.  Otherwise it was mostly people assuring each-other they were right, patting each-other on the back, and discussing games.  Well, I mean there were arguments, but you're talking about a very small group of people.  Which is a little too closed-circle for my taste when it comes to testing out ideas, but, mreh, I just play games, I don't design them.

So basically it's likely every single gaming forum, ever?

Quote from: Shazbot79;398781So basically it's likely every single gaming forum, ever?

Basically yes, few RPG forums have been free from forgies.

Quote from: Benoist;398770It's just the latest lame behavior I've seen. Just because there is worse doesn't excuse such actions.

But let's go deeper, shall we? It's not about the use of a trademark, the particular example itself. It's about the type of mentality it takes to get to such stupid stunts to sell a module. Guys just wanting to make an easy buck out of an RPG product. Guys in fact who do not love what they do, since they do not estimate the fruit of their work enough to let it stand on its own merits.

No. These guys are parasites. They're losers. Through and through.

Not to condone the stunt, but my understanding is that the module is actually pretty solid, and the use of the Jeff Easily (sp?) art is legit too.

Quote from: Peregrin;398569Channers are rude because the site lets them be, but I wouldn't call them evil or villains.  They're not actively damaging the hobby, and most of their interests (aside from the random porn threads) align with your average joe gamer (D&D, Warhammer, Battletech, occassionally WoD, etc.).

I dunno.  4chan has been pretty instrumental in the popularity of Maid.  

Then again, their willingness to be blatantly honest about what it's really about is handy for dealing with some of it's deniers, and there's just as much hostile response to it as friendly there.  

Still, it's an honest to god published hentai game, which probably never would've existed outside Japan if not for their influence.

Quote from: Shazbot79;398676Is there any actual documentation of a conspiracy to "convert" the majority of gamers to forge-ism besides the soiled, crumpled napkins that Pundit feverishly jotted his manifesto down on in the wee hours of the morning?

Because honestly, the above scenario sounds like conservative talk radio to me.

Oh they try, at least, it seems to be their intention, it's just that like all smug, self-important hipsters, their technique is lacking, and it mostly just pisses everyone off.

But give them an opening and they can and have invaded sites and damn near driven out regular conversation at the least.  The worst was back when Ron closed the theory forum on the Forge, the whole of fucking RPGnet got inundated with that hackneyed crap pretty quick like.  This site's had an invasion or two in the past as well.

It's aided by responses like yours most of all, of course.  People ignorant of the reality of past events, who start slinging FUD just to get a rise out of those of us who've actually witnessed it with our own eyes.  There's also the one's who aren't ignorant of it, but friendly to it, so of course in their eyes there never was any kind of untoward behavior because nothing the Forge could ever do would be untoward.  

Eventually, given time and distance and the internet's short memory, this attitude spreads, and those who still remember are dismisses as crazies or bitter or whatever by people who have no idea what their talking about, right up until the point when suddenly half the front page of a site is full of godawful Forge bullshit.  After a few months of constant flamewars and relentless trolling and shilling from all the usual "indie/story/Forge" people, people finally get fed up, bans are handed around, threads shifted to non-main forums, the heat dies down, and then everyone forgets all over again and the cycle begins anew.

It's been going on for as long as there's been a Forge or similar, and I'll be the first to admit I've been suckered into lowering my guard as well in the past, but after a while you start seeing why some folks like the Pundit wind up coming around to a very "zero tolerance" attitude towards their crap.  It comes across as blind hate to the ignorant, but those that've been around enough can see it for how necessary such an attitude really is.

So you say.

Gamers can be right smug cunts when it comes down to it...but the idea of some overarching conspiracy to take over really just sounds like a paranoid fantasy to me.

Of course, I've not seen any actual evidence of the "Great Forge War" beyond cryptic anecdotes from cats like you and pundit.

I would also include rpg.net as villains, but what more can i say about that site, particularly the attitude of its moderators, that hasn't alreay been said. I don't think i've ever met such a temperamental and hypocritical group of people online. I don't like to communicate the way they do, especially online. The discussion is limited, fragile and oppressive. I just do not understand why they feel the need to ban people every time - and then, when someone questions a mdo decision, to get picked apart by vultures who seem to lack the wit to see the hypocrisy of their position. It's so very sad.

Quote from: Shazbot79;398797So you say.

Gamers can be right smug cunts when it comes down to it...but the idea of some overarching conspiracy to take over really just sounds like a paranoid fantasy to me.

Of course, I've not seen any actual evidence of the "Great Forge War" beyond cryptic anecdotes from cats like you and pundit.

I wouldn't use the term "conspiracy", though I'm sure it sounds great to your ears because it furthers your goal of being pointlessly confrontational just to get a rise out of an easy target.

I don't know what motivates them on their end, or how coordinated or not they are.  There have been a few rare cases where threads have been found on their usual haunts purporting to encourage their members to show up on sites like this, but the actual effect of which is not verified.

What I do know is that site invasions have occured in the past where large groups of individuals from those sites and with those particular proclivities have shown up in packs on various websites to push their own little agenda, stuck around for a while until the mood turned sour enough, then promptly buggered off back to their own respective hidey-holes.

You can deny it all you want, the logs are there, on almost every website it's occurred on, it's a matter of public record.  And so are the various infamous statements and behaviors of these individuals, such as the "brain damage" nonsense, and the pirate rape fiasco, and so forth.

It's all there.  I'm sure for your purposes it's terribly inconvenient for such history to actually exist, as it sort of puts a hamper on pretending to be so much better than the rest of us if the events described actually occurred, but that is often the case when those with other motives seek to deny history.

Quote from: J Arcane;398801I wouldn't use the term "conspiracy", though I'm sure it sounds great to your ears because it furthers your goal of being pointlessly confrontational just to get a rise out of an easy target.

I don't know what motivates them on their end, or how coordinated or not they are.  There have been a few rare cases where threads have been found on their usual haunts purporting to encourage their members to show up on sites like this, but the actual effect of which is not verified.

What I do know is that site invasions have occured in the past where large groups of individuals from those sites and with those particular proclivities have shown up in packs on various websites to push their own little agenda, stuck around for a while until the mood turned sour enough, then promptly buggered off back to their own respective hidey-holes.

You can deny it all you want, the logs are there, on almost every website it's occurred on, it's a matter of public record.  And so are the various infamous statements and behaviors of these individuals, such as the "brain damage" nonsense, and the pirate rape fiasco, and so forth.

It's all there.  I'm sure for your purposes it's terribly inconvenient for such history to actually exist, as it sort of puts a hamper on pretending to be so much better than the rest of us if the events described actually occurred, but that is often the case when those with other motives seek to deny history.

I'm not pushing an agenda. I'm just skeptical that this whole forum invasion isn't just an exaggeration on your part.

If you link some threads I'll be happy to pore through them, and if you're right then I owe you a beer.

Quote from: Shazbot79;398804I'm not pushing an agenda. I'm just skeptical that this whole forum invasion isn't just an exaggeration on your part.

If you link some threads I'll be happy to pore through them, and if you're right then I owe you a beer.

I don't mean to accuse you of an agenda, so much as just a typical behavior I've encountered far too often to be anything but dismissive about.  

Some people just want to rebel, like teenagers snorting derisively at an old veteran, or putting on a Che shirt even if they don't even know what the hell it means, even if it means casually defending something that isn't exactly a glowing role model itself.  They just see an authority figure railing at something, and assume automatically he must be wrong.  It just happens on a faster timescale like everything else on the Internet.  Combine that with the attitude of many youth these days that anything negative is automatically bad, and you have a recipe for revisionism all baked up and ready to serve.

If my honest word, and that of countless others isn't enough for you, then I'm equally honest in saying I don't really care to do the work of your education for you.  Just don't be surprised when people call you an idiot for denying shit they've seen with their own two eyes a thousand times.

I'm tired of making the same blasted point again and again.

Quote from: Shazbot79;398804I'm not pushing an agenda. I'm just skeptical that this whole forum invasion isn't just an exaggeration on your part.

If you link some threads I'll be happy to pore through them, and if you're right then I owe you a beer.

It has to be true, otherwise J Arcane would have made his tinfoil hat for nothing.

Seriously, as soon as you use the word invsion for people with different opinions on a forum you need to step away from the keyboard as you are taking it way too seriously.