Quote from: Vellorian;399399I had to read this twice because I thought you were talking about Darren McClellan....

Everything you said applies to him equally....


At least Bruce has actually produced something...

Have you seen the shit Bruce has produced? The game that stole the "gamma world" name alone is good enough to make him beat out Darren.  Darren could only hope to be as huge a turd if he made a game that sucked at least that much (AND ruined a beloved license and legacy of a game in the process).

RPGPundit

Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;399395Pundit, you sound like everything stopped and went goth in 1991, but it didn't, did it?

Same year as Vampire came out (1991) TSR put out Rules Encyclopedia and the amount of supported settings for AD&D was freakin' huge from 1989 and onwards.  In 1992 Chaosium put out the, in my opinion, best edition of Call of Cthulhu, FASA published second edition Shadowrun and Atlas Games gave the world my all time favorite rpg book, Over the Edge 1st edition. Just to name a few, that was blissfully wank free!

Certainly, but it was a gradual process. The whole following-white-wolf's-example thing wasn't even at full gear until around 1994, and continued right up till 1999 even after it was extremely clear that just about everyone who allowed White Wolf to be their intellectual vanguard went bankrupt (including TSR).

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;399402Have you seen the shit Bruce has produced? The game that stole the "gamma world" name alone is good enough to make him beat out Darren.  Darren could only hope to be as huge a turd if he made a game that sucked at least that much (AND ruined a beloved license and legacy of a game in the process).

Y'know, I even rank the producers of FATAL and RoHaHaHaHa! (or whatever it's called) above Darren McClellan--because even though they produced crap, distasteful and grotesque books, at least they *produced* something and haven't spent a lifetime offensively berating others who achieve something.

That being said, was it Bruce that was responsible for destroying Macho Women With Guns, too?

Quote from: RPGPundit;399390I did. I specifically quit, for about a six-month period, on account of how sick I was of the general collapse of the hobby and the sort of shit that was coming out at that point.  The hobby stopped being fun anymore. I heard that again and again from people who quit in the gaming circles I was in back then.  Out of 20 or 30 people who were in my general gaming environment back then, I know of only one other person (besides me) who I am still absolutely sure games.

RPGPundit

I don't understand how it affected you at all. I mean, I disliked, and still have no use for, World of Darkness stuff. Back then, I simply went on playing what I'd always played and just ignored White Wolf. The reason my gaming came to a halt was because my groups disintegrated - some of them moved, some went to college, some got married, some had kids.

Another factor was that AD&D 2e met with a resounding lack of enthusiasm by what players I still had left by the early 90s. We'd wanted a new iteration of AD&D, having become fatigued of 1e after a decade or more, and when 2e didn't float our boats, we didn't have a lot to turn to that sparked our enthusiasm. We wanted D&D, but not the flavors available then. Had 3e (or hell, HackMaster) appeared instead of 2e, we might have played on through the rest of the 90s. But, maybe not. Maybe we just needed a break. Regardless, I can't imagine being driven out of the hobby by a game or genre I had no interest in in the first place. Then again, the only gaming "community" any of us had been part of had just been our local groups.

Quote from: Vellorian;399405Y'know, I even rank the producers of FATAL and RoHaHaHaHa! (or whatever it's called) above Darren McClellan--because even though they produced crap, distasteful and grotesque books, at least they *produced* something and haven't spent a lifetime offensively berating others who achieve something.

That being said, was it Bruce that was responsible for destroying Macho Women With Guns, too?

When was MWWG destroyed?

http://www.btrc.net/html/catmain.html#MWWG

Quote from: Cylonophile;399427When was MWWG destroyed?

http://www.btrc.net/html/catmain.html#MWWG

I was pretty disgusted with the version off it I saw in ... 2004?

Quote from: Vellorian;399405Y'know, I even rank the producers of FATAL and RoHaHaHaHa! (or whatever it's called) above Darren McClellan--because even though they produced crap, distasteful and grotesque books, at least they *produced* something and haven't spent a lifetime offensively berating others who achieve something.

I understand the feeling and empathize, though I really think FATAL and RaHoWa really belong to the pantheon of RPG horrors. Darren is just a douchebag. Nothing to get too worked up about. Best to just ignore the guy.

I don't know who this darren mcclellan guy is since apparently I don;t get into the games genre he writes for or whatever, but I think that rpg.net's darren maclennan deserves a dishonorable mention for writing a review of wraethu that was so laden with hate speech and incitement to violence it had to be censored as it was illegal in some countries.

I guess some fat kids beat him up in school no now he hates fat people so badly he likes to write about assaulting them.

Quote from: Novastar;3986212) Eric Gibson of d6 Games (I want Septimus in dead tree, dammit!)

Wow, you got this one totally wrong:

1) Eric Gibson owns West End Games (which has sold off most of their properties and he is letting the name die) not D6 games

2) Septimus was available in Dead Tree format.

Might want to check your facts before you post

Quote from: Cylonophile;399458I don't know who this darren mcclellan guy is since apparently I don;t get into the games genre he writes for or whatever, but I think that rpg.net's darren maclennan deserves a dishonorable mention for writing a review of wraethu that was so laden with hate speech and incitement to violence it had to be censored as it was illegal in some countries.

I guess some fat kids beat him up in school no now he hates fat people so badly he likes to write about assaulting them.

That is the Darth McClellan we're talking about--and *he* was the "fat kid" that people beat up and uses his vitriolic writing to somehow justify his meager ego.

On the topic of "hate speech", that term really, really irks me.  I'm a lover of freedom and believe that everyone has the right to say anything they want in any way that they want in any medium that they can afford--and, of course, bear the brunt of any consequences for the saying of it.  I despise the idea that governments try to control the freedom of speech.  

Once you give a government the right to regulate speech (and through speech, thinking processes), you give them the power to do that to anything that they define as "wrong".  Thus, when the winds of societal change blow through (which happens ever few decades), that government now has the power to do the exact opposite of the original intent.

Imagine if tomorrow, "hate speech" was defined as "accepting of homosexuality in any way, shape or form" or if the fundy-churchians took over the government and managed to change society such that any form of gender equality communication was "hate speech"...  It's entirely possible.

Better to make a free society where ideas and thoughts--no matter how tasteful or distasteful--can be shared openly and freely.  

Basically, "therpgsite" vs "the site that shall not be named".

I'd much rather live in the society like "therpgsite".  

The concept of "hate speech" needs to go the way of the dodo...

Quote from: Vellorian;399464On the topic of "hate speech", that term really, really irks me.  I'm a lover of freedom and believe that everyone has the right to say anything they want in any way that they want in any medium that they can afford--and, of course, bear the brunt of any consequences for the saying of it.  I despise the idea that governments try to control the freedom of speech.

They don't even have to regulate speech formally.

Without the stick, they just "regulate speech" by brainwashing, indoctrination, and societal peer pressure.

Quote from: ggroy;399466They don't even have to regulate speech formally.

Without the stick, they just "regulate speech" by brainwashing, indoctrination, and societal peer pressure.

Yeah.  Let's not bog down this discussion with my "radical" thoughts on the ideas of just letting people live their own lives without trying to "guide, direct and control" them.  

Quote from: Vellorian;399468"guide, direct and control" them.  

Television is most effective brainwashing device ever invented.  :rolleyes:

Quote from: ggroy;399469Television is most effective brainwashing device ever invented.  :rolleyes:

Don't you know it doesn't count when corporations do it?  That's just free enterprise at work!

Quote from: J Arcane;399472Don't you know it doesn't count when corporations do it?  That's just free enterprise at work!

I heard a writer espouse something at GenCon that I nearly gagged when I heard.  He said he was writing a story about corporations colonizing Mars and deliberately killing the first colonists to make a profit because, "only corporations would be that heartless, governments take care of their people!"

I nearly laughed my ass off!

I'll make no excuses for corporations--but governments are *far* more sinister and evil things--who only barely rival religious organizations...