I am pretty sure when they say 'all people have the right to be represented' they really mean 'all approved people'.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1055396I am pretty sure when they say 'all people have the right to be represented' they really mean 'all approved people'.

^This^

I don't see white male cis-gendered players being represented because they do not have a space on the Inclusivity Bingo Card, even though they are the majority of TTRPG players.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1055396I am pretty sure when they say 'all people have the right to be represented' they really mean 'all approved people'.

Are MAPs approved? They're on the periphery of the Alternative Sexual Orientation Alphabet, so what then? They clearly have no issue with sexual predation, provided its inflicted on their enemies, but what about children? That's what I would like the self-professed Gatekeepers to answer.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1055404Are MAPs approved? They're on the periphery of the Alternative Sexual Orientation Alphabet, so what then? They clearly have no issue with sexual predation, provided its inflicted on their enemies, but what about children? That's what I would like the self-professed Gatekeepers to answer.

Dafuq is a MAP? Is this some pedophilia normalizing thing?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1055406Dafuq is a MAP? Is this some pedophilia normalizing thing?

I can happily say that the first page of Google results did not show me anything that seems appropriately abhorrent.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1055406Dafuq is a MAP? Is this some pedophilia normalizing thing?

Yep. MAP=Minor Attracted Person. I was trying to prove a point about how unsustainable the ideology is under the slightest scrutiny, but whatever, gaming is what matters! Apologies if I dragged stuff down the sewer.

Anyhoo...Paizo will harm itself doing these crazy things, so let them.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1055408Yep. MAP=Minor Attracted Person. I was trying to prove a point about how unsustainable the ideology is under the slightest scrutiny, but whatever, gaming is what matters! Apologies if I dragged stuff down the sewer.

Anyhoo...Paizo will harm itself doing these crazy things, so let them.

Yeah. I  got into a similar argument at one stage on RPG.net and you can predict the outcome.

As Rath Algethi said if you don't understand the meaning of 'All' to mean 'All of the people we want in the group but not others' then you're not part of the group.

Back to the original topic though, what are people's thoughts on 'SHOWS'? My daughter introduced me to 'The Adventure Zone' podcast, which I've begun avidly listening to whilst driving. Yes there are some 'suspect' moments in terms of D&D 5th ed play rules (as much as I can tell), but not outside of normal DM actions given some of the posts on RPG sites questioning such actions (railroading, deus ex machina moments to save main characters, super fast levelling).

If we look at these through the lens of them being (at least in part) entertainment rather than educational, why shouldn't they be promoted? Just the same way as you can't (really rarely maybe) kill the main character off in the first episode of a TV series or chapter of a book, someone must listen/watch these things and realise that liberties have been taken.

At some stage some of these people watching must RTFM and spot that some license has been taken with the actual play. Won't they at least become part of the 'gaming' group? So its a way into the hobby for some of them.

Quote from: ponta1010;1055410Back to the original topic though, what are people's thoughts on 'SHOWS'?

Dunno if I posted my 2 cents yet. I'm not really interested. I'm more interested in the (pulls out pretentious word) craft of GMing, and I actually find more value in video game commentaries.
Like, I'm currently adapting Super Metroid into a dungeon exploration adventure for Starfinder, so I'm looking up info on SM and how it accomplishes what it does, gameplay wise, and how to adapt that to TTRPGs.

Yes, shows. The only time I really enjoyed watching others game was learning Blades in the Dark (seeing John run really helped) as well as Dusk City Outlaws and watching Invisible Sun and Numenera for teasers/pleasure. I tried watching Critical Role and it felt more like a theater troupe using D&D as its stage. I'm sure Matt's a fun DM, but so am I!

Quote from: tenbones;1055380Are you being facetious?

QuoteAre you serious?

I'll just have to leave you guessing, since the only way I have to convey any information to you is to write some more, and you've shown a singular lack of comprehension.

Quote from: ponta1010;1055410Yes there are some 'suspect' moments in terms of D&D 5th ed play rules (as much as I can tell), but not outside of normal DM actions given some of the posts on RPG sites questioning such actions (railroading, deus ex machina moments to save main characters, super fast levelling).

From what I recall the 5e DMG is silent on railroading and deus ex machina, but does advocate super fast levelling: 1 session to 2nd level (which is pretty much a natural result of the XP table), 1 to 3rd (not so much), 2 to 4th (no) and 2-3 per level thereafter, which would require forced levelling or a game centred around killing high XP/CR monsters caught on their own. The natural progression rate after 3rd level seems to be more like 5 4-hour sessions/level on average, a bit faster 11-14.

WoTC have an idea that players want to go 1-20 within a single University year. The system is only slightly better designed for this than prior ones.

As for the actual play shows, I'm not interested in watching them. I do like Puffin Forest's cartoon accounts of his crappy games in 3 minute animated videos.

Quote from: rawma;1055419I'll just have to leave you guessing, since the only way I have to convey any information to you is to write some more, and you've shown a singular lack of comprehension.

Has he, though? There are a few people here I find remarkably adept at text-only conversations, one of them being tenbones, so I find your assertion disingenuous. He doesn't need me to defend him, but I'm going to nonetheless.

Also, mind addressing your singular lack of consistency? I noticed your selective attachment to the Cause. Interesting.

Quote from: S'mon;1055429From what I recall the 5e DMG is silent on railroading and deus ex machina, but does advocate super fast levelling: 1 session to 2nd level (which is pretty much a natural result of the XP table), 1 to 3rd (not so much), 2 to 4th (no) and 2-3 per level thereafter, which would require forced levelling or a game centred around killing high XP/CR monsters caught on their own. The natural progression rate after 3rd level seems to be more like 5 4-hour sessions/level on average, a bit faster 11-14.

WoTC have an idea that players want to go 1-20 within a single University year. The system is only slightly better designed for this than prior ones.

As for the actual play shows, I'm not interested in watching them. I do like Puffin Forest's cartoon accounts of his crappy games in 3 minute animated videos.

I'm not sure I agree that 5e's levelling is super-fast, at least in terms of game management. (It may well be faster than parallel systems or previous versions). A year to get from L1-20, a level every two sessions, doesn't seem massively problematic to me. People enjoy levelling, give them what they want.

In respect of getting from L1 to L3, I think that is deliberate - good! - design. An L1 character has more than enough moving parts for a novice, the complexity pretty much doubles by L3. I'm glad that WOTC have arranged to ease in new players, yet enabling them to get to the fully-rounded character (stats) at good speed.

I guess I can see how 5e's pace might be an issue in an extended module intended for a narrow level range, but I suspect that's more the case with modules written for previous editions.

All the above said, I haven't used XP for thirty years, I always have used milestone levelling in my home games. DDAL currently uses XP, which is what I am basing my position on, and advancement seemed perfectly fine (if a little too speedy at higher levels), however DDAL is mostly geared towards one-shots. But even DDAL is moving to an advancement checkpoint system as of later this year.


Edit: Here's their new system. (Not without controversy, natch)

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1055413Dunno if I posted my 2 cents yet. I'm not really interested. I'm more interested in the (pulls out pretentious word) craft of GMing, and I actually find more value in video game commentaries.
Like, I'm currently adapting Super Metroid into a dungeon exploration adventure for Starfinder, so I'm looking up info on SM and how it accomplishes what it does, gameplay wise, and how to adapt that to TTRPGs.

I know he gets a somewhat bad rap around here but this is pretty much the reason I read The Angry DM at all.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1055350This seems like a false choice. People were always invited in. Until recently most of them chose not to join because sitting around a table pretending to kill orcs was considered weird.

While it's not a big deal, it's at least mildly annoying to people who spent years minding their own business pursuing their (widely stigmatized) hobby to now find themselves recast as evil elitist gatekeepers who were shutting out the wretched masses who wanted to play. I started gaming in the early 80s. Those of us who kept playing after the initial fad faded away didn't spend our time chasing desperate would be players away from our tables, and it's a B.S. rewriting of history to claim otherwise.

Pretty much exactly what my post said.  Once 'They' (the popular kids et al.) come into a hobby, they take it over and chase the undesirables out.

Quote from: Haffrung;1055356Exactly this. I don't think Millennials realize just how stigmatized geek entertainment and hobbies were in the 80s. If you were older than about 11 and you were into orcs and wizards, Star Wars and Conan, adults and most of your peers thought there was something wrong with you. Parents worried you were socially and emotionally stunted, on the path to being a lifelong virgin. Teachers discouraged you from reading 'trash' fantasy novels. And to girls, you may as have been pushing dump trucks across a sandbox making vroom-vroom noises if you played Dungeons and Dragons. It was socially toxic, to the extent where me and my friends didn't tell anyone else we played once we hit about 13, and my best friend dropped out altogether so the girls he was interested in wouldn't think him an absolute loser.  

That's the cohort that makes up the long-time RPG player base, and who went on to become developers and writers in the 90s and 2000s. We didn't gatekeep the hobby to keep people outside of it. We weren't even in the castle - we were sitting in the trash ditch outside the walls rolling our funny dice while passerby sneered and held their noses. It wouldn't occur to us to exclude a girl from our group, because we would have been astonished any girl wanted to play in the first place. The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.

Thing is, those parents were right.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1055396I am pretty sure when they say 'all people have the right to be represented' they really mean 'all approved people'.

Yeap.  How it's always been.  Anyone who claims we're more civilized is not digging past the surface.