BFRPG Going Woke

PulpHerb · January 19, 2023, 02:41:18 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 19, 2023, 12:35:32 PM
Like the tin says, Gonnerman is changing the pronouns on his game, I mean it's his shit and he can do whatever and I would have exactly zero problem with it if it weren't for the fact that we KNOW it's just a matter of giving the woke an inch before they take control of your shit.

It's okay, the change will be in the 4ed that'll be under CC By SA which means someone could make Advanced Iron Age Fantasy and revert any wokeisms they manage to push into the game.

As for the proof?

It starts in page 162 or 163 but here's a link:

https://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=776&sid=7a682a3b8d698e0a8a1f47792ada3735&start=1620

This is not a surprise. Despite the green listing for wanting "no politics" that resulted when he was accused of being alt-right because Clownfish TV said they played BFRPG over 5e because of WotC woke stance.

He made his "no politics" statement, but also asked Clownfish TV to not mention the game again.

His "no politics" was giving into wokists calling him alt-right because someone liked his game. That was the inch.

Now they want their mile and he's giving in.

PulpHerb · January 19, 2023, 02:48:19 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on January 19, 2023, 01:34:58 PM
I forget what book it was, but it alternated between "he" and "she" each chapter.

I felt so unrepresented!! I could only read every second chapter!!!

The rational and autist solution here is to nuke all pronouns except one, be it "he" "she" "it" or "whatever". Here's your pronoun it's the same as everyone else's, fuck you.

The oddity is there was one brief period where he and she were used in RPGs that made sense and helped make things clearer. In the aughts I had a few books where one (usually she, so pro-woke maybe) was the DM and the other was players. It added a bit more clarity.

Yet in the pronoun frenzy that useful variation is gone.

jhkim · January 19, 2023, 02:50:31 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on January 19, 2023, 01:34:58 PM
The rational and autist solution here is to nuke all pronouns except one, be it "he" "she" "it" or "whatever". Here's your pronoun it's the same as everyone else's, fuck you.

This is phrased like an alternative, but isn't this exactly what Gonnerman is doing?

As I read the thread, Gonnerman wrote BFRPG in 2006 using "he or she" throughout (like original AD&D), and is now switching to singular "they" throughout.

GeekyBugle · January 19, 2023, 02:56:25 PM

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 19, 2023, 02:41:18 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 19, 2023, 12:35:32 PM
Like the tin says, Gonnerman is changing the pronouns on his game, I mean it's his shit and he can do whatever and I would have exactly zero problem with it if it weren't for the fact that we KNOW it's just a matter of giving the woke an inch before they take control of your shit.

It's okay, the change will be in the 4ed that'll be under CC By SA which means someone could make Advanced Iron Age Fantasy and revert any wokeisms they manage to push into the game.

As for the proof?

It starts in page 162 or 163 but here's a link:

https://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=776&sid=7a682a3b8d698e0a8a1f47792ada3735&start=1620

This is not a surprise. Despite the green listing for wanting "no politics" that resulted when he was accused of being alt-right because Clownfish TV said they played BFRPG over 5e because of WotC woke stance.

He made his "no politics" statement, but also asked Clownfish TV to not mention the game again.

His "no politics" was giving into wokists calling him alt-right because someone liked his game. That was the inch.

Now they want their mile and he's giving in.

Yep, that's true, still he kinda sorta apologized latter to Kneon, which made me think MAYBE there was hope for him...

How wrong was I.

PulpHerb · January 19, 2023, 02:58:31 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 19, 2023, 02:56:25 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on January 19, 2023, 02:41:18 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 19, 2023, 12:35:32 PM
Like the tin says, Gonnerman is changing the pronouns on his game, I mean it's his shit and he can do whatever and I would have exactly zero problem with it if it weren't for the fact that we KNOW it's just a matter of giving the woke an inch before they take control of your shit.

It's okay, the change will be in the 4ed that'll be under CC By SA which means someone could make Advanced Iron Age Fantasy and revert any wokeisms they manage to push into the game.

As for the proof?

It starts in page 162 or 163 but here's a link:

https://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=776&sid=7a682a3b8d698e0a8a1f47792ada3735&start=1620

This is not a surprise. Despite the green listing for wanting "no politics" that resulted when he was accused of being alt-right because Clownfish TV said they played BFRPG over 5e because of WotC woke stance.

He made his "no politics" statement, but also asked Clownfish TV to not mention the game again.

His "no politics" was giving into wokists calling him alt-right because someone liked his game. That was the inch.

Now they want their mile and he's giving in.

Yep, that's true, still he kinda sorta apologized latter to Kneon, which made me think MAYBE there was hope for him...

How wrong was I.

The apology was why I didn't suggest he be moved to yellow more than once.

Now we know what it was worth.

rytrasmi · January 19, 2023, 02:59:33 PM

Quote from: jhkim on January 19, 2023, 02:50:31 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on January 19, 2023, 01:34:58 PM
The rational and autist solution here is to nuke all pronouns except one, be it "he" "she" "it" or "whatever". Here's your pronoun it's the same as everyone else's, fuck you.

This is phrased like an alternative, but isn't this exactly what Gonnerman is doing?

As I read the thread, Gonnerman wrote BFRPG in 2006 using "he or she" throughout (like original AD&D), and is now switching to singular "they" throughout.

It all means the same thing so why switch? Mayhaps to signal a virtue?

It's the same representation psychology that caused this nonsense:
LGB
LGBT
LGBTQ
LGBTQ2S
LGBTQ2S+

Everyone gets a letter and everyone gets a pronoun! And there's no room for actual substance!

GeekyBugle · January 19, 2023, 02:59:38 PM

Quote from: jhkim on January 19, 2023, 02:50:31 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on January 19, 2023, 01:34:58 PM
The rational and autist solution here is to nuke all pronouns except one, be it "he" "she" "it" or "whatever". Here's your pronoun it's the same as everyone else's, fuck you.

This is phrased like an alternative, but isn't this exactly what Gonnerman is doing?

As I read the thread, Gonnerman wrote BFRPG in 2006 using "he or she" throughout (like original AD&D), and is now switching to singular "they" throughout.

IF it was just about the use of one pronoun over the other then YOU might be right, but as usual you either don't understand (I doubt it) or are a disingenuous twat trying to obfuscate.

It's WHY he's doing it that matters even more than WHAT he's doing.

Let me explain it to you:

He's making the change because 2 Sparkle Trolls complained and then one rational (probably right wing?) person said it was activism creeping in.

So he's doing it to demonstrate he's a virtuous person and is on the right side of history.

GeekyBugle · January 19, 2023, 03:01:01 PM

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 19, 2023, 02:58:31 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 19, 2023, 02:56:25 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on January 19, 2023, 02:41:18 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 19, 2023, 12:35:32 PM
Like the tin says, Gonnerman is changing the pronouns on his game, I mean it's his shit and he can do whatever and I would have exactly zero problem with it if it weren't for the fact that we KNOW it's just a matter of giving the woke an inch before they take control of your shit.

It's okay, the change will be in the 4ed that'll be under CC By SA which means someone could make Advanced Iron Age Fantasy and revert any wokeisms they manage to push into the game.

As for the proof?

It starts in page 162 or 163 but here's a link:

https://basicfantasy.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=776&sid=7a682a3b8d698e0a8a1f47792ada3735&start=1620

This is not a surprise. Despite the green listing for wanting "no politics" that resulted when he was accused of being alt-right because Clownfish TV said they played BFRPG over 5e because of WotC woke stance.

He made his "no politics" statement, but also asked Clownfish TV to not mention the game again.

His "no politics" was giving into wokists calling him alt-right because someone liked his game. That was the inch.

Now they want their mile and he's giving in.

Yep, that's true, still he kinda sorta apologized latter to Kneon, which made me think MAYBE there was hope for him...

How wrong was I.

The apology was why I didn't suggest he be moved to yellow more than once.

Now we know what it was worth.

Probably to avoid his right wing base from abandoning him?

In any case all 3 actions show a complete and total lack of spine.

migo · January 19, 2023, 04:59:23 PM

Replacing 'he or she' with 'they' is a good change. It's the right pronoun to use when the gender is indeterminate (not 'he'), unless you're distinguishing between GM and player using he for one and she for the other.

But this shows that he himself has been woke for a long time:

QuoteI'm guessing you're fortunate enough to be straight. I am too, but I have too many friends who aren't so "fortunate" (not denigrating them by the use of that word, but pointing out the unfairness of the position) and I take their feelings seriously. Being kind is one of the most important things a human can do for another human.

That's identity politics, and there's never anything good about it. It's at best neutral if he isn't outright hostile to non-progressives.

Brad · January 19, 2023, 05:17:24 PM

Quote from: migo on January 19, 2023, 04:59:23 PM
Replacing 'he or she' with 'they' is a good change. It's the right pronoun to use when the gender is indeterminate (not 'he'), unless you're distinguishing between GM and player using he for one and she for the other.

"He" is literally "gender neutral" when you don't know the sex of a subject...where the fuck did you learn English?

Chris24601 · January 19, 2023, 05:19:57 PM

Quote from: migo on January 19, 2023, 04:59:23 PM
Replacing 'he or she' with 'they' is a good change. It's the right pronoun to use when the gender is indeterminate (not 'he'), unless you're distinguishing between GM and player using he for one and she for the other.

Prior to 2020, formal writing in English was to use "he" for indeterminate third-person singular. "They" was in use, but was considered informal or colloquial. Only with the rise of woke in the last two years has the writing standard been changed.

migo · January 19, 2023, 05:26:48 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 19, 2023, 05:19:57 PM
Quote from: migo on January 19, 2023, 04:59:23 PM
Replacing 'he or she' with 'they' is a good change. It's the right pronoun to use when the gender is indeterminate (not 'he'), unless you're distinguishing between GM and player using he for one and she for the other.
Prior to 2020, formal writing in English was to use "he" for indeterminate third-person singular. "They" was in use, but was considered informal or colloquial. Only with the rise of woke in the last two years has the writing standard been changed.

Singular they has been in use in English going back to the 14th century. That pre-dates Shakespeare, and Shakespeare himself - the father of modern English - used singular they. The people complaining about it have never been right. And aside from that, using 'he' in place of 'they' for indeterminate gender is just stupid. It's illogical. Also, generally ignorant - if you really object to the use of singular they, you should be like a Quaker and stop using singular you.

migo · January 19, 2023, 05:29:59 PM

Quote from: Brad on January 19, 2023, 05:17:24 PM
Quote from: migo on January 19, 2023, 04:59:23 PM
Replacing 'he or she' with 'they' is a good change. It's the right pronoun to use when the gender is indeterminate (not 'he'), unless you're distinguishing between GM and player using he for one and she for the other.

"He" is literally "gender neutral" when you don't know the sex of a subject...where the fuck did you learn English?

It is not. English is a language that uses natural gender and not grammatical gender. It would be acceptable to use in French or German depending on what the antecedent noun is, but not in English. If you want to be charitable to the people claiming that 'he' is gender neutral, they're confusing French, which collapsed the neutral form in with the masculine (which is why there are more masculine nouns in French than feminine), and thus uses 'il' in a gender neutral fashion, with English. English never got rid of the neutral form, so there has never been a justification to follow suit with French.

Brad · January 19, 2023, 05:38:43 PM

Quote from: migo on January 19, 2023, 05:29:59 PM
It is not.

Read an English book, please. Thanks.

jeff37923 · January 19, 2023, 05:44:11 PM

Quote from: Brad on January 19, 2023, 05:38:43 PM
Quote from: migo on January 19, 2023, 05:29:59 PM
It is not.

Read an English book, please. Thanks.

You'll have to forgive him. He's from Yuggoth.