Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 23, 2023, 09:20:05 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 22, 2023, 09:07:31 PMExactly, and it's frustrating when some chucklehead comes along and tries to fit a square TTRPG peg into a round video game hole.

Except WotC has already had success converting M:TG into a digital game with Arena which has been a huge money maker for them. And Gloomhaven also has been a huge success (both as a boardgame and online) and it is basically a DM-less RPG. It looks to me like there is a market for a hybrid RPG/video game.

Yes, but the hardcopy versions of Gloomhaven and Magic still exist and are popular.

WOTC could make a digital hybrid thingamajoo of D&D, and not have to touch the OGL. But they are, because they want to replace TTD&D, not supplement it.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 24, 2023, 06:21:16 AMYes, but the hardcopy versions of Gloomhaven and Magic still exist and are popular.

WOTC could make a digital hybrid thingamajoo of D&D, and not have to touch the OGL. But they are, because they want to replace TTD&D, not supplement it.

Deauthorizing the OGL is necessary for Hasbro to regain control of their D&D IP. This is equally true for their tabletop version as well as any potential VTT version.

I'm just surprised that Hasbro didn't do the deauthorization process separately from rolling out the VTT and a new game version.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 24, 2023, 09:05:49 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 24, 2023, 06:21:16 AMYes, but the hardcopy versions of Gloomhaven and Magic still exist and are popular.

WOTC could make a digital hybrid thingamajoo of D&D, and not have to touch the OGL. But they are, because they want to replace TTD&D, not supplement it.

Deauthorizing the OGL is necessary for Hasbro to regain control of their D&D IP. This is equally true for their tabletop version as well as any potential VTT version.

I'm just surprised that Hasbro didn't do the deauthorization process separately from rolling out the VTT and a new game version.

You keep saying this, they NEVER lost control of their IP, the OGL explicilty says they have it and it even grants them way more "copyright" than the law.

You know what THEY consider their IP? The stuff they could and did Trademark.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 24, 2023, 11:49:01 AM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 24, 2023, 09:05:49 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 24, 2023, 06:21:16 AMYes, but the hardcopy versions of Gloomhaven and Magic still exist and are popular.

WOTC could make a digital hybrid thingamajoo of D&D, and not have to touch the OGL. But they are, because they want to replace TTD&D, not supplement it.

Deauthorizing the OGL is necessary for Hasbro to regain control of their D&D IP. This is equally true for their tabletop version as well as any potential VTT version.

I'm just surprised that Hasbro didn't do the deauthorization process separately from rolling out the VTT and a new game version.

You keep saying this, they NEVER lost control of their IP, the OGL explicilty says they have it and it even grants them way more "copyright" than the law.

You know what THEY consider their IP? The stuff they could and did Trademark.

This is just being pedantic on your part.

By "reclaim their IP" what the non-lawyers colloquially mean is "eliminate the open license that allows third parties to use entire concept stacks in their entirety."

The main thing they're hoping to prevent is the ability of viable VTT modules using elements close enough to their IP to make an alternate VTT competitive. They think if VTT's have to choose between having D&D available on their system and animated magic missiles they can get gamers (and remember tabletop and video gamers are all the same to the head of WotC's digital team) to play on the platform that offers both together.

A big part of it is that the people behind these decisions really don't understand the market they're trying to capture... they're just importing their experiences from XBox and Farmville gatcha games with the assumption that a gamer is a gamer is a gamer and that the exact same models of revenue capture will work on this group of gamers.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 23, 2023, 09:28:49 AM

Quote from: Effete on January 23, 2023, 12:37:37 AMMore specifically they don't understand the customer. TT gamers who are passionate about the industry WANT to create their own content.

Gamers that want to create their own content are not the primary customers of Hasbro. This has been true since the beginning. The entire RPG industry is built upon selling rules, settings, and adventures. Three things that players could create themselves.

Trying to build a business selling products to people that don't need them will never be a success. I can't blame Hasbro for marketing their products to the people that actually purchase products.

Of course. I'm not blaming them for trying to make money either. I said as much in another post. If this turns into a success for them, great! No skin off my back since I won't be a customer.

But you cut half my post off, removing the context, and go off on a tangent. My point wasn't that gamers don't want easily referencable material, it was that they want the ability to tweek it to their liking. WotC new business model seems to impose strict rules-adherence and a paywall to add custom content. Nothing wrong with that, but it won't capture the TT gamer... it's going for the Cheeto-fingered video gamer market. Because that's exactly what it would be: a video game.

Quote from: Opaopajr on January 22, 2023, 07:56:21 PMlifestyle toasters, silicone rubber scrapers, etc.

You'll have to pry my matching Elminster toaster & Drizzt rubber scraper from my cold dead hands!!

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 23, 2023, 12:20:29 PMI've got a whole bunch of tools for the convenience of new GMs already in place.

Those are valuable for experienced GMs as well.

Particularly in how to GM your game instead of any generic RPG.

I personally enjoy game-specific GM advice because Paranoia isn't RuneQuest which isn't Cthulhu which isn't Traveller and although all 4 are RPGs and there's lots of baseline advice for GMing that covers all 4, there's a deep need for specific GM tools and advice on how to shine when running a specific RPG or setting.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 23, 2023, 01:12:06 AMAs for how its relevant: I would not suggest going the opposed lawsuit direction. If Wizards is willing to burn hundreds of millions on pissing contests, it won't blink twice on spending ones of millions on a lawsuit.

Agreed...although how do we know that WotC/Hasbro has spent hundreds of millions? That's a monstrous amount of cash for a tiny pond industry.

Also, if they did spend that money on their magical AI VTT fantasy metaverse, why worry about the OGL 1.0 because even Paizo isn't capable of spending that kind of money to horn in on their VTT dominance?

Quote from: Spinachcat on January 25, 2023, 03:25:26 AM

Quote from: Opaopajr on January 22, 2023, 07:56:21 PMlifestyle toasters, silicone rubber scrapers, etc.

You'll have to pry my matching Elminster toaster & Drizzt rubber scraper from my cold dead hands!!

If the Oven Mitts of Vecna are wrong, I don't want to be right.

Quote from: Spinachcat on January 25, 2023, 03:40:00 AM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 23, 2023, 01:12:06 AMAs for how its relevant: I would not suggest going the opposed lawsuit direction. If Wizards is willing to burn hundreds of millions on pissing contests, it won't blink twice on spending ones of millions on a lawsuit.

Agreed...although how do we know that WotC/Hasbro has spent hundreds of millions? That's a monstrous amount of cash for a tiny pond industry.

WotC has already spent ~$150 millions to buy D&D Beyond - allegedly just to bury it. Then, if the insider info given to D&D Shorts is to be believed, WotC already spent hundreds of millions to prop up their digital initiative. Even if this info is incorrect, they already burned up a year of earnings to bury D&D Beyond - pissing off of their customers BIG TIME as a side effect.

Quote from: Spinachcat on January 25, 2023, 03:40:00 AM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 23, 2023, 01:12:06 AMAs for how its relevant: I would not suggest going the opposed lawsuit direction. If Wizards is willing to burn hundreds of millions on pissing contests, it won't blink twice on spending ones of millions on a lawsuit.

Agreed...although how do we know that WotC/Hasbro has spent hundreds of millions? That's a monstrous amount of cash for a tiny pond industry.

Also, if they did spend that money on their magical AI VTT fantasy metaverse, why worry about the OGL 1.0 because even Paizo isn't capable of spending that kind of money to horn in on their VTT dominance?

As mentioned, DnDBeyond was $150 million.

Per the leaks, they think they can grow their VTT to be a $500 million per year property (which sounds a lot like a clueless exec just took their $100-150 million profits and multiplied it by Cynthia Williams' "only 20% of the player base buys things" to arrive at a figure... but I never underestimate the stupidity of execs who are chasing money).

The biggest threat they see is the ability of third parties to make better content than they do. So the new OGL and VTT policy are all about preemptively shutting down competition so if you want to game at all it has to be on the gatcha game VTT.

It's basically the same tactic all the big boys (Google, Microsoft) use of buying out or lawfaring any potential small competitor into oblivion before their better product can get any traction.

Remember when WotC mocked the idea of an MMO being a better experience than face to face play? Pepperidge Farms remembers;

Would be interesting if Shorts didnt fake information for ratings.