So, of all the revisitings and reimaginings of Dungeons & Dragons before 2e (IOW, for most practical purposes, the OSR movement) what single rule change do you like or hate the most? If not a change, what addition? Hell, what omission?
For me, it was Lamentations of the Flame Princess removing To Hit bonus by level for everyone EXCEPT Fighters. It was such a simple change that fixed two long running problems:
1. Heavy armor stayed extremely valuable as you leveled up without the need of magic.
2. Fighters instantly became as valuable as other classes as you leveled up.
I think it was the simplicity with which those two old bugbears were slain that left the strong impression on me.
But nevermind what I thought. Sticking with OSR games, which changes did you love or loathe?
The optional Single Saving Throw; in White Box, and White Box - Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game.
Quote from: Razor 007 on December 30, 2020, 06:13:55 PM
The optional Single Saving Throw; in White Box, and White Box - Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game.
I don't know that one.
Tell me about it, if you don't mind?
IIRC it gives the option of having a single saving throw for all categories that progress differently based on class.
Quote from: Two Crows on December 30, 2020, 03:50:24 PM
So, of all the revisitings and reimaginings of Dungeons & Dragons before 2e (IOW, for most practical purposes, the OSR movement) what single rule change do you like or hate the most? If not a change, what addition? Hell, what omission?
For me, it was Lamentations of the Flame Princess removing To Hit bonus by level for everyone EXCEPT Fighters. It was such a simple change that fixed two long running problems:
1. Heavy armor stayed extremely valuable as you leveled up without the need of magic.
2. Fighters instantly became as valuable as other classes as you leveled up.
I think it was the simplicity with which those two old bugbears were slain that left the strong impression on me.
But nevermind what I thought. Sticking with OSR games, which changes did you love or loathe?
How did that change make those two things happen?
Quote from: Two Crows on December 30, 2020, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: Razor 007 on December 30, 2020, 06:13:55 PM
The optional Single Saving Throw; in White Box, and White Box - Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game.
I don't know that one.
Tell me about it, if you don't mind?
Instead of say, a 3rd Level Fighter having several different saving throws vs various challenges; a 3rd Level Fighter would have a single saving throw vs all challenges. The trade off is, the single saving throw is more of an average of saving throws; so some saves benefit, while others suffer.
Each class is assigned a single saving throw, at each level. The saving throw improves, I think every other level? I'm not at home, at the moment....
Do the saves improve at different rates for each class, or is it standardized for all of them?
I never had a OD&D set, but I remember the only thing Red Box Halflings had going were their monstrously good saves.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on December 30, 2020, 07:09:54 PM
How did that change make those two things happen?
A 1st level Cleric and a 1st level Fighter would both need a 16 To-Hit a squad of guards at AC 3 (fairly heavy armor).
At 9th level, the Cleric still needs a 16. The armor is just as good as it always has been.
The Fighter, OTOH, now only needs an 8 To-Hit those same guards. Being the only class receiving an increasing To-Hit modifier works as a unique class ability.
The Cleric has access to powerful divine magic, and more HP than it had at 1st level, but won't be able to dispatch the room via melee without some trouble.
At the same time, this makes the inability to wear armor a more pronounced disadvantage, because the armor (the lower AC) is worth a lot more.
Don't forget in the S&W single save system, certain classes get a bonus ti certain types of saves. E.g. Fighters get a +1 to Poison and Death saves.
The single save *is* one of my top picks- But I'm going to have to ponder on this topic a bit.
Quote from: Two Crows on December 30, 2020, 07:35:04 PM
Do the saves improve at different rates for each class, or is it standardized for all of them?
I never had a OD&D set, but I remember the only thing Red Box Halflings had going were their monstrously good saves.
The rate of improvement for the single save is pretty much a constant. Out of the 4 core classes; 2 classes start out with a single save of "X", and the other 2 start out at "X+1", per se.
I really, really like DCC'S mighty deeds of arms from DCC it makes Fighters actually feel like they're better at fighting than anyone else.
Quote from: Slambo on December 31, 2020, 12:40:59 AM
I really, really like DCC'S mighty deeds of arms from DCC it makes Fighters actually feel like they're better at fighting than anyone else.
Me too. I love it so much that I'm using it as the basis for Kung Fu Classics.
Target20 is a great idea IMO:
http://www.oedgames.com/target20/
Single saving throws, mighty deeds of arms... I love them too.
The thing with the LoftFP fighter... Well... it makes classes a lot more specialized; a high-level wizard has no chance while swinging an ordinary sword (except that he can take a lot of punishment for some reason).
I'm a bit on the fence about this one. In my own game, a fighter adds his level to attacks, wizard adds 1/3 of his level.
While we are talking DCCRPG- and yes I agree about Mighty Deeds- I've always beefed up my O/TSR FIghters and have stolen that too on occasion-
BUT- Even better
I absolutely hate the idea of healing potions and cure spells overall in D&D and Clerics healing everyone left and right and people popping back up after going down because someone gave them a heal potion. DCC's Cleric healing system is way up near the top for me- It makes sense fictionally, is never a certain thing, AND mechanically frees up Clerics to have a better selection of spells.
Target 20 is a good one, and so is stone-based encumbrance from the same source (Delta's Hotspot). Also agree with the single save of S&W.
The whole magic system in DCC is very good IMO. Good have been simpler, but that's just me.
Quote from: Pat on December 31, 2020, 01:15:32 PM
Target 20 is a good one, and so is stone-based encumbrance from the same source (Delta's Hotspot). Also agree with the single save of S&W.
First I've heard of Delta (looks cool), but I'm definitely in agreement with stone-based encumbrance, with the caveat that a "stone" of encumbrance is not exactly the same as a "stone" in weight, since the latter has no account for bulk or form. For me, 1 stone of encumbrance = 1 stone of weight
for a limp body (i.e. your character, after getting poisoned). Items that are more compact or stiffer might be weightier for the same "stone" of encumbrance.
Anyhow, I've been using this system in my OSR homebrew for about 3 years now, and I find it strikes a really nice balance between resource tracking and nitpicking.
I also love the chaotic nature of spellcasting in DCC. Even low level Wizards can be scary (just depends on how those dice roll).
Overall, DCC & HackMaster 4e are my two OSR favorites.
(Yeah, I consider 4e to be an OSR game)