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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Hairfoot on August 21, 2009, 10:18:12 PM

Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Hairfoot on August 21, 2009, 10:18:12 PM
Enough gaming industry esoteria.  What's the best weapon for a fantasy adventurer to carry?

I'm going with the hand axe or battle axe.  It's a weapon, a tool for chopping, a hammer, a wedge, a lever, a stick to poke things with, and it's durable and resistant to breakage.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: The Worid on August 21, 2009, 10:26:30 PM
The halberd is a superb weapon. Does pretty much anything the axe can do, but it has more reach.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: VectorSigma on August 21, 2009, 10:30:45 PM
When you put it that way, Hairfoot, I have a hard time arguing with the practicality of the hand axe.

Depending on setting, of course, good luck finding a magic one, though.

A staff (aka the less-than-ten-foot-pole) might come in second by those criteria.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Hairfoot on August 21, 2009, 10:34:25 PM
Halberds require two hands to use, I believe.  That swings my opinion more in favour of the axe.

As for magic axes, what's even better is a magic axe head.  Small and easily lost in an ancient ruin for adventurers to pillage, and it can be attached to anything.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: jeff37923 on August 21, 2009, 10:38:15 PM
Quote from: Hairfoot;322593Enough gaming industry esoteria.  What's the best weapon for a fantasy adventurer to carry?

I'm going with the hand axe or battle axe.  It's a weapon, a tool for chopping, a hammer, a wedge, a lever, a stick to poke things with, and it's durable and resistant to breakage.

I would say the dagger, for similar reasons. It is a weapon, a tool for skinning and cleaning fish and game, also a hammer, a wedge, lash it to a stick and you have a spear, if it can be fixed beneath a musket you have a bayonet, it can be concealed (which a hand axe can not easily), it can be thrown, it can used as a climbing piton, it can also pin curtains or tapestries back, it can be used to carve wood, it can be used to fashion other tools or weapons out of soft materials (like wood), and best of all - you can look dashing while picking your teeth with a dagger.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: VectorSigma on August 21, 2009, 10:39:13 PM
Can I knap the axe-head to make magic arrowheads?
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: jeff37923 on August 21, 2009, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: VectorSigma;322605Can I knap the axe-head to make magic arrowheads?

Depending on your character's skills and background, I'd probably allow that in a game I ran.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Halfjack on August 21, 2009, 10:46:45 PM
I'm onside with the axe provided there's a good pick on the back.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: VectorSigma on August 21, 2009, 10:50:29 PM
I think we've unwittingly generated a truism here: if it's a tool/weapon we used 5000 years ago, and still use today essentially unchanged, then it's a pretty goddamn good tool/weapon.

Also in the top ten (although not used today): if I could have an atlatl that doubled as a nice skull-crunching club, I'd be golden.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Imp on August 21, 2009, 11:19:39 PM
Flaming sword. Provided you could turn it on and off. You said fantasy adventurer!

Weapon, good for some chopping, fire at your command, light source, and unambiguous "don't fuck with me" signal to peasantry and animal-type problems.

Yeah, a GM might make the tiger pounce anyway, but realistically, that tiger's gonna turn his ass around.

Restricted to mundane weapons? I'd probably go with some kind of solid cut-and-thrust short sword. Can do some of the things a hand axe can do, some of the things a dagger can do, and it could score enough of a stab wound to kill larger adversaries than either.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Xanther on August 21, 2009, 11:25:36 PM
Good one Imp.  But why not the flaming axe?  All the flame, all the axe.  A magical one that returns after throwing would be best.

For mundane weapons I like the spear, reach and penetration, with speed.  You can throw it in an emergency. You can use the back end to subdue.  It can be a backup 6' pole, pole to climb or vault with, handy to use as a makeshift door bar, and you can hold it out to help a friend.
If you can remove the spear head and use it as a dagger even better.

My second choice is surely the axe.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Hairfoot on August 22, 2009, 01:02:04 AM
The axe's lack of stabbiness is its real drawback, but game mechanics rarely take that into consideration.

I like the atlatl club idea.  Ranged weapons and metatarsals are why we're at the top of the food chain.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: aramis on August 22, 2009, 01:02:27 AM
Quote from: Xanther;322634Good one Imp.  But why not the flaming axe?  All the flame, all the axe.  A magical one that returns after throwing would be best.
Because most axes have wooden hafts...
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Imp on August 22, 2009, 02:09:54 AM
Well I suppose we could start listing off item properties (+2 flaming, returning, vampiric throwing axe with extensible handle and cheese grater) but I just thought I'd throw one of the archetypical fantasy weapons into the mix.

(Presumably a flaming axe has at least a partially metal haft or is protected from uselessness by magical means...)
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: lastspartacus on August 22, 2009, 03:39:03 AM
A rapier.  pointless in practicality, but you get more gold thrown at you by adoring peasants during your outlandishly choreographed duels, and a nice crit range to boot!

This may belong in a thread of its own, but as a side question, what game system has the most in depth representation of different weapons?
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Hairfoot on August 22, 2009, 03:48:13 AM
Quote from: lastspartacus;322683This may belong in a thread of its own, but as a side question, what game system has the most in depth representation of different weapons?
Rolemaster and the Thousand and One Arabian Tables.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: lastspartacus on August 22, 2009, 03:52:41 AM
I ask because it occurred to me that I do not remember seeing anything in weapon functionality besides amount of damage and small bonuses like reach weapons, and figured surely someone had thought to try a more complex system.

I didn't find anything on the arabian tables, is it rolemaster, game from the early 80's?  Worth a look?
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Hairfoot on August 22, 2009, 04:14:46 AM
Quote from: lastspartacus;322688I didn't find anything on the arabian tables, is it rolemaster, game from the early 80's?  Worth a look?
That was feeble sarcasm on my part.  Rolemaster has an extensive system of tables and percentiles which rate individual weapons against armour types and tries to account for things like the tin-opener qualities of polearms and the cushioning effects of some armours against blunt weapons.

Complicated and time consuming, but verisimilitudinous.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: lastspartacus on August 22, 2009, 04:25:17 AM
that sounds very interesting!  But I should learn from my own mistakes and realize that overcomplication leads to failure and frustration...hey that rhymed.

If only there were some middle ground!


edit:  there free tables of that anywhere.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Hairfoot on August 22, 2009, 04:38:43 AM
Quote from: lastspartacus;322693edit:  there free tables of that anywhere.
Not that I know of.  Not legal, anyway.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Kord's Boon on August 22, 2009, 08:55:31 AM
Quote from: Imp;322630Flaming sword. Provided you could turn it on and off. You said fantasy adventurer!

Good thinking, it's a big 'Fuck You' to thermodynamics, which makes it fantastic for all kinds of things. I recall using a flaming sword one of my characters found as a heating element for our stronghold's water supply.

Didn't really do much more with it, figured a self-pumping regenerative Rankine cycle might cause rocks to fall.

Dagger and hands axe otherwise, need to shave with something.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Danger on August 22, 2009, 10:20:45 AM
Shovel.

You can beat people with it, you can chop 'em up too if you do it right (and have enough time; you'd be best just to beat them to death first) and in the end, you can bury the evidence with it.

Fun times.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Aos on August 22, 2009, 10:24:17 AM
T&A.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: lastspartacus on August 22, 2009, 12:51:10 PM
That guy in Mystery Men based his entire super hero career on shovel wielding, after all.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Xenon on August 22, 2009, 08:55:05 PM
right now, im leaning towards a warhammer myself. you have a hammer, a pick, and a thrusting point. maybe get an extending handle (magic or otherwise) to double as a bec de corbin. and using a polearm one handed is a question of strength- if your strong enough you can one-hand a lot of things.

the truth of the matter is, the best weapon depends on how you need to use it. you have to consider the reach, as well as what your using it against. a sword is useless in some situations, like fighting skeletons. the sword is great for fighting people with swords.

now if we are going with magic weapons? why not artifact weapons. Mjolnir, Excalibur, Greyswandir, or the like. the kind of weapon that is the stuff of legend.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Fifth Element on August 22, 2009, 11:38:52 PM
Glaive-guisarme-voulge, obviously. It's at least three weapons rolled into one! If not more!
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Abaddon on August 22, 2009, 11:40:16 PM
The best weapon is wit
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: flyingmice on August 23, 2009, 01:35:31 AM
Quote from: Hairfoot;322593Enough gaming industry esoteria.  What's the best weapon for a fantasy adventurer to carry?

I'm going with the hand axe or battle axe.  It's a weapon, a tool for chopping, a hammer, a wedge, a lever, a stick to poke things with, and it's durable and resistant to breakage.

A shoulder-launched thermonuclear missile.

-clash
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Kyle Aaron on August 23, 2009, 02:03:39 AM
Much may be said for the humble seax,

(http://bp1.blogger.com/_iFy2ki8PliM/SD1K9KBGXpI/AAAAAAAABmc/3JoEq-lc4gk/s320/DSC00624.JPG)

the short blade of the Saxons and Vikings, which might be but three inches long, or as much as thirty, a full short-sword. Effective in its time when only rich men owned metal armour, cheap enough for even poor men to own, durable enough to be handed from father to son.

Its equal is the staff,

(http://shrewfaire.com/Media/Shots/Quarterstaff_400x72.jpg)

which even the poorest and humblest might own and master. While no defence against well-armed and armoured men, it was sufficient against common bandits and drunken friends, and unlike blades could be carried everywhere, even in the presence of nobles. Even today when the tiniest nail file is prohibited from aircraft, a man may take a solid cane with him.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: lastspartacus on August 23, 2009, 02:08:26 AM
I find the staff to be superior to the sword.  There is a writing of Robin Hood I read, where before dueling Little John, Robin asks to cut down a staff to use, as he is disadvantaged with merely a sword.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Nightfall on August 23, 2009, 02:53:06 AM
Holy Avenger.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Tetsubo on August 23, 2009, 03:52:26 AM
I'd have to go with the knife. The most basic tool in the hominid toolbox. There has been some for of sharp, hand held blade for the past 2 million+ years. In a fantasy or modern setting I would choose a single edged, fixed blade knife with around a 4" blade. Second choice would be a hand axe. Though they are *far* more dangerous to the user than a knife or a saw. If you aren't trained in the proper use of an axe, don't use one. With either a knife or a hand axe I can make my third choice, a staff. :)
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: aramis on August 23, 2009, 04:35:09 AM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;322981Even today when the tiniest nail file is prohibited from aircraft, a man may take a solid cane with him.

They took me mum's cane at the gate.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Tetsubo on August 23, 2009, 04:40:51 AM
Quote from: aramis;323012They took me mum's cane at the gate.

I may well need to use a cane in the future. I have a bum knee that shows no sign of ever improving. I even have two canes awaiting that need. If an airline attempted to take my cane from me, which I needed to walk I would give them two options: Check my cane and carry me to my seat and to the rest room as needed OR refund my money completely, in cash, on the spot.

*Anything* can be turned into a weapon. Ask any prison guard. Security theater benefits no one and protects nothing.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Premier on August 23, 2009, 10:46:42 AM
There's no such thing as a "best weapon". Each is a tool designed to be optimal in a specific sort of warfare, against a specific sort of opposition, within the specific technological constraints of the time and place. Saying that one is uniformly better than all others is just as absurd as saying that a French key is the best tool all around, even when what you want to do is tighten a screw or cut a wire.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Aos on August 23, 2009, 11:18:20 AM
Quote from: Tetsubo;323014I may well need to use a cane in the future. I have a bum knee that shows no sign of ever improving. I even have two canes awaiting that need. If an airline attempted to take my cane from me, which I needed to walk I would give them two options: Check my cane and carry me to my seat and to the rest room as needed OR refund my money completely, in cash, on the spot.

*Anything* can be turned into a weapon. Ask any prison guard. Security theater benefits no one and protects nothing.


I fly a lot, and I can tell you that giving "choices" like this to the airline would end with you out the cost of your plane ticket and looking for a cab home. At the airport, normal folks don't have even the illusion of a shred of power.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Tetsubo on August 23, 2009, 05:37:52 PM
Quote from: Aos;323060I fly a lot, and I can tell you that giving "choices" like this to the airline would end with you out the cost of your plane ticket and looking for a cab home. At the airport, normal folks don't have even the illusion of a shred of power.

Which is why I do not fly and will not fly until such a time that the airlines cease to treat their paying customers like criminals. Planes are glorified buses.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Tetsubo on August 23, 2009, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: Premier;323051There's no such thing as a "best weapon". Each is a tool designed to be optimal in a specific sort of warfare, against a specific sort of opposition, within the specific technological constraints of the time and place. Saying that one is uniformly better than all others is just as absurd as saying that a French key is the best tool all around, even when what you want to do is tighten a screw or cut a wire.

But certain designs have evolved time and time again for a reason, they work. The spear and axe come to mind. Show me a metal using culture that didn't use them prior to gunpowder.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Aos on August 23, 2009, 06:02:02 PM
Quote from: Tetsubo;323197Which is why I do not fly and will not fly until such a time that the airlines cease to treat their paying customers like criminals. Planes are glorified buses.

That time will never come. Ever. The law has more to do with it that the airlines. When you enter the airport you are essentially guilty until proven innocent.  It sucks, but they've got all the planes.
I tried to catch a bus for Europe; it didn't work out so well.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: The Shaman on August 23, 2009, 06:20:02 PM
AK-47.

Hey, you have your fantasy realm, I have mine.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Angry_Douchebag on August 23, 2009, 06:26:13 PM
The Whip.

A good, 10-foot long whip can serve a great variety of uses.

With a whip you can:

System Dependent:
*  Inflict lethal damage
*  Inflict non-lethal damage
*  Disarm
*  Entangle
*  Trip

Cinematic Acts:
*  Extinguish candles
*  Swing across chasms
*  Catch a falling mulligan
*  Trigger a known trap at a distance

As a ten foot length of rope:
*  Bind a foe
*  Bind your PC's half-orc girlfriend for some light bondage play
*  Hoist a companion up a steep slope
*  Lower a lantern into an unlit pit/tunnel
*  Interrogate a prisoner
*  Climb a tree lumberjack style
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: jibbajibba on August 23, 2009, 07:17:50 PM
Ray Mears always said the machete was the ultimate survival tool. Since it can be used as a weapon and is basically a knife/axe combo and Ray knows all things I will go with that.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: David Johansen on August 23, 2009, 09:57:22 PM
Since it came up, the AK 47 is a nasty, nasty gun in Rolemaster.  Lots of damage, autofire, and of course beautiful, lethal, Ballistic criticals.

Of course I disagree that Rolemaster is complex or slow.  There are far fewer rules instances to track than GURPS, HERO, or D&D 3.5 or D&Dish 4.  The tables are no slower than looking up a table or a rule in any other rpg and I know from experience that you'll wind up doing so in any of the above.

As for slow, yes chart checking and double digit math can slow things down a bit.  But when you hit things suffer horribly and then die.  And Rolemaster has a very low whiff factor.

Now then, on to the best weapon in Rolemaster, excluding autofire lasers because long range, acurate, autofire weapons that do Raking criticals won't be turning up in your arabian nights game if your GM has a shred of decency.

Quarter Staffs are really pretty good.  They're easy to hit with, do decent damage, and are long enough to get an initiative bonus against that guy with the sword.  But you can't throw them effectively.  You can try to parry against thrown stuff like that hand axe but they're short on reach out and touch someone.

Rapiers are also easy to hit with, mainly do puncture crits, and do fairly well against heavier armour.

Scimitars and falcheons really get short shrift in Rolemaster which is sad in an Arabian setting.

Personally I like a rock and Power Throwing skill.  I've always thought a professional pitcher (90mph fast ball) with a good supply of rocks would really be a scary fantasy character.

If you're using The Armoury I also suggest getting some ranks in Fish (yes I said FISH) It's a lovely one handed concussion weapon and I even wrote up a critical table for it.  :D
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Tetsubo on August 24, 2009, 07:37:09 AM
Quote from: Aos;323209That time will never come. Ever. The law has more to do with it that the airlines. When you enter the airport you are essentially guilty until proven innocent.  It sucks, but they've got all the planes.
I tried to catch a bus for Europe; it didn't work out so well.

Which runs counter to a thousand years of legal tradition and the entire age of America. I guess I won't be going to Europe. Pity really, I always wanted to stand on Hadrian's Wall.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Aos on August 24, 2009, 09:30:16 AM
I go every year. The fifteen minutes I spend passing through security doesn't bother me, really. The flight is far more inconvenient and unpleasant.

The good news is that in Europe the security is considerably more relaxed. They don't even check to see if your guns are clean.
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Premier on August 24, 2009, 11:29:06 AM
Quote from: Aos;323466I go every year. The fifteen minutes I spend passing through security doesn't bother me, really. The flight is far more inconvenient and unpleasant.

The good news is that in Europe the security is considerably more relaxed. They don't even check to see if your guns are clean.

Holy shit, your airport security is more pointlessly harsh than ours?
Title: Best weapon?
Post by: Aos on August 24, 2009, 04:14:59 PM
We have to take off our shoes over here- I've never had to do that in Europe. Also when I reentered the US this year they had a dog in the customs line. Contrast this with Madrid, where I wandered outside the airport whilst looking for the customs line. I waited for about a minute expecting to be tackled by some cops, nothing happened. After a couple more minutes, I lit a cigarette and flagged down a cab.