Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2023, 07:06:25 AM
The aesthetic is awesome, but it's essentially a storygame when you get right down to it. Probably one of the biggest disappointments in a game I've ever had, honestly.

And here comes the dreaded "storygame" argument again. What definition are you using this time? The players certainly don't have much power over the setting, which is one definition I have heard. In some ways they have less of these "fluid" options than, say, Savage Worlds or Fate. There's "Hope", but I think that fits the setting beautifully.

Quote from: Persimmon on November 30, 2023, 09:03:02 AM

For us, both editions of TOR feel much more like board games than RPGs.  They claim to emphasize roleplaying, but it's mostly handling through a bunch of dice rolls and consultation of tables.  The journey rules are freaking awful.  Roll a bunch of dice to predetermine how your PCs will feel after the journey.  And the PCs have to pre-select roles for the journey and IIRC, there are rolls for each of them.  Why not just have the GM and players arrive at that through roleplaying it out?  The council rules are pretty much the same.  Roll a bunch of dice to determine success.  I guess this makes sense given that the lead designer was a board game designer first.

Well, Gygax was a board game designer first too. Yes, there is a lot of finicky little mechanics, but I find they are really easy to skip if you don't need them. I personally never used all the details in, say, Rolemaster, either (in fact, I find the full gamut of armor penalties etc unplayable), and with AD&D I wouldn't even try. If you want to flesh out the traveling, then roleplay through the whole thing. Use or simplify as needed. That's what roleplaying gamers have always done since the very beginning.

Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2023, 11:32:24 AM
No, sorry. You can't say a game requires MORE ROLEPLAYING than D&D when D&D, by definition, defined roleplaying. IDGAF what you think, D&D has just as much roleplaying as any other game. Now, if you have some other definition of "roleplaying," please provide it.

Wow you are really spoiling for a fucking fight. Reread my answer. I list out what AiME provides as far as Middle Earth goes. In case you need some remedial reading skill update. That means that AiME provides better support for roleplaying and running campaigns in Middle Earth than what D&D does or MERP for that matter.

Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2023, 11:32:24 AM
So is MERP. I mean, they literally both have Middle-Earth in the fucking names.

Which does not change the fact that MERP is just Rolemaster Lite. Which is 100% my opinion.

Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2023, 11:32:24 AM
I think AiME is pure garbage compared to MERP, and this statement is 100% opinion. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Great I think MERP is garbage as Middle Earth RPG and You think AiME is garbage. Case solved Sherlock.

Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2023, 11:32:24 AM
So basically your answer boils down to, "I like this more, so it's better." I'm doing the same thing, but also can back up my statements with the FACT that MERP supplements are better because they have way better art and stats for Ringil.

MERP art except for the McBride covers are meh. Also 100% my opinion. And as for Ringil I am sure the fact it has kewl powers like a +88 bonus, it is Holy, does additional Cold Criticals, and quadruple concussion damage among other abilities has made you a fan of the weapon. Of course, it helped nobody was paying attention to Iron Crown when they added stuff from the Silmarillion that they didn't have a license for.

Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2023, 11:32:24 AM
EDIT: If it matters (it doesn't) I got rid of all my non-MERP stuff last year. This includes every single Decipher book, a complete set of The One Ring, and all the Adventures in Middle-Earth stuff. I found none of it to actually be compelling, but at least MERP has a cool gritty vibe.

Likewise I got ride of most of my MERP stuff around 2000.

Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2023, 11:34:22 AM
Nahh, estar here thinks it's a great game and you're just wrong. Sorry.

No I am a fan of AiME and the LoTR RPG and their supplements. I don't care for ToR core books at all. Still have to work on that reading comprehension.

AND YOU'RE ALL WRONG THE ONE RING IS THE BEST WHICH IS WHY I'M WRITING IN ALL CAPS     RAAAAAH!   



......anyhow

Quote from: estar on November 30, 2023, 02:57:08 PM
Wow you are really spoiling for a fucking fight. Reread my answer. I list out what AiME provides as far as Middle Earth goes. In case you need some remedial reading skill update. That means that AiME provides better support for roleplaying and running campaigns in Middle Earth than what D&D does or MERP for that matter.

I asked for specifics what constitutes "roleplaying" in this statement. You have failed to provide anything as to what you mean, precisely. Other than essentially badmouth anyone who plays RPGs in anything resembling a traditional, normal style.

QuoteWhich does not change the fact that MERP is just Rolemaster Lite. Which is 100% my opinion.

Yeah, and AIME is 100% 5th edition D&D, which literally undermines your entire non-argument about needing "more roleplaying for M-E than D&D allows." Nicely done.

QuoteGreat I think MERP is garbage as Middle Earth RPG and You think AiME is garbage. Case solved Sherlock.

Yes, and you are wrong. Case indeed solved.

QuoteMERP art except for the McBride covers are meh. Also 100% my opinion. And as for Ringil I am sure the fact it has kewl powers like a +88 bonus, it is Holy, does additional Cold Criticals, and quadruple concussion damage among other abilities has made you a fan of the weapon. Of course, it helped nobody was paying attention to Iron Crown when they added stuff from the Silmarillion that they didn't have a license for.

The autism is just shining through here; your complete inability to grasp simple sarcasm is apparent.

QuoteLikewise I got ride of most of my MERP stuff around 2000.

So? You're the one insinuating my opinion was purely arbitrary while yours had a basis in concrete reality. Essentially you tried to make it sound like only someone with no experience in AIME or whatever else could like MERP, which is absurd.

You have no actual argument beyond you like that game more because you still won't define what you mean by "roleplaying". For some reason, wanting to pretend to be rangers investigating the Barrow Downs is NOT roleplaying, but using all sorts of narrative sub-games is? So, you're a storygamer, not a roleplayer is what I am reading, I guess.

Quote from: estar on November 30, 2023, 02:59:52 PMNo I am a fan of AiME and the LoTR RPG and their supplements. I don't care for ToR core books at all. Still have to work on that reading comprehension.

Where are you on the spectrum...I am curious.

REALLY liking the tone of Against the Darkmaster but boy are the rules...dense. I don't mind crunch, but I'm wondering if this is too much. Anyone have experience with AtD? Does it play better than it reads?

I opened the Quickstart preview of Against the Darkmaster on DrivethruRPG. Holy hell, what's up with that cover art? 
Not only does it look like a bad McBride copy, but one of the characters looks a bit like a drag queen.

Quote from: Trond on November 30, 2023, 10:19:56 PM
Not only does it look like a bad McBride copy, but one of the characters looks a bit like a drag queen.

Quite sure it's an homage to McBride and I'm not seeing the dragqueen.

Quote from: Matrix Sorcica on December 01, 2023, 04:47:05 AM

Quote from: Trond on November 30, 2023, 10:19:56 PM
Not only does it look like a bad McBride copy, but one of the characters looks a bit like a drag queen.

Quite sure it's an homage to McBride and I'm not seeing the dragqueen.

Are you looking at the Quickstart? I'm not talking about the main book.

@Monero

I know you've seen a few opinions tossed around, but I'm not sure that any of them have made a compelling case for what YOU should do.  In fact, I'm not sure that any of them could because I think it's important to outline what you're hoping to achieve. 

First off, besides you and your wife, who else would you be playing with?  Are they new to role-playing?  Will they have any interest in rules or will they expect you to handle all of that yourself? 

What type of campaign sounds good to you?  In the movies the hobbits mostly ran from the Nazgul.  When they found themselves in the middle of a pitched battle, they mostly tried to stay out of the way.  The idea that the evil forces are too powerful to directly confront is an important element in the books and movies...but...it's also clear that sometimes you have to fight even against long odds.  In Moria they fight the cave troll, but they run from the Balrog.    The party fights the horde of Uruk-Hai at Amon Hen but it is a strategic defeat.  Outside of Aragorn fighting wolf-riders that appears only in the movies, most of the rest of the combat is army versus army. 

There are a lot of games that support robust combat, but it can set your game up for failure if players think they're supposed to fight but they're really supposed to run.  Likewise, if the only way to fight battles is to use Diplomacy to gather forces and make strategic decisions, that's very different than a turn-based small-party combat game like D&D. 

Many role-playing games do decently well when there is a specific object and known obstacles.  Clearing a dungeon is something that D&D is really good for, but walking for months with the hope of surviving in a swamp is something that tends to disappear into 'make a skill check, okay, you survive the swamp' outside of encounters.  Likewise, D&D assumes you fight and kill monsters and rewards you with higher levels - a character like Frodo is really no more powerful when he reaches Mount Doom versus when he left the Shire.  A game where some characters are relatively powerful but others are weak can be hard to maintain in a collaborative story-telling game. 

Some of what makes the movies so magical for the audience is a chance to see a world that we've imagined brought to life.  When the camera focuses on the 'bigatures' like Rivendell, we're swept up in the visual wonder.  Even with the best descriptive text, it's hard to describe walking the halls of Rivendell as well as the Peter Jackson movies did it.  A lot of the WONDER can get lost in an RPG. 

If you're interested in playing in the world, there's a lot you can do outside of the main story.  Characters like Faramir and the Rangers are involved in dealing with problems even when the book isn't on them.  Playing a campaign where the PCs are all rangers trying to protect a particular region from dark forces will play very differently than a campaign where you need to call on all the heads of state to assemble an army.  If you want to do BOTH, well, that's not impossible, but usually it means trade-offs. 

If you can describe what you think a good campaign would like like, there's a much better chance that you will get a meaningful and helpful suggestion. 

The One Ring 2e is really good.

The Lord of the Rings RPG 5e is great as well.  I'm playing in an online campaign currently and it is wonderful.  A fantastic adaptation of The One Ring to D&D mechanics.  It is much more of a complete conversion of TOR than what the previous Adventures in Middle Earth was.

Quote from: Monero on November 30, 2023, 05:57:08 PM
REALLY liking the tone of Against the Darkmaster but boy are the rules...dense. I don't mind crunch, but I'm wondering if this is too much. Anyone have experience with AtD? Does it play better than it reads?

I played in an epic online AtD campaign recently.  I really enjoyed the campaign and it was a blast.  The story and GM were great.  I thought I'd like the AtD mechanics more than I actually ended up liking them.  They were a bit too much like MERP for my tastes and a bit bogged down in rule minutiae.  Just wait till you get into a combat with a lot of PCs and NPCs to have to manage....it becomes a nightmare really fast.  I also found leveling up to be pretty tedious and confusing at times.  It is a bit of a shame because I thought I'd enjoy the game mechanics more when I first read through the book, but in play it can be burdensome.

The experience of the campaign was good, but it was more so due to the GM and the story and not the mechanics so much.

Quote from: Batjon on December 01, 2023, 11:27:49 AM
The One Ring 2e is really good.

The Lord of the Rings RPG 5e is great as well.  I'm playing in an online campaign currently and it is wonderful.  A fantastic adaptation of The One Ring to D&D mechanics.  It is much more of a complete conversion of TOR than what the previous Adventures in Middle Earth was.

Can you sum up the differences between AiME and LoTR 5E? Why on earth did they change they change the name...

I'm hoping its "not enough changed, stick with AiME" because i have a massive pdf bundle. Hows the backwards compatability?

Quote from: Aglondir on December 01, 2023, 01:02:21 PM

Quote from: Batjon on December 01, 2023, 11:27:49 AM
The One Ring 2e is really good.

The Lord of the Rings RPG 5e is great as well.  I'm playing in an online campaign currently and it is wonderful.  A fantastic adaptation of The One Ring to D&D mechanics.  It is much more of a complete conversion of TOR than what the previous Adventures in Middle Earth was.

Can you sum up the differences between AiME and LoTR 5E? Why on earth did they change they change the name...

I'm hoping its "not enough changed, stick with AiME" because i have a massive pdf bundle. Hows the backwards compatability?

A quote I read online that is a decent summary: "They are very different. Essentially they start with the same starting point (5e) but are built separately from there. LotR5e is closer to TOR and AiME is closer to D&D5e, though both have had considerable changes for 5e to suit the source material."

https://www.reddit.com/r/AiME/comments/17va4nb/lotr_5e_vs_aime/

https://forum.frialigan.se/viewtopic.php?t=10127

https://forum.frialigan.se/viewtopic.php?t=11089