Hello folks,
My birthday's coming up and as my present to myself I'm thinking of getting a tablet. Ideally I'd like one optimised to support my GMing, so the criteria for what I'd want to do with it are as follows:
- Needs to have really robust PDF support - nice display, easy to read even small text, fast page turning, fast searching and looking up of bookmarks, even with multiple documents open and other background apps running.
- It'd be good if it could also play music loops in the background - either on its own speakers or, if possible on other speakers if it can steam to them. My current thinking is to get playlists set up on subsonic (http://www.subsonic.org/pages/apps.jsp), which I have running on my desktop, and use the tablet to stream from there, so masses of storage space isn't necessarily useful.
- Robust streaming video support would also be useful if I want to incorporate something off YouTube into a game (or if I want to watch Netflix between games).
- Decent web browsing also useful, would prefer a tablet which by default can handle the full-blooded versions of website rather than the mobile versions.
Writing of documents and spreadsheets and the like is a decidedly secondary concern, being able to do quick edits in Google Docs of some things on the fly is about all I'd use it for in that respect.
Any recommendations/warnings?
Quote from: Warthur;750115- Needs to have really robust PDF support - nice display, easy to read even small text, fast page turning, fast searching and looking up of bookmarks, even with multiple documents open and other background apps running.
You might not want an Ipad then, unless mine, being first edition is different... it doesn't really do more than one thing at a time. Not even multiple tabs of web pages (jumping between them isn't much faster than reloading pages). It will play music in the background, but that's about it... but like I said, newer versions might be better.
Quote- Robust streaming video support would also be useful if I want to incorporate something off YouTube into a game (or if I want to watch Netflix between games).
I don't like how the Ipad interacts with YouTube video... it doesn't like to let you scrub through, if you move the marker back it tends to just drop whatever video has buffered.
Quote- Decent web browsing also useful, would prefer a tablet which by default can handle the full-blooded versions of website rather than the mobile versions.
The Ipad is, again, a bit gimped on that... I still regularly run into page features that won't work... video that won't load (apple's silly issue with Quicktime).
QuoteWriting of documents and spreadsheets and the like is a decidedly secondary concern, being able to do quick edits in Google Docs of some things on the fly is about all I'd use it for in that respect.
I wouldn't try to use an Ipad for any sort of content creation... even with a full sized keyboard plugged in, it's just too limited for my tastes.
It's a mobile storefront primarily and a media device secondarily.. any other uses are not it's forte. I use it for looking at the internet when I'm away from my desktop and for reading books (including rulebooks). Mine was given to me but, after having it for a while, I wouldn't buy one myself... I'd rather have a full laptop.
Quote from: Warthur;750115- Needs to have really robust PDF support - nice display, easy to read even small text, fast page turning, fast searching and looking up of bookmarks, even with multiple documents open and other background apps running.
So this is really more dependant on the apps than the hardware. Older units used to struggle but the modern multi core stuff should chew through PDFs no problem. Two things here -
A) Can you side load apps, especially the Amazon store? Devices that can will ultimately have more choices in apps.
B) Can you get tablet versions of the PDFs? These will have blank backgrounds, one file per chapter, etc. Much much much easier to use, IMO.
Quote from: Warthur;750115- It'd be good if it could also play music loops in the background - either on its own speakers or, if possible on other speakers if it can steam to them. My current thinking is to get playlists set up on subsonic (http://www.subsonic.org/pages/apps.jsp), which I have running on my desktop, and use the tablet to stream from there, so masses of storage space isn't necessarily useful.
Android has multiple apps where you can stream audio (and video) that's stored on the network. I'd be surprised if Apple didn't as well.
As for hardware, I would nudge you towards Bluetooth and a Beats Pill or similar. Heck I saw a boom box at Walmart the other day that could play Bluetooth audio.
But again both flavors should do this, no problem.
Quote from: Warthur;750115- Robust streaming video support would also be useful if I want to incorporate something off YouTube into a game (or if I want to watch Netflix between games).
When it comes to video streaming, I love love love Chromecast. If you have an HDMI TV anywhere nearby it will blow the other solutions away. Both types can do Chrome casting as it depends on the app, e.g. YouTube.
Quote from: Warthur;750115- Decent web browsing also useful, would prefer a tablet which by default can handle the full-blooded versions of website rather than the mobile versions.
I understand Android is best here as Apple really locks you in to Safari. Android users can load Chrome, Dolphin, Firefox, etc and those all have plugins for desktop mode. Chrome will even auto zoom your clicks for you, which makes those desktop interfaces a lot easier to use.
Quote from: Warthur;750115Writing of documents and spreadsheets and the like is a decidedly secondary concern, being able to do quick edits in Google Docs of some things on the fly is about all I'd use it for in that respect.
Anything can handle this for you.
I use an iPad 2. It's fine with multitasking and streaming game music to a bluetooth speaker (I use a cheap Creative D80).
PDF rendering is app dependent, and Goodreader is much faster than others (Foxit, iBooks, etc.) with recent update, and has annotation features as well as remote synching to your server shares, etc. Worth paying for.
For trad pdfs in large format you want as big a screen as possible, IMHO. The iPad does OK, but it's still better for digest format games.
The need to use a mobile website with the iPad is a myth, and there's a Chrome app. However Safari's fine.
Downside is no flash (but there's a Youtube app).
Edit: I wouldn't want to do spreadsheet editiing. I use iThoughts for mindmapping and Mandalachart too, works well.
I've found iPad is really good for pdfs. The only think about the iPad is it really sucks for productivity software if you're talking real apps and not phone crap. You'd have to go to something like a Surface 2 Pro to get pdf reader of your choice, Office, and whatever players you want on it. From your list of requirements I think iPad is your best bet. Get Goodreader, without it, I would have tossed the iPad a while ago.
Quote from: CRKrueger;750139I've found iPad is really good for pdfs. The only think about the iPad is it really sucks for productivity software if you're talking real apps and not phone crap. You'd have to go to something like a Surface 2 Pro to get pdf reader of your choice, Office, and whatever players you want on it. From your list of requirements I think iPad is your best bet. Get Goodreader, without it, I would have tossed the iPad a while ago.
What is goodreader and does it get around some of the formatting weirdness that occurs with some PDFs on the iPad (rows missing, fonts acting funny, etc).
Quote from: CRKrueger;750139I've found iPad is really good for pdfs. The only think about the iPad is it really sucks for productivity software if you're talking real apps and not phone crap. You'd have to go to something like a Surface 2 Pro to get pdf reader of your choice, Office, and whatever players you want on it. From your list of requirements I think iPad is your best bet. Get Goodreader, without it, I would have tossed the iPad a while ago.
IDK, I find Pages to be perfectly fine
as a word processor; I wouldn't use it for document layout or anything complex, but that's fine, it clearly isn't designed for that, it's a backup for when you're away from your home machine.
My suggestion, again, would be the iPad, unless you have some ridiculous holy war against Apple (Although, to be fair, iTunes is shit and the entire team behind the Windows version of it should be shot).
Probably go for a used 4th gen, for the best combination of price and capability - the 3rd has the same screen but lacks the graphics chip to properly power it (So don't bother with that one), while the older ones have worse specs, worse screen, and have long since fallen off Apple's support queue. The newest (5th) gen are wonderful, of course, but also more expensive.
The on-screen keyboard works great, the web browser handles the real versions of websites (Except for plugins like Flash, natch) rather than mobile, it does music without a problem, and web browsing on it is wonderful. It handles multitasking fine, even with a lot of apps open.
The only thing you can't really do is have two PDF's on-screen at the same time, as far as I'm aware; the default PDF reader that people recommend (Goodreader) can open multiple PDF's, but it puts them in tabs rather than both visible at the same time. Switching, though, is fast.
If you can afford it, go for the iPad Air. It's more expensive than the fourth generation iPad, but it's also (as the name implies) less heavy. It seems like a little thing, but the heavier weight of the older iPads compared to the new iPad Air is noticeable. If you plan to read off the iPad a lot while holding it, something to consider.
The iPad is the most popular tablet for consumers, business and education for a damn good reason.
Quote from: Piestrio;750194The iPad is the most popular tablet for consumers, business and education for a damn good reason.
"Marketing"
:)
I have a Nexus 7, which I use mostly for reading comics and RPG stuff. It works really well, even though it isn't the newest iteration. And its much much cheaper than an iPad.
Screen size isn't huge, but honestly, with the PPI, it has a sharp enough image to read full 8.5x11 RPG book pages without trouble for me, though I have decent vision (well, in on eye, the other is legally blind due to a work accident.)
Quote from: mcbobbo;750198"Marketing"
:)
Funny, Apple has one of the lowest marketing budgets in the tech world. Certainly lower than was spent on the Surface, Galaxy Tab, etc...
Must be mind-control rays. ;)
Quote from: Piestrio;750194The iPad is the most popular tablet for consumers, business and education for a damn good reason.
Nothing else was out when most people got theirs? :D
All Apple really has is marketshare and the more mature Appstore. Microsoft has a real OS on a tablet, Google has better specs for less money.
Apple/Google is a Coke/Pepsi thing with Microsoft somehow deciding seppuku is a great marketing strategy.
Quote from: CRKrueger;750205Microsoft has a real OS on a tablet, Google has better specs for less money.
Microsoft has shown once and for all what an awful idea it is to put a desktop OS on a tablet.
All Google did was show that spec sheets don't matter.
I'm not a reflexive Apple fanboy (have an Android phone) but I've found the iPad to be best for viewing rpg pdfs. This is because the screen ratio is 4:3 unlike the 16:9 of Android tablets. 4:3 being virtually the same ratio as most pdfs, so you can view a pdf on the 9.7 inch iPad at a higher zoom level than on a 10.1 inch Android tablet.
If you're not averse to the idea of Windows 8 or a convertible, the Lenovo Yoga is a solid touch-enabled device. I have the 13 inch for work reasons, which is awkward to hold for casual reading, though the larger format of textbooks and RPG books works pretty well when you have it resting on a table, and you have your choice of PDF reader (the Win8 PDF reader is actually now my favorite for browsing RPG books -- pinching brings up a spread of mini preview panels of each page you can scroll through, so finding charts is easier).
There is an 11 inch version out there, which would be much easier to use as an actual tablet and would be a bit more portable.
Two things to be wary of:
1) Some older models of the Yoga do not use Haswell core Intel processors, which are much more efficient when it comes to battery life. Make sure you're getting a Haswell core model.
2) The keyboard is exposed when in tablet mode, but is turned off. It's more of an aesthetics thing, but some people do not like it.
Other than that, it's a solid media device, while still remaining a laptop so you can still get the most out of productivity software. The other "modes" of the laptop aside from normal and tablet are nice bonuses (screen facing away from keyboard, and "tent" mode).
Obviously it's pricey since it's an ultrabook, but the 11 inch Yoga 2 goes for around 600 (so about the same as an upper-end iPad).
Quote from: The_Shadow;750207I'm not a reflexive Apple fanboy (have an Android phone) but I've found the iPad to be best for viewing rpg pdfs. This is because the screen ratio is 4:3 unlike the 16:9 of Android tablets. 4:3 being virtually the same ratio as most pdfs, so you can view a pdf on the 9.7 inch iPad at a higher zoom level than on a 10.1 inch Android tablet.
I have an Asus Transformer TF101. An older model I have kept current with ROM updates (another thread perhaps...). The screen size is a biggie. It would be great to have A4 page size for the screen, but it just isn't the case with a lot of tablets I have seen.
The TF101 chugs a bit on larger PDFs (Onyx Path, Eclipse Phase), but that is just another reason why I opt for books over PDFs (aside from navigation issues and reading from a screen).
Advice: Buy a large format Android tablet. Find one with a removable SD/micro SD card slot. Fill it with what you want/need. Avoid network charges by going for a wi-fi only model and piggie-back it on your phone or home network. Don't worry about connecting to it via USB. Either use network/cloud storage to shift stuff across or a separate card reader (if you plug it into a computer and the SD card is not recognised by the computer,but it usually is so whatev!). Plug speakers in through the headphone socket.
???
Win.
Quote from: Piestrio;750203Funny, Apple has one of the lowest marketing budgets in the tech world. Certainly lower than was spent on the Surface, Galaxy Tab, etc...
Must be mind-control rays. ;)
Never underestimate the power of the master salesman, Steve Jobs, and his Reality Distortion Field.
Quote from: BarefootGaijin;750224Advice: Buy a large format Android tablet. Find one with a removable SD/micro SD card slot. Fill it with what you want/need. Avoid network charges by going for a wi-fi only model and piggie-back it on your phone or home network. Don't worry about connecting to it via USB. Either use network/cloud storage to shift stuff across or a separate card reader (if you plug it into a computer and the SD card is not recognised by the computer,but it usually is so whatev!). Plug speakers in through the headphone socket.
???
Win.
So... don't worry about connecting via USB, but do find one with an SD card and plug that into a USB card reader? :)
Anyway, the things I value most in my iPad for running games are:
- fast pdf page rendering
- screen actually responds when you touch it
- NO WIRES
If you want to run a game and actually handle the tablet, pass it around and display images, trailing wires are a PITA. Make use of Bluetooth if you want external speakers.
For fast pdf rendering, you may have no issue with an up-to-date tablet. My iPad 2 is obviously old, so optimised apps make a difference -- particularly as pdf sizes are not always optimised.
As for screen response -- if the capacitive screen has lag when you try to use it, it will bug you in the long run. I've only seen it when comparing older Android phones to Apple products. Again probably won't be an issue with a modern device.
Just so I don't seem like an Apple fanboy, a colleague has a Samsung phone and a tablet (Galaxy Note 8, I think) and he's very pleased.
Quote from: The_Shadow;750207I'm not a reflexive Apple fanboy (have an Android phone) but I've found the iPad to be best for viewing rpg pdfs. This is because the screen ratio is 4:3 unlike the 16:9 of Android tablets. 4:3 being virtually the same ratio as most pdfs, so you can view a pdf on the 9.7 inch iPad at a higher zoom level than on a 10.1 inch Android tablet.
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. For reading, iPads are the best tablets out there. I primarily use my tablet to read, whether it be role-playing game books, comic books, or magazines. Reading on an iPad is more enjoyable than on any other tablet due to the 4:3 screen ratio. I've tried reading on a Microsoft Surface. Between its 16:9 screen ratio and the Surface's weight, it was nowhere near as pleasant an experience.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;750140What is goodreader and does it get around some of the formatting weirdness that occurs with some PDFs on the iPad (rows missing, fonts acting funny, etc).
Goodreader is a paid-for pdf (and other) reader for iOS with a ton of features you may or may not want.
Never encountered "formatting weirdness". Have seen corrupted pdfs that would only render on certain readers, but if I can't read it with several readers on the computer I wouldn't bother putting it on the tablet anyway. Main problem I've had with font rendering has been under Linux.
Do you have specific examples of problematic products? I've got a lot of pdfs, possibly I own one where you've had a problem and I can test.
Quote from: Piestrio;750203Funny, Apple has one of the lowest marketing budgets in the tech world. Certainly lower than was spent on the Surface, Galaxy Tab, etc...
Must be mind-control rays. ;)
You'd have to count in the intangibles, if you wanted to be intellectually honest about it. Like the hacker FUD they spread or the way their cases never cover their logo.
Point is there is a 'status' to owning Apple that nobody else has. Not sure which spreadsheet column that goes into, but it has basically nil to do with the device or its software.
Quote from: Celestial;750242Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. For reading, iPads are the best tablets out there. I primarily use my tablet to read, whether it be role-playing game books, comic books, or magazines. Reading on an iPad is more enjoyable than on any other tablet due to the 4:3 screen ratio. I've tried reading on a Microsoft Surface. Between its 16:9 screen ratio and the Surface's weight, it was nowhere near as pleasant an experience.
I'm not certain Google forces tablets to have any certain screen ratio.
Edit - Here's one... http://www.trustedreviews.com/archos-97-platinum_Tablet_review
Quote from: Emperor Norton;750201I have a Nexus 7, which I use mostly for reading comics and RPG stuff. It works really well, even though it isn't the newest iteration. And its much much cheaper than an iPad.
Screen size isn't huge, but honestly, with the PPI, it has a sharp enough image to read full 8.5x11 RPG book pages without trouble for me, though I have decent vision (well, in on eye, the other is legally blind due to a work accident.)
I also use a Nexus 7 (which I love), but while comics and RPG materials look fine, I suspect I'd enjoy them more on the Nexus 10's larger screen. The 7 is much easier to hold with one hand, though - especially with the Moko case that includes a hand strap.
Double-column RPG books, and scanned books with graphic-heavy backgrounds behind the text are more difficult to read. Single-column books like Fate (and Corporia, since that's how I designed it) are easily legible on the 7-inch screen, through. My two most used reading apps are Aldiko (for ebooks and PDFs) and ComicRack (for .cbr and .cbz comic files).
If you're like me and you really love the ease of drag-and-drop files and folders, and hate having to run all your files through iTunes, iPhoto, etc., I'd definitely suggest checking out the Nexus. It gets pretty consistently good reviews.
I've used it for most of what the OP wants, with the exception of background music - I've never tried that.
Quote from: mcbobbo;750267You'd have to count in the intangibles, if you wanted to be intellectually honest about it.
iProducts sell well because they do the thing that you buy them for, very well, and with a lovely UI on top. They are made for people who don't give a shit about how anything works, they just want it to work.
Don't get me wrong, I like to tinker, I build my own PC's, but I also like having a device that I can just pick up and do something with, with no faffing about.
Quote from: smiorgan;750243Goodreader is a paid-for pdf (and other) reader for iOS with a ton of features you may or may not want.
Currently, £2, although I think it's increasing to £5 at some point, and There Are Other PDF Readers Available For Your Device .
I don't see any reason software should be cheaper or free just because it's being called an "app" instead of a "program". Adobe Reader or Foxit are given to the user for free in an attempt to sell extras, like corporate support contracts or the to promote the PDF format itself, but mobile developers tend to only be selling their product rather than an ecosystem.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;750140What is goodreader and does it get around some of the formatting weirdness that occurs with some PDFs on the iPad (rows missing, fonts acting funny, etc).
Goodreader is the PDF reader I used and the only issue I ran into is with PDF of maps with layers. (Like the maps of Harn and Shorkyne from Kelestia.com).
Otherwise that that I recommend it highly for those ith iPads.
It has a lot of nice bells and whistles like a wi-fi hotspot server that you can use to transfer files. Excellent file management tools. What i recommend is use Dropbox and/or Google Drive (I have both).
It ability to manually crop PDFs is great.
It has annotation and mark up capabilities but truth be told I never use those.
Quote from: Mark Plemmons;750308I also use a Nexus 7 (which I love), but while comics and RPG materials look fine, I suspect I'd enjoy them more on the Nexus 10's larger screen. The 7 is much easier to hold with one hand, though - especially with the Moko case that includes a hand strap.
Yeah, if your eyes aren't pretty good, I would go with a 10 as well. The PPI lets the 7 be really sharp with its images, but you'll need it to be bigger if its going to look a bit blurry anyway. My original tablet though was a 10 inch, and I find the 7 so much easier to hold (I can easily palm it while reading with one hand).
Honestly, I've used an iPad as well, and I honestly don't see the obsession with them. I found my Nexus more comfortable and easier to use, and even if the iPad was better, it would have to be an INSANE amount better to justify the fact that they are double or more the price.
Quote from: Piestrio;750194The iPad is the most popular tablet for consumers, business and education for a damn good reason.
It the most popular brand, but Android based tablets outstrip iPads in market share.
With that being said, I have both a iPad and Android tables (Nexus 7). I like the openess of the Nexus 7 but I use my iPad more because well it just better. Not an order of magnitude better but definitely better. So for a prospective buyer with the money, you won't go wrong with buying an iPad.
However you won't go wrong either with a Nexus 7 (or 10) either. And you will need it if you want to do extensive customization or need specific types of apps not found in the App Store of Apple. Certainly the price is not steep and the quality of the google line is on par with Apple.
Quote from: Ladybird;750330Currently, £2, although I think it's increasing to £5 at some point, and There Are Other PDF Readers Available For Your Device .
I don't see any reason software should be cheaper or free just because it's being called an "app" instead of a "program". Adobe Reader or Foxit are given to the user for free in an attempt to sell extras, like corporate support contracts or the to promote the PDF format itself, but mobile developers tend to only be selling their product rather than an ecosystem.
As I said upthread, Goodreader renders pdf faster on my older iPad than iBooks, etc. Liked it so much I bought it twice (paid to upgrade to v4). Since that was one of the OP's must-haves I thought it was relevant.
Quote from: Ladybird;750330iProducts sell well because they do the thing that you buy them for, very well, and with a lovely UI on top. They are made for people who don't give a shit about how anything works, they just want it to work.
Don't get me wrong, I like to tinker, I build my own PC's, but I also like having a device that I can just pick up and do something with, with no faffing about.
When Apple releases a new product for a market that wasn't there before, like the iPad, that doesn't necessarily hold up. At that point, Steve Jobs has to convince people that a) there is a need, and b) you have to buy the Apple offering RIGHT NOW.
And that is where Apple misses Steve; they HAVE no replacement for the "One more thing" guy.
Yes, Apple's devices work in general (Maps, anyone?), but you have to be cognizant that you're buying into a closed system that has design asthetics first and then functionality second. If you're fine with that, then go for it.
After watching my parents nuke their PC numerous times, I told them to go for a Mac for their next computer. And once they got over the learning curve, they were okay with it. (They still managed to get malware installed on the thing, however. :banghead:)
Quote from: flyerfan1991;750348Yes, Apple's devices work in general (Maps, anyone?), but you have to be cognizant that you're buying into a closed system that has design asthetics first and then functionality second. If you're fine with that, then go for it.
as big of fan as I am of open computing, it doesn't bother me as much on the iPad. I found this odd when I realize that my primary use of the iPad was as a consumption device. I primarily use it to consume content. Books, movies, video, tv shows, comics, etc.
I tried using it as a creation device but I always winding up and saying fuck it and just use the netbook/desktop setup I used before buying the iPad. Only now i have a Windows 8 touch enable netbook instead of the Asus Windows XP netbook I had before.
The exception would be software like Crawler's Companion for Dungeon Crawl Classic. Holy cow that is one great RPG utility. I consider it to be the model of how RPG utilities should work on a tablet. A combination of rule reference and random table automation that is outstanding. And get this you can have it roll on the table, but you also have a lookup mode where you can just punch a number and see the result of a physical dice roll.
Luckily Crawler is both on Android and iPad.
Unfortunately the Crawler's Companion pretty much stands alone. The closest would be Inspiration Pad Pro app for Android and Diconomicon for iPad.
Quote from: flyerfan1991;750239Never underestimate the power of the master salesman, Steve Jobs, and his Reality Distortion Field.
Quote from: mcbobbo;750267You'd have to count in the intangibles, if you wanted to be intellectually honest about it. Like the hacker FUD they spread or the way their cases never cover their logo.
Point is there is a 'status' to owning Apple that nobody else has. Not sure which spreadsheet column that goes into, but it has basically nil to do with the device or its software.
So no one who owns an iPad does so because they came to the conclusion that it's the best product on the market?
The assumption you both seem to be making is that it's not a good product and therefore people need other reasons to buy one ("marketing", "reality distortion field", etc...)
That's rather patronizing.
Quote from: Piestrio;750393So no one who owns an iPad does so because they came to the conclusion that it's the best product on the market?
The assumption you both seem to be making is that it's not a good product and therefore people need other reasons to buy one ("marketing", "reality distortion field", etc...)
That's rather patronizing.
I believe there is a huge segment who buy Apple portables 'just because' without really researching their opinions first. I think, if you look into tech circles you may find that I didn't invent the opinion.
So can people weigh the options and select Apple? Sure. So long as we're not talking about price, performance, compatibility, expandability, etc. Seriously, how is "cannot expand the memory" not a dealbreaker for anyone using a technical point of view? Particularly with pdfs, I mean who here is done buying them and doesn't need more space, ever?
I put no moral weight in what tablet you prefer, but I do disagree that Apple's single offering dejour can compete with literally hundreds of similar Android devices on a technical level. It's just not possible that they can stay best on the block with one product a year.
As for the Windows RT devices, I see them as another MS non-starter. I will be happy to admit I am wrong about that down the line.
In the 1990s, what the Mac did it did insanely well, but trying to do things outside of that was like pulling teeth. Windows had everything and everybody writing for it, and had a lot of good enough software. But the wealth of choices means there was a lot of crap as well as good stuff.
Eventually both platforms matured. The Mac gained a UNIX foundation so if you really had to do something you could take that route. Windows matured and gains so much software that even if you stuck with the best you still had a wealth of choices.
The current debate between iPad vs Android is a retread of that debate. With Android in Windows role, and the iPad continuing Apple's Mac legacy.
And like that debate it will end in the same way. With both platform maturing with roughly equal capabilities. The decision on which one to use will depend on price, opportunity (which you learn first), and the specific apps you want to run.
Right now there are programming tools you can buy that will allow you to program right on the iPad. Everything from Basic to Lua. Android is accumulating a suite of really good application that stand out amid of all the crap in the Google play store.
Quote from: Ladybird;750330iProducts sell well because they do the thing that you buy them for, very well, and with a lovely UI on top. They are made for people who don't give a shit about how anything works, they just want it to work.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. Android can get you off into the weeds pretty quickly.
I honestly see a future where Apple follows Amazon and constructs their walled garden but still has access to current hardware. But I remember when they werw going to leet Motorola sell Mac OS, too...
Quote from: mcbobbo;750398I believe there is a huge segment who buy Apple portables 'just because' without really researching their opinions first. I think, if you look into tech circles you may find that I didn't invent the opinion.
So can people weigh the options and select Apple? Sure. So long as we're not talking about price, performance, compatibility, expandability, etc. Seriously, how is "cannot expand the memory" not a dealbreaker for anyone using a technical point of view? Particularly with pdfs, I mean who here is done buying them and doesn't need more space, ever?
I put no moral weight in what tablet you prefer, but I do disagree that Apple's single offering dejour can compete with literally hundreds of similar Android devices on a technical level. It's just not possible that they can stay best on the block with one product a year.
As for the Windows RT devices, I see them as another MS non-starter. I will be happy to admit I am wrong about that down the line.
Counterpoint:
The iPad is sold as an appliance to people who don't expect to upgrade it. The need to hack, expand and replace the innards is a PC/Linux conceit, although there is a crossover between Apple users and people who are technically informed. I went over to Apple because I had enough disposable income and not enough time to keep fiddling with Linux boxes. Another friend went over to Apple because at the price point they're selling at his MBP was cheaper than the equivalent Windows laptop, although I have no idea how he made that comparison.
And since we're talking about propaganda (and it's a fair shout) the anti-Apple people like to paint Apple users as either hipsters posing in Starbucks while they pretend to write their screenplay, or complete ignorants who want Apple to wipe their bum for them. There is a third type of user, which is someone who knows their way around a computer but is prepared to pay a premium for the Apple device because it makes things easier.
Apple does compete with Android, but not on specs, on the available services. Forget expandable, open hardware, because that's irrelevant to most consumers. We should be viewing them like different Satellite TV providers, with the apps analogous to channels.
Yeah, I'm well aware Apple are screwing me, just like any other business. But at least they use lube.
Quote from: smiorgan;750346As I said upthread, Goodreader renders pdf faster on my older iPad than iBooks, etc. Liked it so much I bought it twice (paid to upgrade to v4). Since that was one of the OP's must-haves I thought it was relevant.
You're not going to get any arguments from me on that score, I've done the same thing.
What does bug me is the race-to-the-bottom, "all my tablet software should be freeeeee!" attitude that some people (None here in this discussion, though) have.
Quote from: mcbobbo;750398I believe there is a huge segment who buy Apple portables 'just because' without really researching their opinions first. I think, if you look into tech circles you may find that I didn't invent the opinion.
People don't just buy iDevices just because they exist, though; they buy them because they've spent a decade building up a reputation for quality portable machines. The "One more thing..." presentations are neat, but they really only apply to a small part of the market; it's word of mouth and seeing "hey, these things are pretty neat!" that sells your device to the masses.
Hardware specs, beyond a certain level, are just numbers for geeks (Like us) to argue about. The resources required to read Facebook, watch Netflix and play the latest Angry Birds are minimal, and that's all the majority of people really want from their computers, regardless of form factor.
Quote from: mcbobbo;750398So can people weigh the options and select Apple? Sure. So long as we're not talking about price, performance, compatibility, expandability, etc. Seriously, how is "cannot expand the memory" not a dealbreaker for anyone using a technical point of view?
With 30 years of working with computer hardware and programming CAD/CAM tools for metal cutting machines, I give the following reason.
1) Tablets are primarily consumption devices. To make them useful for content creation you need to turn them into little laptops with bluetooth keyboards, etc. There a comes a point where you just plain better off with a laptop.
2) On board storage isn't as critical as it once one. With the widespread availability of wi-fi, you wind up steaming half the stuff you are looking at.
3) For text media (including graphics heavy PDF) 16 gigs is a lot of space. If you go up 64 gig like I did it become a non-issue.
4) When you throw in Dropbox, Google Drive, MS One Drive, it becomes even less of a problem.
Quote from: mcbobbo;750398Particularly with pdfs, I mean who here is done buying them and doesn't need more space, ever?
The Kindle comes out to 5.1 gig and my Goodreaders comes out to 9.1 gigs. That would bust a 16 gig device. But I haven't really cleaned out either in a while and there are plenty of documents I could live with being on Dropbox and just download when I need it.
Quote from: mcbobbo;750398I put no moral weight in what tablet you prefer, but I do disagree that Apple's single offering dejour can compete with literally hundreds of similar Android devices on a technical level. It's just not possible that they can stay best on the block with one product a year.
Apple can compete because they know how to design. If they can keep that edge then they will remain as the best selling brand of tablet. By design I mean the whole package. Some of elements, like the technical specs, are only "good enough". While other are very good. But what make it shine is the combination.
I live and breeze technical specs but being part of a small company and having to work hand and hand with sales, I have come to realize that "design" is just as important. It not enough to have the specs you have the specs and the design working.
Finally people vary in what important to them in what a piece of technology must does. Apple has a goal at which they aim the iPad at. If you fall of out of the cone of that goal then iPad will be a royal pain to deal with. Which also means other solutions (like Android devices) will likely be the better fit. But Apple is not stupid they deliberately aim that cone at what they feel will gather in the most profitable market.
Quote from: mcbobbo;750398As for the Windows RT devices, I see them as another MS non-starter. I will be happy to admit I am wrong about that down the line.
RT will be a non-starter but full Windows tables like the 7" dells will find a niche. However the problem is that Windows strength is in creating content. Tablets users for the most part consume content.
With that being said, what I think will happen with computers that we move a plug and play future with docking stations. At home we have a base with usb style ports, large screen monitors w/ touch, printers, storage and other devices. we will reach over and yank out the tablet from the base which we can then carry with us. That "monitors" will diversify into surfaces for display and input.
That this is what will give Windows a new lease on life because of the mass of applications behind it.
A alternative is developing around technologies like the Chrome OS. Basically using the web based APIs to develop a traditional OS with applications.
The ChromeOS suffers from the same issue DropBox does - if you have WiFi you're golden. If you're offline or on LTE your experience will be less favorable.
I find that for PDF reading, my ipad (with goodreader) is very good. But for accessing Web content or using Google drive documents, my Galaxy Tab 3 8" is superior. This is probably due to new ios updates being optimized for newer ipads, so if you buy a more recent ipad, ymmv.
I have an iPad Mini 64GB (which basically has the same specs as the iPad 2) and have never had one issue with it. Nearly all the apps I'd want to use are released on iOS. PDF viewing is great. I got my girlfriend a Kindle Fire HDX for Christmas and it also works really well.
All these religious arguments are useless. Go to the store and try them out, pick whichever interface you like best.
Quote from: Piestrio;750393So no one who owns an iPad does so because they came to the conclusion that it's the best product on the market?
The assumption you both seem to be making is that it's not a good product and therefore people need other reasons to buy one ("marketing", "reality distortion field", etc...)
That's rather patronizing.
Why did people continue to buy the Chevy Lumina when the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord were available? Because it was the right product for them, not necessarily the right product in general.
How something becomes the right product for a person is the entire point of marketing. You develop a base, you sell people on the superiority of the product in various ways, and you market to that base.
It is just like cars. Some households are Chevy households, others are Ford households. Ratings and testing done in Consumer Reports and Car and Driver don't mean squat to them, because they buy on name alone. Even in the days when GM was cranking out some real crappy cars (Cadillac Cimmaron, anyone?) they still sold tons based on reputation and fanbase alone.
And Apple doesn't crank out shit.
Apple's ability to put out a (relatively) bug free product makes the sales job easier, but to make that jump from the hard core fanbase to the general population you need to sell the product. And we're not talking word of mouth, here, we're talking a big sell that causes tens of thousands of people to instantly drop $500+ dollars on a product that is out for only a week or two. THAT is where Steve Jobs was the master.
I've been satisfied using my 9" Nook HD+ and ezpdf so far. It's good enough for reading while I'm on the bus/train, plus it's fairly inexpensive now since BN decided to stop making tablets. It can play audio in the background, can play Youtube, Netflix, etc too. Probably not to most people's tastes, but for my simple needs, it works just fine
I freaking love my Nexus.
Quote from: RPGPundit;751474I freaking love my Nexus.
You need to get the Inspiration Pad Pro app. You can use the built in table or add new ones via the usb cable. The Windows version and the Android version use the same data files.
Quote from: estar;751515You need to get the Inspiration Pad Pro app. You can use the built in table or add new ones via the usb cable. The Windows version and the Android version use the same data files.
I do?
And what exactly would this be for?
I bought a first-generation iPad when they first came out, and was happy with its ability to render comics and PDFs (using Comics! and Goodreader, respectively) at high quality levels. However, the size and weight became a factor for me, so I started looking at smaller tablets.
I picked up a second generation Nexus 7 in the fall of 2013 and I was so impressed with it that I bought a Nexus 5 cell phone when my contract came up in the Spring (trading up from an iPhone 4S and eschewing the comparable and excellent iPhone 5S my wife bought). I use Perfect Viewer for comics and PDF Max for PDFs (normally 8 USD but I got it for free from an Amazon App Store daily sale). On the Nexus 7 it's phenomenal - crisp, clear text and visuals, snappy loading times, and excellent zoom and search features where necessary. PDF Max supports Dropbox integration, so I keep my current crop of PDFs there and download them as needed.
In terms of music, the Nexus line supports Google Play Music (storing your entire collection - at least up to 20,000 songs for free - in the cloud), Slacker, etc. They can be played in the background natively (the speakers are good but not great), or over speakers via wired or Bluetooth connections. The battery life is about six to eight hours, in my experience, based on use and what apps you have currently running.
Weirdly, the Nexus 5 is also very good for PDF reading, at least in landscape mode. I was shocked at how easy to read it was, even with three-column texts.
Quote from: RPGPundit;751474I freaking love my Nexus.
I like my Nexus 7 a lot. Before that, I had a Nook Tablet (the pre-HD one.) Haven't tried an iPad, so I can't comment on OS differences. But I can tell you this: GET A TEN-INCH TABLET. The 7-inch tablets are fine for many things, but it would be a lot easier to read PDFs on a 10-inch.
If you are going Android, though, I think you definitely want a Nexus, because other manufacturers add so many encumbrances to the OS to make it do *only* what they want you to do.