Quote from: flyingmice;803048My votes? Classic Traveller was my first love, but I haven't touched it in years. Now Hard Nova II and Diaspora are my current loves. I love Shatterzone's setting, but I'm not yet comfortable with the system. Won't bother naming my own SF games.

Thanks for the mention, clash. I would be hard-pressed to claim that Diaspora was the best sf game of all time since I haven't played all of the other sf games (many, perhaps, but not even most) and I think that personal taste makes any such distinction a little bizarre without some sort of objective qualification (most player-hours maybe)?

But without a doubt Classic Traveller has had the most hours of play at my table, though in part because it's been around so damned long. Diaspora is a close second.

Quote from: David Johansen;806377The problem with Fading Suns is that the system really needs to match the premise, which is that the road to power is the ultimate corruption of the individual.  You can't just bolt on BRP and get that to work right.  You also need shields that make swords the favored military weapon.  Admittedly you can build all these effects in GURPS or HERO but somehow that defeats the very purpose.

I'm sure someone will point at Sorcerer or Dogs in the Vineyard and there's probably some validity in that but I think the complication of the different paths of power derail games of that sort where the economy is corruption for power.

I think a d6 variant might be the best option, with dark side point accumulation tying into the various fatal flaws.

Isn't it the case that Fading Suns is a typical White Wolf product being developed by two writers who wrote Mage the Ascension (and also Awakening)? I mean you have a very political setting with a lot of different factions, who like who and who doesn't is really important and there is a clunky system that goes with it.

Sure, but the dark sides of the various powers are pretty core to the idea of the setting.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;809073Isn't it the case that Fading Suns is a typical White Wolf product being developed by two writers who wrote Mage the Ascension (and also Awakening)? I mean you have a very political setting with a lot of different factions, who like who and who doesn't is really important and there is a clunky system that goes with it.

I wasn't aware of a connection between Holistic Design and White Wolf, but it seems you are correct in that Bill Bridges was a big designer/writer on a lot of WW products, and is the driving force behind FS.

But unless you are declaring factionalized, politicized settings to be anathema inherently, or at least the signal failure of WW products, then I fail to see the relationship.

The setting is essentially Mideval In Space, with noble houses, guilds and a powerful church, plus a bunch of dirty  stupid peasants no one cares about.  It SHOULD be highly factional and political.   It makes a very nice alternative to Dune, should you (like me) not feel like spending 300 dollars on a mediocre game system.  Dune was also highly factional and political.

System wise? Not terribly clunky.  Slightly counter-intuitive, but compared to the monster piles of dice and occasionally bizzare rules that ran counter to observable reality (the deadliest gun being a .22 pistol due to accuracy bonuses, the weakest being the 44 mag (in both cases assume something similar to the more common calibers used), due to its (perceived?) inaccuracy).

FS, at least as of 2nd Ed (I've not purchased anything for 3e, which I believe is the current one), was a simple d20 roll. The trick of it was you wanted to roll both under your target number/DC, but as high as possible.

That's it. One major change from simply calling it a 'roll under' system and people got all flustered an called it clunky.

Quote from: danskmacabre;809061My first Scifi RPG experience was Traveller, which I didn't particularly enjoy.
Actually, it turned me off Scifi RPGs for a while and it wasn't until I got Spacemaster a few years later (I'd been playing and running Rolemaster for some years already)  that I tried Scifi RPGs again and Spacemaster really hit the spot with me and my players.

A bad first experience is just as formative as a good first experience.

Quote from: David Johansen;806415Go read the Hubris chart in second edition and then ask yourself why the suns are fading in the first place.

I have.  I see no relationship between the entirely abstracted 'Fading Suns phenomenon' and the Hubris chart that doesn't require making some serious assumptions and having a particularly cynical view of the religious.

That is to say: I can only assume that you believe the Church of the Pancreator has sufficient members with a Hubris of 10 that instead of simply wiping out the worlds they occupy, their Hubris(Hubrii?) are working together to simply exterminate the human occupied portion of the galaxy.  An interesting theory, but very shaky ground to say the primary theme of Fading Suns is that Power Corrupts.

Further: Drawing only from the Hubris chart, or for that matter adding in the Urge chart hardly suggests that "power" corrupts, but "Magic Power". there is no such corruption chart for being a simple, if cruel and vile, Noble. Likewise, genetic mutations (as a Power), or Cybernetics (physical/technological power) doesn't 'corrupt', though it does alienate, or rather requires one to have a mindset distinct from the normal human mind. However, this is given no more of a value judgement than the difference between being an Introvert or an Extrovert.

Quote from: Spike;809098A bad first experience is just as formative as a good first experience.

Very true, it could have been the GM, rather than the system, however I did sit in on a few Traveller sessions that friends were running over the years around then as well.
But I generally only stayed for one session as it just didn't grab me.
The whole Traveller premise seemed drab and boring to me.
The mechanics weren't very interesting either.
I also didn't like no character progression and no Psionics.

I'm not saying Traveller is a bad system, it's just not to my tastes.
I appreciate it has a big fanbase and is often considered the grand-daddy of Scifi RPGs, as DnD is often considered the Grand-daddy of Fantasy RPGs.

Quote from: danskmacabre;809113The whole Traveller premise seemed drab and boring to me.

Slugthrowers and sandcasters never clicked for me. But the rest of it was cool in a 1950s sci-fi setting way. Though I really wanted 3D spacial movement.

QuoteI also didn't like no character progression and no Psionics.

No character progression is not to everyone's tastes. Though I thought Traveller did have psionics - at least for one of the humaniod species.

QuoteI'm not saying Traveller is a bad system, it's just not to me tastes.

Which is rare enough that it is worth saying "thanks for that."

Quote from: Bren;809115Though I thought Traveller did have psionics - at least for one of the humaniod species.

The Zhodani (one of the human races) are all psionic to some degree naturally. It is genetic.

Anyone can be psionic... They just need to be tested for their psionic potential, and then trained in the use psionics...

Traveller Book 3 page 38

The Psionics Institute

Because the Institute does not advertise its existence, it is quite difficult to locate its facilities. Any world with a population of 9+ may have a branch established on it (Throw 11+ for a branch to exist; DM +1 per level of population above 9.

Branches of the Institute perform two functions: They administer the examination for psionic potential, and they provide training in the use of psionic talents.

Each character has a basic potential defined by a two dice throw. Age constantly lessons this potential however...

Quote from: GameDaddy;809132The Zhodani (one of the human races) are all psionic to some degree naturally. It is genetic.

Anyone can be psionic... They just need to be tested for their psionic potential, and then trained in the use psionics...

Traveller Book 3 page 38

The Psionics Institute

Because the Institute does not advertise its existence, it is quite difficult to locate its facilities. Any world with a population of 9+ may have a branch established on it (Throw 11+ for a branch to exist; DM +1 per level of population above 9.

Branches of the Institute perform two functions: They administer the examination for psionic potential, and they provide training in the use of psionic talents.

Each character has a basic potential defined by a two dice throw. Age constantly lessons this potential however...

Nice to know that the little grey cells are still in working order. And thanks for the citation.

There wasn't any psionics when I played it., But then I didn't have any of the books.
Perhaps the people I played with didn't have that book or they didn't want to use Psionics, I dunno.
It may have made it more interesting for me if they had.

Quote from: Bren;809115Slugthrowers and sandcasters never clicked for me. But the rest of it was cool in a 1950s sci-fi setting way. Though I really wanted 3D spacial movement.

No character progression is not to everyone's tastes. Though I thought Traveller did have psionics - at least for one of the humaniod species.

Which is rare enough that it is worth saying "thanks for that."

Yes, it's probably a game style preference and thanks for taking the time to clarify some things and you're welcome.

Quote from: GameDaddy;809132The Zhodani (one of the human races) are all psionic to some degree naturally. It is genetic.

Anyone can be psionic... They just need to be tested for their psionic potential, and then trained in the use psionics...

Traveller Book 3 page 38

The Psionics Institute

Because the Institute does not advertise its existence, it is quite difficult to locate its facilities. Any world with a population of 9+ may have a branch established on it (Throw 11+ for a branch to exist; DM +1 per level of population above 9.

Branches of the Institute perform two functions: They administer the examination for psionic potential, and they provide training in the use of psionic talents.

Each character has a basic potential defined by a two dice throw. Age constantly lessons this potential however...

OK that's interesting. SO you had to buy a specific book for Psionics.
Ah yeah, I vaguely remember a lot of the content was modularised into separate books.

Quote from: danskmacabre;809161OK that's interesting. SO you had to buy a specific book for Psionics.
Ah yeah, I vaguely remember a lot of the content was modularised into separate books.

Traveller Book 3 was one of the three books in the original boxed set.  It was baseline.

Quote from: Panzerkraken;809162Traveller Book 3 was one of the three books in the original boxed set.  It was baseline.

Oh ok..

Hmm, on a sort of related note..  I miss boxed sets..