I'm pretty sure the best fantasy, on this site at least, would be D&D hands down. It would only be a question of which edition, perhaps.
But what about sci-fi? Is it going to be Traveller (I'm guessing probably)? Or is there some other choice?
What SF RPG do you think, of all those ever made, was the very best? Note that this is across all SF genres, for 'overall best', it doesn't matter whether it was space opera or hard sf or whatever.
Just for practicality's sake, let's assume Sci-fi here means "part of the setting is in outer space", so purely post-apocalyptic games don't count (unless its p-a in space!), nor do most 'cyberpunk' type games (again, unless its cyberpunk-in-space).
RPGPundit
Traveller specifically Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller which is effectively a modernized and cleaned up version of classic. Mongoose even returned Traveller back to its roots of a general sci-fi RPG rather than the RPG rules for the Third Imperium that the other editions come off as.
Beyond Traveller there are is a wealth of setting specific systems probably the best and more popular was WEGS D6 system for Star Wars the Roleplaying Game.
As for general Sci-fi there is Star Hero for Hero System, GURPS Space, TSR's Alternity which wasn't bad but was the wrong RPG at the wrong time. But all of these never achieved the lasting fame and durability of Traveller.
I'm going to nominate (or back) GURPS Space, though not because it's necessarily the best to play, but because GURPS Space is a sourcebook I'd recommend ANYONE doing multi-star system scifi games (or writing!) to buy.
Quote from: Will;801939I'm going to nominate (or back) GURPS Space, though not because it's necessarily the best to play, but because GURPS Space is a sourcebook I'd recommend ANYONE doing multi-star system scifi games (or writing!) to buy.
GURPS Spaceships is pretty nifty as well. It is a well designed modular system that is easy to use.
Traveller has some history in its favor... Other games potentially in the running for me would be WEG D6 Star Wars, either Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear or Jovian Chronicles, with maybe the crown going to the shockingly great Stars Without Number.
In the end, WEG D6 Star Wars is just Star Wars. The Dream Pod 9 games I still love, with Jovian Chronicles in particular easy to imagine minus the Mecha angle and adapted to other settings. I've come to prefer SWN over Traveller across the board. It can do Mecha Anime, it can do Cyberpunk, it can do Alien... SWN is just way more flexible than I originally imagined it would be and has tools to aid in the generation of your own kind of Sci-Fi setting in the way the other games do not (though Traveller comes closest).
For some reason, my mind rebels a bit at the idea of a game with a D&D chassis, classes and rolled attributes would be the best Sci-Fi game... but I guess I'm saying that the best Sci-Fi game is D&D.
I've actually been contemplating making a 5e D&D SciFi game, though I've put it on a back burner until I can ruminate over the system more.
Adventures on Dungeon Planet is really nifty and looks like it does its job really nicely.
Of course, all of this depends very very heavily on your tastes.
If I could have only one I'd probably go with Classic Traveller. I don't know what it is about those little black books but they just send my brain straight to that mindset where all sorts of classic scifi yarns start spinning themselves out and I'm sure I could play it till doomsday.
Double plus better if I can take the GURPS sourcebooks along as reference.
That said I doubt I'd play in the OTU... and go with my own, similarly flavored, homebrew instead.
It may be heresy but apparently I'm the only one who doesn't like the original Traveller. I purchased most, if not all of the books back in the early 80's and read through them but the game never excited me. It always seemed to be half of a game, like much was being left unsaid. The characters seemed limited, the adventures weren't too exciting. I spent a dozen hours going through the space ship design book and the best I could do came out 90% like one in another book, just overly complicated and restrictive.
I liked some of the ideas in Traveller, such as the way planets were described and laid out. The Imperium was huge and interesting. The Ancients were alright but the book detailing who and what they were ruined them for me, I just didn't like that final answer.
I kept trying with that game, I knew it was popular and got good press. I kept thinking one more book would bring it all together for me. But it never gelled correctly. Maybe someday I'll try a new version of it. Maybe.
Star Frontiers I had fun with. It's not perfect but it works. I gotta try new games.
I like the original Traveller, but at least back in the day as a kid, Star Frontiers was so much more fun to play.
Traveller is kind of dry as a setting. And as a game, your characters really only get worse rather than improve (since they age or go broke).
Buck Rogers (the first one, not the later adventure game) was basically D&D in space, with a d100% skill system where you'd multiple the skill by the difficulty (like 1/4 or 1/2 for difficult stuff, 2x for easy stuff).
But I'd really go with Star Wars d6.
MonTraveller or Stars Without Number.
For me, the best Sci-Fi RPG is Rifts, especially the Phase World setting. And when I think about it, I'm probably more comfortable with the Palladium system than the D20 system.
Classic and Mongoose Traveller for me.
Love old school (WEG D6) Star Wars, love Stars Without Number, played the hell out of GURPS Space and love the Eclipse Phase setting. But Traveller is slick as fuck.
Quote from: yabaziou;801962For me, the best Sci-Fi RPG is Rifts, especially the Phase World setting. And when I think about it, I'm probably more comfortable with the Palladium system than the D20 system.
Phase World's gonzo space opera does (United Warlock Worlds!) have its charm, though I'd be loath to call it SF. ;)
And yeah, I too feel Palladium is easier to manage than d20, except for character creation.
I feel that Space Opera is more a subset of the Sci-fi genre that a separate genre, I will concurr that the biggest hurdle in the Palladium system is its character creation, something that could been easily improve with an exeample.
I also find Ashen Stars very interesting, even if I prefer Phase World. With the 1st two books, you can build a campaign that lasts a lifetime !
This is a tough one.
Classic Traveller is an easy but wrong answer. While it is still the definitive space opera RPG the Mongoose Traveller is simply best iteration of Traveller rules set. Rules are well written and easy to understand.
Universe by SPI is easily best Science fiction rules set ever done (if picked straight from the box). It perfectly captures the sense of popular science fiction of its era (strange planets and animals) and it is from rules standpoint both very complete set and it totally outdoes Classic Traveller in every level it covers. Unfortunately it would also require some rewriting for modern audiences (especially character creation) and it is also limited compared to Traveller in its default universe (or lack of it). If only SPI had written more Universe material...
Thus choice between Mongoose Traveller and SPI Universe is the real point of discussion here. In my view the Mongoose wins because I generally stress my sappy romance of the setting over rules completeness.
Traveller (Classic/Mongoose, then T4, and then the rest)
d6 WEG Star Wars(Revised & Expanded, Second Edition, and then the First)
Mekton(Zeta/II, and then the Original)
Of course, I'm biased.....
Traveller (any edition)
D6 Star Wars
then it gets difficult..
Star Frontiers: Still one of my favorite SF RPGs for its nearly hard SF style. Ignore the art which ignores the game and go.
Universe: If only because it has one of the most robust system generation systems Ive seen.
the original Albedo: Aside from the non-human cast its one of the better hard fiction games out there. Avoid "platinum edition" like the plague.
Another vote for D6 star wars. It got so much right! Even as I moved to 2nd ed and Revised and Expanded, one thing from the first edition that I prefer (and use) is starship speed being expressed in dice rather than a static number. So much better for running chase scenes!
I want to say Traveller, although I feel handicapped a little by not having played all the other contenders. (Never played Star Wars for instance. :eek:)
I actually have a soft spot for Spacemaster, but... a soft spot doesn't mean best. :)
Stars Without Number has the best back end for GM tools I've seen, but class-and-level does nothing for me in sci fi. It strikes me as a weird that a game explicitly built to let you use D&D monsters and dungeons in space gets praised for serious sci fi, but the praise seems sincere, so I just have to conclude people are seeing something I don't.
I really can't answer this question... I suppose that's a good thing for SF RPGs, that there are so many good ones.
However, the "Best SF RPG that you have never heard of" would be Humanspace Empires. Second place in this category would be Machinations of the Space Princess.
Quote from: RPGPundit;801934What SF RPG do you think, of all those ever made, was the very best? Note that this is across all SF genres, for 'overall best', it doesn't matter whether it was space opera or hard sf or whatever.
I would rate a few editions of Traveller as the
very best Scifi Rpgs. Classic Traveller, MegaTraveller, and (to a much lesser extent) Mongoose Traveller.
Some others I would rate highly:
- Jovian Chronicles/Heavy Gear - I'm not really a fan of mecha, but I enjoy both DP9 settings. I also have a soft spot for the Silhouette system. I have yet to run JC, but I ran HG about 10 years ago and had a great time.
- Blue Planet v2 - brilliant, well-developed setting; interesting game system. Frankly, the best published Scifi Rpg setting I've ever read.
- Star Frontiers - I've loved this Rpg since I first bought it around 1982. Just a blast to play, with a few good published adventures.
Classic Traveller (though I only played it as a kid), then Star Frontiers (again only played it as a kid), then D20 Future. I have never played Star Wars however, so I do not doubt that would beat something like d20 Future.
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;801999I really can't answer this question... I suppose that's a good thing for SF RPGs, that there are so many good ones.
However, the "Best SF RPG that you have never heard of" would be Humanspace Empires. Second place in this category would be Machinations of the Space Princess.
Two great entries! We all seem to remember only SWN when "OSR SF RPGs" comes up but these two rock.
I'll also throw in Hulks & Horrors as the best "D&D in Space" (as in, D&D's premise, not just system) game out there. SWN is a better toolkit but H&H is refreshingly quirky and soft-SF-ish about it.
FGU's Space Opera would have got my vote if the quality of game systems had been a match for the scope of elements. As in the ads for a spaghetti sauce, "It's in there!" was the answer to almost any classic space-opera gadget, creature, etc., one might think of.
Unfortunately, the rules were a spaghetti-noodle snarl of design by a commitee in which the left hand really did not know what the right hand was doing. Once one figured out character generation, it was so complex and time consuming, I expect a lot of people just gave up on actual play - though as I recall that was much easier.
Building starships and playing out battles was a snap, though, and almost perfectly captured the inertialess action of Doc Smith's Lensmen saga.
Quote from: Will;801939I'm going to nominate (or back) GURPS Space, though not because it's necessarily the best to play, but because GURPS Space is a sourcebook I'd recommend ANYONE doing multi-star system scifi games (or writing!) to buy.
Same here, though I'm not acquainted with editions beyond the first two (iirc). The earlier Humanx book is great for fans of Foster's novels, but Space is an all-round resource. Some minor errors may have been corrected in later editions.
GDW's 2300 AD line impressed me with its setting. The planet books were very vivid, and like the whole line were better grounded in science/engineering fact and speculation than usual for games.
The mechanics seemed a bit offputting to me at first, but quickly became easy to use.
Blue Planet is a game I admired from what I saw of it in the store, but I never got more fully acquainted with it.
I actually wrote for Blue Planet (Natural Selection), but I wasn't very fond of the system. Fun setting and material, though.
Speaking of FFG games, Dragonstar also has a fun premise -- literally D&D in space. Again, I thought the system was weak (it basically stuck guns into D&D without adjustment), but the ideas are fun.
(I also contributed to Imperial Supply)
As adaptations from other media, Chaosium's Ringworld, FASA's Star Trek and West End's Star Wars are outstanding. My favorite of those is Ringworld. It is for the most part an excellent rendition of Niven's Known Space (Chaosium's additions being of variable quality).
For sheer influence, West End takes the prize for the game's contributions to later SW canon.
From a critical standpoint, I'd have to say there are a lot of really good games out there -- Ringworld is oft-forgotten but deserves props, WEG Star Wars is incredible, Traveler is a classic for a reason. I love Blue Planet and Eclipse Phase.
But my heart says Fading Suns. It's the Glorantha of sci-fi settings. I ran a couple of my best campaigns ever with it. It's just my fave. System wonkiness, and the fact that the current license-holders have done nearly nothing with it aside, it's been so good to me, I have to give it the respect it deserves.
I don't think there is a credible challenger to Classic Traveller. I accept that Mongoose did an excellent job revising and republishing this material, but in my book that doesn't make it better than the original. Particularly considering how well the original holds up on its own.
There are other great scifi roleplaying games, but none have Traveller's scope and flexibility. And, it is the only scifi rpg that really 'gets' the intent behind campaigns in table top roleplaying. Traveller clearly aims to have players make long term plans and seize control of the arc of the campaign. In my mind, that is the pinnacle of table top role playing.
1. Alternity using the Star*Drive setting. This setting was magnificent. Lot's of fun details in there.
2. GURPS Traveller. Crunchy and interesting. I still don't dig the setting much, I always kibbled my own thing out of it. :-)
Honorable mention: Mercenary Breed by Mystic Throne Entertainment for the Legend system. I haven't played yet, but I'm currently running a Legend game, so it could be fun.
Honorable mention 2: HARP Sci-fi. I'm digging HARP after I realized I was running it wrong. :-) Has a generic and useful setting baked in that handles the space opera thing without being cumbersome. Haven't tried it yet, but I'm prepping an adventure for a local Con, so I will be play-testing it soon.
1. Star Frontiers. My first and still favorite sf rpg.
2. Mongoose Traveller. Everything you need in one small book. All other books are just options.
Like just about everybody here, there's multiple games I count as being "the best of all time" for a variety of reasons...
The ProgenitorsFor me these games were the Big Bang of the genre and related subgenres in RPGs...
- Classic Traveller
- Gamma World
- Star Frontiers
- Mekton/Mekton II/MZ
- Cyberpunk 2013 and 2020
- Shadowrun
Old School Next GenerationThese are - for me - representative of the old school revival in SF games. In my opinion, Mongoose Traveller pretty much outranks SWN in that it has made the best come back through the OGL...
- Mongoose Traveller
- Stars Without Number
Most Accessible and Greatest of All TimeD6 Star Wars has a lot going for it in my estimation, and I confess that I'm biased with regard to this game. I grew up with Star Wars and this was the game that got me back into RPGs. D6 Star Wars has an easy to learn system tied to one of the most recognizable settings. Just grab the rulebook, pencils, paper, steal the dice out of your family's boardgames and *BOOM* - you're ready to go. It's because of all these things that it's the greatest of all time for me.
- D6 Star Wars (all editions)
Later!
Harl
Quote from: trechriron;8020401. Alternity using the Star*Drive setting. This setting was magnificent. Lot's of fun details in there.
One thing I noticed was that the background for the Bughunters Amazing Engine setting fit rather neatly into the Star*Drive setting's history. Bughunters worked really well with the clone soldiers being the Union of Sol's dark secret... Even the boundaries of human space fit neatly within the borders of the Union of Sol on the Star*Drive map. :cool:
Later,
Harl
I'm going to go with WEG D6 Star Wars too. I'm not even that big a Star Wars fan but it was the first game system I came across that I found I could really relate to, a game that shared the same priorities as I did. These days I think there are quite a few games in that mold (medium-light rules, cinematic and character-centric) but at the time it felt very fresh and different to me.
Even now I still feel the 1st edition is the ideal introductory, full, non-crippleware roleplaying game ever made.
I'm also really like Bulldogs! (Fate edition) but takes bit more work.
The answer should be the 40k games, as WFRP is the best fantasy system, and they're that, just in space.
The answer is not the 40k games, as they are bad.
So the answer is SWN or Star Wars 1e.
I've never really liked any flavor of Traveller. It seemed very dry and boring to me.
That and no real character progression.
I loved the character gen though.
I ran Spacemaster for some years and had many, if not all of the supplements for it, including Star Strike (space combat, building ships etc) and armored assault (ground combat and building ground based vehicles).
That and the immensely rich background material and the rich descriptive combat system, psionics etc, it would probably be my favourite SF RPG.
Still, you need a fair amount of time and the right players for it as well, as being a derivative of Rolemaster, you're going to like it or hate it.
I would say a VERY close second is Stars without number.
It seems a very simple system as first and it IS to run and work with.
But the huge amount of background material and additional material in general makes it a great Scifi RPG to run.
That and characters actually do develop and progress, albeit pretty slowly. The levelling is pretty slow, but that's good really as the game isn't really about levelling per se.
If I were to run an Scifi RPG now again and I had a choice of Spacemaster vs SWN, SWN would win hands down now as it's just quicker to run and play.
I would miss the SM crits though, I had some hilarious times with those! :D
I'm new but I'll chime in. The best...at least in terms of which ones I've played and love the most...are Fading Suns (wonky-ish system, but it works), Star Frontiers (need I say anything more?) and FFG's Star Wars* (sure the dice are funny, but it really captures Star Wars for me). Sadly, I've no experience with Traveller but I've heard amazing things about it.
*can it be argued that Star Wars is too space opera and not sci-fi enough?
To add, I love WH40K's setting but the rules make me consider playing Exalted... ;)
This thread makes me wish I had the chance to play more sci-fi games over the years. There were all too brief experiences with Star Frontiers, Star Wars and Star Trek- but nothing more than a game, maybe two.
My definite favorites would be Star Frontiers, and GURPS Space. I really like Mekton Zeta and Mon Traveller. But have as yet to run either for the group. I can definitely see why Trav is a big fave of folks.
Well, my personal favorite is Spacemaster Privateers but as it makes Traveller 5 look well organized and edited I'll admit a certain amount of bias for any sf game where lightsabers can take off limbs with crits in the low A range. Good thing the medical tech is a match for the damage output and pcs who hate playing medics can just buy / hire a medical android.
Still, its scope is nearly as great as T5s, though we never got world or creature generation (robots, vehicles, aliens, yes, and worlds are in SM2) and it's more mechanically sound. The setting was under developed but fun.
Anyhow since we're letting that slide, I'll vote for Star Cluster 3 which is deeply developed and has great scope.
Much like D&D, Traveller has always managed to let me down. I love Traveller for what it wants to be but every edition and version is tragically flawed in some way.
Going with Best in terms of most successful commercially, I am going to say none. At least in a way that is comparable with D&D for fantasy, as no Sci-Fi RPG had had the kind of continuity and consistency of D&D.
For older RPGs, the contenders are:
- Traveller certainly has the heritage but it has had a very shaky run compared to D&D.
- Star Wars D6 is also a contender but has nowhere the longevity of D&D or Traveller.
For newer RPGs, the contenders are:
- FFG's WH40KRP
- Star Wars D20 and FFG's Edge of the Empire/Age of Rebellion/Force and Destiny
About the only way you can find something comparable to is if you included all iterations of Star Wars RPGs (and TBH they are probably as cohesive entry as all editions of D&D are) :)
Quote from: David Johansen;802104Well, my personal favorite is Spacemaster Privateers but as it makes Traveller 5 look well organized and edited I'll admit a certain amount of bias for any sf game where lightsabers can take off limbs with crits in the low A range. Good thing the medical tech is a match for the damage output and pcs who hate playing medics can just buy / hire a medical android.
Still, its scope is nearly as great as T5s, though we never got world or creature generation (robots, vehicles, aliens, yes, and worlds are in SM2) and it's more mechanically sound. The setting was under developed but fun.
Anyhow since we're letting that slide, I'll vote for Star Cluster 3 which is deeply developed and has great scope.
Much like D&D, Traveller has always managed to let me down. I love Traveller for what it wants to be but every edition and version is tragically flawed in some way.
It's not the greatest, but T5 (once you click into its mode of thinking) is quite nice. Yes, yes, yes it needs and is getting patched up post-release, but the way the planets are generated oozes plot hooks to me. I expect, if I went back through my CT books and MgT book I could do something similar. But as it is the only one I have actually spent time going through it has stuff that jumps out. Some might, for example, feel limited by the choices of sector capital and why is has certain gravity or resources or whatever, but these speak to me of populations finding and making solutions and trying to survive in strange environments.
So, honourable mention to the latest Traveller (not including Liftoff, the MgT intro system)
The thing about T5 is that it's 90% of the way there. The ten percent that's missing is mostly descriptive text, explanations, and cross referencing. It's great but it struggles in play. Yes, I've played and run T5.
I'm mainly mad that they won't get to the errata and patches before I die of old age, let alone Marc and Don. It's been a very frustrating process. I love where they're going but the progress is painfully slow.
And I still like SPAM better.
It's odd to see so many people mentioning Spacemaster... it always seemed an outlier to me that I never heard much mention of or read articles about.
That, even though I had/have most all the books for it and was particularly fond of Dark Space and Cyberspace (as valuable idea mines).
My initial interest in Spacemaster was thinking it was somehow related to the Silent Death miniatures game... which it might have been but not really.
Quote from: Simlasa;802136My initial interest in Spacemaster was thinking it was somehow related to the Silent Death miniatures game... which it might have been but not really.
It is - at least the original Spacemaster - not Privateers - is. All the noble houses, like Kashmere, Colos, etc. line up. Silent Death's universe is pretty much the Spacemaster universe one or more centuries later with a different starship combat system and new enemies.
Later!
Harl
The thing is, that the Spacemaster fans liked the developments in Silent Death the New Millennium about as well as Traveller fans liked the developments in Traveller the New Era. Which is to say, not at all. Sure it was a setting collapse by a bug race that turned out to be everywhere instead of years of civil war followed by weaponized sentient computer chip-like organisms.
It's interesting to note that Traveller and Spacemaster are both imperial sf but the settings couldn't be more different. Spacemaster's take is much closer to Dune by way of Starwars than Traveller's Foundation + H Beam Piper that occasionally looks a bit like Starwars if you squint really hard.
Spacemaster Privateers is a totally different setting, in which precursors spread the same seven races over a large area of space. Each race is very specialized and eventually two starfaring nations emerge. One, a healthy democracy and the other a psychotic empire, when they meet, hijinks ensue. A bit contrived perhaps, but well set up to get right in and play, sure the aliens aren't very alien and are very stereotypical but you can tell a new player "You're a knightly wolf man fighting to free your people from the evil cat people." and they get it right away.
Quote from: RPGPundit;801934What SF RPG do you think, of all those ever made, was the very best?
Traveller. It's just a matter of deciding which version to use.
Quote from: Simlasa;802136It's odd to see so many people mentioning Spacemaster... it always seemed an outlier to me that I never heard much mention of or read articles about.
From my POV, in the 80s and 90s, Spacemaster was pretty high profile in the RPG shops.
They always had it in stock and they kept new stuff coming in.
I'll buck the trend and cast my vote for 1st ed Paranoia. We actually played it more than Traveller.
Personally, I really enjoy HardNova II and Thousand Suns Revised. What I've seen of D101 Games' Kickstarted hard scifi game for OpenQuest River of Heaven also looks good and I'm really eager to see what DwD Studios will come up with for FrontierSpace.
But just from reading Mongoose Traveller, I can see why that would probably be the best scifi game, especially with regard to its versatility.
Quote from: 3rik;802241What I've seen of D101 Games' Kickstarted hard scifi game for OpenQuest River of Heaven also looks good and I'm really eager to see what DwD Studios will come up with for FrontierSpace.
Yeah, RoH does looks good, and I'm hoping that it gets some solid support.
FrontierSpace has been a long time coming. Been a few years since I first read about it. I've stopped holding my breath on that one.
Blue Planet v2 from FFG gets my vote, for its excellent setting and easy to use system.
Transhuman Space featured some absolutely amazing worldbuilding, but I can't enjoy gurps. Really, I tried. I give it a solid 2nd place.
#1 - Classic Traveller, for "hard" old-school SF adventuring.
#1A - Star Ace, for over-the-top Space Opera action and adventure. Polar Bears flying starfighters. 'Nuff said.
What a great collection of games. Many of which I have plagued and none of which I would turn down.
Add in some new games like eclipse phase, mind jammer, and diaspora and it's a great field for RPGs.
I would split them between strong settings and toolboxes, but even then, most Spacefaring SF games are toolbox sandbox by necessity.
There's a lot of Star Wars D6 and Classic Traveller mentioned. It's a pretty old crowd around here, isn't it? SW D6, Traveller, TSR D&D, Cthulhu, they are all pretty old games.
Anyway I like Traveller too. My favorites are Fading Suns, Blue Planet and when I want something lighter Slipstream.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;802403There's a lot of Star Wars D6 and Classic Traveller mentioned. It's a pretty old crowd around here, isn't it? SW D6, Traveller, TSR D&D, Cthulhu, they are all pretty old games.
Anyway I like Traveller too. My favorites are Fading Suns, Blue Planet and when I want something lighter Slipstream.
I actually haven't played Traveller, but just from reading the Mongoose edition it does seem like the best choice for a generically usable scifi game that's neither too light, nor too heavy and is still well supported.
I like what I've seen of Blue Planet, but it seems a bit too setting-specific to pass the test.
Actually, personally, if I were going to do SciFi with a published game, I'd probably go Fate.
It has the builder breadth of a game like GURPS or M&M, but without the fiddly details I dislike.
(But I'd still use GURPS Space as a reference, assuming I was doing a multisystem game)
What no love for Space Quest? Innovative – the first game I know of that used a D30. And it used 3D star mapping which games like Traveller and FASA Star Trek totally ignore. And who doesn't love giant space slugs and void sharks as monsters in space!!!.
Seriously though, the games I've played the most* are Traveller, FASA's Star Trek, and WEG Star Wars D6 (2nd and 2RE).
Traveller was the first Sci Fi RPG and the nuts and bolts, technology had a hard science kind of vibe. I had a lot of fun with character and world creation in Traveller, so it has to be in the running. However on the down side, I have always loathed a couple of the name choices in Classic Traveller to whit: "slug thrower" for chemical powered projectiles and "sand caster" for the ship-based anti-laser defense systems. The guy who came up with those names was all out of cleverness and creativity that day.
We had a lot of fun with Star Trek. We used the FASA ships and settings but ignored most of the rules except for the character creation career path. So I can't in good conscience give the nod to FASA Star Trek.
I've played far more WEG Star Wars than the other two systems combined and enjoyed it more. As others have said it was incredibly fun and easy to learn and play. And WEG shaped a lot of the Expanded Universe novels and such that came afterwards. However, in answer to Alderaan Crumbs question, I would argue that Star Wars is fantasy in space much more than it is Sci-Fi.
So, despite my aversion for the dumb ass slugthrowers it's Traveller for the Sci-Fi win.
* I really did play and run Space Quest, but the class based system was a bad version of OD&D in space with D30s substituted for D20s.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;802403There's a lot of Star Wars D6 and Classic Traveller mentioned. It's a pretty old crowd around here, isn't it? SW D6, Traveller, TSR D&D, Cthulhu, they are all pretty old games.
Speak for yourself, I only started playing SW this year. My rulebook is only two months younger than my brother.
Good design, though, doesn't age.
Quote from: Ladybird;802538Speak for yourself, I only started playing SW this year. My rulebook is only two months younger than my brother.
Good design, though, doesn't age.
Yes, but all first editions are from the early eighties. It's not criticism. Just making an observation.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;802593Yes, but all first editions are from the early eighties. It's not criticism. Just making an observation.
They are old games*, but they aren’t all early eighties in fact of the games you mentioned only Call of Cthulu is an early eighties game.
- TSR D&D: 1974
- Traveller: 1977
- Space Quest: 1977
- Call of Cthulhu: 1981 based on Basic Roleplaying: 1981 based on Runequest: 1978
- Ringworld: 1984 based on Basic Roleplaying: 1981 based on Runequest: 1978
- WEG Star Wars D6: 1987
* And yes there are some older gamers here.
Of those I've played, I'd definitely put Stars Without Number at the top. Somewhere below in vague order would be Classic Traveller and Eclipse Phase.
I liked the little bit of Eclipse Phase I got to play... very much... but it doesn't seem like it would be nearly as versatile in the different sorts of scifi it could present as something like Traveller or GURPS Space or Stars Without Number.
I like 2300 AD, and I am not sure there is another one like it. It makes sci-fi gritty, exotic and slightly desperate. I don't care much for its rules, so if I were to run it I'd probably Fudge it, Savage World it or Fate it.
I am intrigued by some of the Spacemaster adventures, War on a distant moon especially.
Quote from: Simlasa;802735I liked the little bit of Eclipse Phase I got to play... very much... but it doesn't seem like it would be nearly as versatile in the different sorts of scifi it could present as something like Traveller or GURPS Space or Stars Without Number.
Very true. I wish I got to play some form of Star Wars--I'm sure I'd enjoy that a great deal :/
Quote from: Mr. Kent;802760Very true. I wish I got to play some form of Star Wars--I'm sure I'd enjoy that a great deal :/
I really liked what I experienced of the D6 Star Wars, mechanically. Sadly the group I played with couldn't think what to do with it except re-enact the original movie... in a kind of jokey way to boot.
Quote from: jahud;802739I like 2300 AD, and I am not sure there is another one like it. It makes sci-fi gritty, exotic and slightly desperate. I don't care much for its rules, so if I were to run it I'd probably Fudge it, Savage World it or Fate it.
The current version of 2300AD from Mongoose uses the
Mongoose Traveller core rules as its engine.
What, no love for Legionnaire? None at all?
Fine... fine... How about Shatterzone?
Still nothing?
Well, I'll raise the stakes with Battlelords of the 23rd Century! Surely that will earn mad street cred!
Phooey. I guess I'll punch in with MongTrav, followed by Fading Suns. But I gotta give honorable mention to Living Steel, though I believe it is disqualified on technical grounds on account of it being 'Post Apocalyptic'... after a fashion.
Wouldn't that disallow Silent Death The Next Millenium and Traveller the New Era?
Rhand ain't earth.
See... no one actually put Silent Death up as a contender. I would have mentioned it in my list of neglected Sci-Fi's, but it had at least gotten mention... and its not much of an RPG, honestly.
I'm still upset that my purchase of some of the supplements (call it the SD:nM version of High Guard...) went instead to some paypal scammers out of the bahamas instead of those guys who apparently own the rights. Not for the loss of money (I would have spent it on Hookers and Blow anyway...), but because now I have no way of getting those books...
Well, there's a new edition coming eventually. Try the Metal Express forums. I tried to pitch an rpg and a skirmish game to Bruce back in the day but he never really got back to me and didn't seem interested. The MX guys are leaning that way but Bruce is still involved so who knows. He's keeping a low profile but he let it slip somewhere, and I was like AHAH!
Anyhow, my point is that post apocalypse in space isn't quite the same genre as post apocalypse on Earth.
Yeah, I tried emailing Metal Express (thanks for reminding me of the name!) back when my books didn't arrive... they didn't answer, and I eventually figured out what happened to my money by backtracking my paypal... which, btw, I am now refusing to use given how hard they probe to verify identities... way too much work to make a simple purchase!!!
Quote from: David Johansen;802842I tried to pitch an rpg and a skirmish game to Bruce back in the day but he never really got back to me and didn't seem interested.
I remember at one point seeing an ad, in an ICE product, for an upcoming skirmish game in the Silent Death setting... had photos of miniatures even. Never appeared and then the company went South.
Last I heard the new team was coming out with a WWII game... which seemed an odd choice.
There were plenty of miniatures on offer at teh Metal Express website, but I imagine buying them would be rather like my buying a book/pdf combo. You'll make some scam artist a bit richer, and the owners of ME would never know you tried...
yeah, X-Decom was the game's name and it was going to use the old Grenadier Space Rangers figures and possibly the Combat Zone miniatures. Both of which are available from EM-4 / Crystal Castle, as are the plastic Silent Death miniatures.
From what you say you got screwed by a scammer not Metal Express but be careful there.
Quote from: David Johansen;802152The thing is, that the Spacemaster fans liked the developments in Silent Death the New Millennium about as well as Traveller fans liked the developments in Traveller the New Era.
I'm a Traveller fan far more than a fan of the "official universe" - which has at most been a barely relevant background when I've used it at all. As such, I approached MT, TNE and T4 simply as rules sets.
TNE impresses me as offering a pretty excellent tool kit for a more detail-oriented game than what I run with Classic. I like it better than GURPS, which would be the leading alternative among the rules sets I have. (One nice thing is the simplicity in large encounters of tossing a single die per figure instead of two or three to add.)
Mongoose Trav with the right supplements is probably also something I would like a lot, but I've not had reason enough yet to spend money on a new rules set.
QuoteWhich is to say, not at all. Sure it was a setting collapse by a bug race that turned out to be everywhere instead of years of civil war followed by weaponized sentient computer chip-like organisms.
It's interesting to note that Traveller and Spacemaster are both imperial sf but the settings couldn't be more different. Spacemaster's take is much closer to Dune by way of Starwars than Traveller's Foundation + H Beam Piper that occasionally looks a bit like Starwars if you squint really hard.
Spacemaster Privateers is a totally different setting, in which precursors spread the same seven races over a large area of space. Each race is very specialized and eventually two starfaring nations emerge. One, a healthy democracy and the other a psychotic empire, when they meet, hijinks ensue. A bit contrived perhaps, but well set up to get right in and play, sure the aliens aren't very alien and are very stereotypical but you can tell a new player "You're a knightly wolf man fighting to free your people from the evil cat people." and they get it right away.
Quote from: Spike;802825Well, I'll raise the stakes with Battlelords of the 23rd Century! Surely that will earn mad street cred!
I've seen that game around, and it looked intriguing, but not enough to buy it. What is it about?
Battlelords? Its a future setting as written by a meth addled metalhead. There are plenty of pop-culture jokes that are disguised, some thinner than others.
System wise its actually fairly functional. The armor rules are fairly creative, detailed without being too clunky. There are insane levels of power available, such as psychics who can 'fold space' for several parsecs, but destroy everything in the middle when they do. There are lots and lots of guns, as I believe the default type of play is 'corporate mercenaries going out and doing violence', sort of the anti-shadowrun.
Races: Humans (pathetic, as written repeatedly by the book)
Sim-Humans (less pathetic, but hung up on being clones)
Orions (Cool human/aliens, with six fingers and a kender's attitude towards life)
Mutzachan (Melon headed psychics)
Space Jello
Two types of lizard, ranging from big and strong and agressive, to bigger, stronger and more aggressive
Asparagus heads (psychic healers and anti-healers)
Space Cats. Four legged, not bipeds.
Um... lemme get my book...
Ah, jeezus, how could I have forgotten!!!
Eridani: Methane breathing space samurai,
and their enemies
Methane breathing octopuses that think humans are delicious, and are treacherous bastards, every one.
There isn't really a lot of rules for things like space ships and and the like, just combat and some roleplaying stuff. Now, as I noted, it really does shine in the combat department, though it is lethal. As a downgrade, Money=Power, as the dangerous 'big guns' are insanely expensive, and the tough armor is likewise. We are talking exponential price increases for power upgrades.
It is, in its own inimitable way, the epitome of early nineties game design.
Battlelords struck me as somewhere between Rifts and Synibarr in terms of silliness.
That's a compliment, BTW.
My votes? Classic Traveller was my first love, but I haven't touched it in years. Now Hard Nova II and Diaspora are my current loves. I love Shatterzone's setting, but I'm not yet comfortable with the system. Won't bother naming my own SF games.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;803048Won't bother naming my own SF games.
-clash
From what I've seen of them they're pretty darn cool. I'm still hoping I can find someone willing to play Lowell Was Right!... who will get how clever that setting is and enjoy it.
From what I remember, you play celebrity reality TV mercenaries.
Quote from: David Johansen;803069From what I remember, you play celebrity reality TV mercenaries.
Smash TV, the paper-and-pencil version?
Quote from: Simlasa;803060From what I've seen of them they're pretty darn cool. I'm still hoping I can find someone willing to play Lowell Was Right!... who will get how clever that setting is and enjoy it.
Thanks, Simlasa! It means the world to hear how much you enjoyed Lowell! :D
I just meant I'm not going to claim anything I do is the best anything. They suit me just fine, but that doesn't make them the best!
-clash
Quote from: jeff37923;802821The current version of 2300AD from Mongoose uses the Mongoose Traveller core rules as its engine.
Oh, so it does. I thought that was the short-lived d20 version and ignored it, but apparently I was wrong. Mongoose is coming out with a whole product line. I need to look into that.
Thanks for the reminder.
Weirdly, while I've played a decent number of games, I've never played any version of Traveller. (Except my friend's homebrew Trav-homage game, which was awesome)
Certainly not the best but I have a soft spot for Ashen Stars, I think of it as a darker version of Star Frontiers.
Otherwise, Star Wars D6 1st edition for the win. A game where you can use words like "TIE Fighter", "Protocol droid", "Stormtrooper" and everyone at the table immediately knows (and "sees") what you are talking about.
RPGs being about shared imagination between players strong visual elements are a big part of what makes a SF setting "click" for me and my group and it is hard to beat Star Wars at this. W40K is the only other SF game line I can see with such a strong visual identity (but I don't have the time/patience to use the system that comes with it).
Quote from: Spike;802999Battlelords? Its a future setting as written by a meth addled metalhead. There are plenty of pop-culture jokes that are disguised, some thinner than others.
...
It is, in its own inimitable way, the epitome of early nineties game design.
Quote from: David Johansen;803069From what I remember, you play celebrity reality TV mercenaries.
So, it's along the same sort of lines as
SLA Industries?
It sounds good, I do love SLA.
When I was a snot-nosed, spazzball teenager in the 80's some older college kids let me play in their game of the (Then new) Traveller: 2300. In retrospect that was very kind and gracious of them.
The GM was world-class and the game's blue-collar, low-tech, Aliens-ish vision of the future seemed cutting-edge, realistic, and adult at the time. It was a complete blast, one of my favorite gaming experiences ever.
Quote from: Ladybird;803197So, it's along the same sort of lines as SLA Industries?
It sounds good, I do love SLA.
Its a lot less grim than SLA Industries, and generally lacks the demigod GMPCs.
Similarly bloody? Oh yeah. Similar play conceit? Absolutely, but utterly opposite in tone.
I haven't read through this thread yet, but the answer is clearly Rifts. Obviously.
Quote from: Majus;804094I haven't read through this thread yet, but the answer is clearly Rifts. Obviously.
After some reluctancy I'm willing to entertain the idea that yes, Rifts is the right answer.
Then again, Rifts is always a good answer.
Quote from: Majus;804094I haven't read through this thread yet, but the answer is clearly Rifts. Obviously.
I was thinking Traveller, but the mention of RIFTS, especially if you include Palladium's Robotech stuff in the bundle, now makes a good challenger.
Three of my favorite scifi RPGs:
(1) Metamorphosis Alpha -- a nifty mix of sci fi and fantasy elements.
(2) Traveller -- those little black books are still a great go-to for standard scifi.
(3) WEG Star Wars -- great for straight scifi as well as cinematic scifi.
No contenders: it's gotta be ICE's Cyberspace for me...the core rules are as complete as you can get for the cyberpunk genre and the system is a Rolemaster lite one, which IMO works perfectly compared to full blown Rolemaster or even MERPS...setting is pretty generic, but fun. Me and my players REALLY love this game!
Quote from: jeff37923;801974Traveller (Classic/Mongoose, then T4, and then the rest)
d6 WEG Star Wars(Revised & Expanded, Second Edition, and then the First)
Mekton(Zeta/II, and then the Original)
Of course, I'm biased.....
I agree with Jeff.
On top of those, Hard Nova 2 is excellent, and two recent games I've been well-impressed by are Hulks & Horrors and Machinations of the Space Princess.
Quote from: Vonn;804386No contenders: it's gotta be ICE's Cyberspace for me...the core rules are as complete as you can get for the cyberpunk genre and the system is a Rolemaster lite one, which IMO works perfectly compared to full blown Rolemaster or even MERPS...setting is pretty generic, but fun. Me and my players REALLY love this game!
But it's a cyberpunk game, right? OP specifically said no cyberpunk, unless it's cyberpunk in space.
Quote from: 3rik;804423But it's a cyberpunk game, right? OP specifically said no cyberpunk, unless it's cyberpunk in space.
You're right...I believe someone else mentioned Cyberspace in this thread, but perhaps in another context...(although I've run at least some adventures in space with Cyberspace!)
Ah well...then I'll choose WEG Star Wars (1e)...still fond memories about my Failed Jedi...
Stars without Number first choice.
Far second Mongoose Traveller or Classic Traveller.
Quote from: Vonn;804431You're right...I believe someone else mentioned Cyberspace in this thread, but perhaps in another context...(although I've run at least some adventures in space with Cyberspace!)
Ah well...then I'll choose WEG Star Wars (1e)...still fond memories about my Failed Jedi...
I must have missed that other mention altogether, hehe. I'm completely unfamiliar with Cyberspace so I was just wondering if perhaps it's cyberpunk in space, but I guess it's not.
For me it is Fading Suns. That's the only SciFi setting I've ever encountered that works 100% for me.
Quote from: 3rik;804436I must have missed that other mention altogether, hehe. I'm completely unfamiliar with Cyberspace so I was just wondering if perhaps it's cyberpunk in space, but I guess it's not.
I have had cyberspace for over twenty years and I can tell you up front that it is not set in any way in space. Its straight up cyberpunk in ICE fashion, and perhaps a bit more gibsonian than Cyberpunk 2020 in tone.
Quote from: Spike;805448I have had cyberspace for over twenty years and I can tell you up front that it is not set in any way in space. Its straight up cyberpunk in ICE fashion, and perhaps a bit more gibsonian than Cyberpunk 2020 in tone.
Favorite bit from this obscure game: The government surrounded Death Valley with a cyclopian wall, turned it into a massive prison, and started dumping criminals there. Then the future-shocked masses and jaded thrill-seekers started showing up at the gates begging to be let in.
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;805474Favorite bit from this obscure game: The government surrounded Death Valley with a cyclopian wall, turned it into a massive prison, and started dumping criminals there. Then the future-shocked masses and jaded thrill-seekers started showing up at the gates begging to be let in.
Ahh... once upon a time I had that supplement/module. I wonder what happened to it?
In retrospect: Its a remarkably clever way to put some Post-Apocalyptic gameplay into your setting without your setting actually needing to be PA.
Quote from: Spike;805477Ahh... once upon a time I had that supplement/module. I wonder what happened to it?
In retrospect: Its a remarkably clever way to put some Post-Apocalyptic gameplay into your setting without your setting actually needing to be PA.
I used to run lots of Spacemaster and I had Cyberspace as well.
I used the Spacemaster rules with Cyberspace and I even ran a Death Valley free Prison campaign for a while.
Good fun, but deadly.
Of all time? Geez... Hard question. I'll have to punk out and give three.
1st Ed. WEG Star Wars, maybe the best written and easiest to learn RPG in my experience (tied with Ghostbusters 1st Ed.). as much fun to read as to play, beautifully illustrated and full of flavor. Loads of fun. That's my sci-fantasy game of choice and probably always will be.
FASA Trek Super fun character generation via "life path." captures the Star Trek feel, at least for the original series (only one I care about). Well supported. Lots of fun to play. Easy to learn.
Original Traveller. Highly adaptable. Well presented. My go-to for "hard" or "retro" sci fi.
Buck Rogers XXVc, obviously. :P Although I really like what I've read of River of Heaven thus far.
I'm curious to find out how many of the answers given here are informed by 'first RPG, or First Sci-Fi RPG played'. I'm certain more than a few are boosted due to general fandom.
Take for example all the people boosting WEG Star Wars. I've always considered that particular game to be a somewhat crapular game system, coupled with absolutely fantastic, non-game, fluff for a very fun and awesome setting... or at least a potentially fun and awesome setting if you ignore the worst examples of Canon... as WEG seemed competent at doing.
But then: By the time I tried it I had gone through two editions of AD&D, GURPS, Shadowrun and a handful of others that mostly escape me (except Synnibar... that one never leaves you... ever...). I was quite familiar with what would become the Masterbook Games (also WEG, as I recall), from TORG and Shatterzone.
In other words, I was somewhat more jaded about game systems, and very familiar with working designs, both good and bad.
Thus I am always somewhat surprised to hear all the praise and desire from gamers for more WEG Starwars type rules, the D6 Space and whatnot.
Of course, it could just be a matter of taste. Maybe I need ketchup to enjoy my WEG Starwars more...
Given that the original Star Wars RPG is actually one of the best designs ever, calling it "crapular" makes me wonder where you're coming from. I've taught it to new players in under 5 minutes, literally, and it works like a charm in practice. What an easily understandable, intuitive system. Now if you are referring to later revisions that overcomplicated the skill lists and had "exploding dice," then I am with you as they took a great system and shat all over it just like they with the changes from Ghostbusters to Ghostbusters International. Yuck.
And if you strip out the Force and rename a skill or two, you can use it for any number of settings. I have done so with great success. Still long to play a Sam
Jones Flash Gordon game with 1st Ed. WEG Star Wars, seems like a great fit, maybe consider some of Ming's mind control or torture stuff to be similar tithe Force. What fun.
First sci fi game I ever played was Star Frontiers, which was all right.
I like the wild die.
But to the other point, I started playing WEG Star Wars 25 or 30 years after I started roleplaying. It was the 4th Sci-Fi system I played. So my love of the system owes nothing to a nostalgia or first love effect.
Best of all time...
I keep reading on many of these types of threads D6 StarWars. I picked up D6Space but I can't understand how it works. I need to play a game with experienced players as it seems I am missing out on something great.
Traveller and Star Frontiers have had a huge following.
But for sheer fun and getting out there and having a blast I've been won over by Barbarians of the Void. It is a Barbarians of Lemuria hack and it is excellent. Easy to put your own setting in. Easy to port setting generation material such as that found in SWN. Easy to run. Easy to transition to and from starship battles.
I've played alot of sci-fi rpgs over the decades. This one is new and works for me! It hit all the good points I like in rpgs and dropped the ones I don't care for and did it very well. So while it isn't well know, it is my Best of all Time pick based on my experiences.
Barbarians of the Void (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106432046/BOL%20Void%202.0.1.pdf)
Here are a few play reports from a gamin I'm running.
Play Reports (http://championsoflemuria.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=128)
Quote from: Bren;805710But to the other point, I started playing WEG Star Wars 25 or 30 years after I started roleplaying. It was the 4th Sci-Fi system I played. So my love of the system owes nothing to a nostalgia or first love effect.
Same here. I had a couple of the sourcebooks but never played until a couple years ago.
Actually, I didn't much enjoy those games of Star Wars because the GM was kindasorta suck but did get to see how nicely the system worked. Simple and fast and not gimmicky. I'd happily play/run it... just not with that group (or hardcore Star Wars fans).
My love of Traveller MIGHT be partly due to my mindset when I first read it... the people I played it with. I'm not sure if I'd react to those LBBs the same way if I first saw them today... but that goes for most everything, games and otherwise. I'm not sure if that's 'nostalgia'.
Quote from: Matt;805664Given that the original Star Wars RPG is actually one of the best designs ever, calling it "crapular" makes me wonder where you're coming from. I've taught it to new players in under 5 minutes, literally, and it works like a charm in practice. What an easily understandable, intuitive system.
I didn't say it was hard to learn or use.
QuoteAnd if you strip out the Force and rename a skill or two, you can use it for any number of settings. I have done so with great success
I find that true of most game systems. In general it isn't what yo uhave to remove to make the game fit a new setting, but what you have to add.
If you want an off the top of my head list of 'problem areas' I can provide one, but it won't be very detailed, and ultimately uninformative.
Quote from: Angelman;805447For me it is Fading Suns. That's the only SciFi setting I've ever encountered that works 100% for me.
Huh. I thought the setting concept was really interesting, but I never really liked the system.
The problem with Fading Suns is that the system really needs to match the premise, which is that the road to power is the ultimate corruption of the individual. You can't just bolt on BRP and get that to work right. You also need shields that make swords the favored military weapon. Admittedly you can build all these effects in GURPS or HERO but somehow that defeats the very purpose.
I'm sure someone will point at Sorcerer or Dogs in the Vineyard and there's probably some validity in that but I think the complication of the different paths of power derail games of that sort where the economy is corruption for power.
I think a d6 variant might be the best option, with dark side point accumulation tying into the various fatal flaws.
Quote from: David Johansen;806377The problem with Fading Suns is that the system really needs to match the premise, which is that the road to power is the ultimate corruption of the individual.
???
Don't get me wrong here, but while I certainly see that corruption and power are both elements of Fading Suns, I really don't see how you decided that this was THE premise of Fading Suns.
Is this a Third Edition thing?
Go read the Hubris chart in second edition and then ask yourself why the suns are fading in the first place.
My favorite SF games would happen to be Robotech and any Rifts Phase world etc setting. I suppose Im jaded I dont Care Much For DnD either. Played it alot when I was in the military but not since then. Gurps is also a Decent game.
Quote from: Spike;805663I'm curious to find out how many of the answers given here are informed by 'first RPG, or First Sci-Fi RPG played'. I'm certain more than a few are boosted due to general fandom.
My first Scifi RPG experience was Traveller, which I didn't particularly enjoy.
Actually, it turned me off Scifi RPGs for a while and it wasn't until I got Spacemaster a few years later (I'd been playing and running Rolemaster for some years already) that I tried Scifi RPGs again and Spacemaster really hit the spot with me and my players.
Quote from: flyingmice;803048My votes? Classic Traveller was my first love, but I haven't touched it in years. Now Hard Nova II and Diaspora are my current loves. I love Shatterzone's setting, but I'm not yet comfortable with the system. Won't bother naming my own SF games.
Thanks for the mention, clash. I would be hard-pressed to claim that
Diaspora was the best sf game of all time since I haven't played all of the other sf games (many, perhaps, but not even most) and I think that personal taste makes any such distinction a little bizarre without some sort of objective qualification (most player-hours maybe)?
But without a doubt
Classic Traveller has had the most hours of play at my table, though in part because it's been around so damned long.
Diaspora is a close second.
Quote from: David Johansen;806377The problem with Fading Suns is that the system really needs to match the premise, which is that the road to power is the ultimate corruption of the individual. You can't just bolt on BRP and get that to work right. You also need shields that make swords the favored military weapon. Admittedly you can build all these effects in GURPS or HERO but somehow that defeats the very purpose.
I'm sure someone will point at Sorcerer or Dogs in the Vineyard and there's probably some validity in that but I think the complication of the different paths of power derail games of that sort where the economy is corruption for power.
I think a d6 variant might be the best option, with dark side point accumulation tying into the various fatal flaws.
Isn't it the case that Fading Suns is a typical White Wolf product being developed by two writers who wrote Mage the Ascension (and also Awakening)? I mean you have a very political setting with a lot of different factions, who like who and who doesn't is really important and there is a clunky system that goes with it.
Sure, but the dark sides of the various powers are pretty core to the idea of the setting.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;809073Isn't it the case that Fading Suns is a typical White Wolf product being developed by two writers who wrote Mage the Ascension (and also Awakening)? I mean you have a very political setting with a lot of different factions, who like who and who doesn't is really important and there is a clunky system that goes with it.
I wasn't aware of a connection between Holistic Design and White Wolf, but it seems you are correct in that Bill Bridges was a big designer/writer on a lot of WW products, and is the driving force behind FS.
But unless you are declaring factionalized, politicized settings to be anathema inherently, or at least the signal failure of WW products, then I fail to see the relationship.
The setting is essentially Mideval In Space, with noble houses, guilds and a powerful church, plus a bunch of dirty stupid peasants no one cares about. It SHOULD be highly factional and political. It makes a very nice alternative to Dune, should you (like me) not feel like spending 300 dollars on a mediocre game system. Dune was also highly factional and political.
System wise? Not terribly clunky. Slightly counter-intuitive, but compared to the monster piles of dice and occasionally bizzare rules that ran counter to observable reality (the deadliest gun being a .22 pistol due to accuracy bonuses, the weakest being the 44 mag (in both cases assume something similar to the more common calibers used), due to its (perceived?) inaccuracy).
FS, at least as of 2nd Ed (I've not purchased anything for 3e, which I believe is the current one), was a simple d20 roll. The trick of it was you wanted to roll both under your target number/DC, but as high as possible.
That's it. One major change from simply calling it a 'roll under' system and people got all flustered an called it clunky.
Quote from: danskmacabre;809061My first Scifi RPG experience was Traveller, which I didn't particularly enjoy.
Actually, it turned me off Scifi RPGs for a while and it wasn't until I got Spacemaster a few years later (I'd been playing and running Rolemaster for some years already) that I tried Scifi RPGs again and Spacemaster really hit the spot with me and my players.
A bad first experience is just as formative as a good first experience.
Quote from: David Johansen;806415Go read the Hubris chart in second edition and then ask yourself why the suns are fading in the first place.
I have. I see no relationship between the entirely abstracted 'Fading Suns phenomenon' and the Hubris chart that doesn't require making some serious assumptions and having a particularly cynical view of the religious.
That is to say: I can only assume that you believe the Church of the Pancreator has sufficient members with a Hubris of 10 that instead of simply wiping out the worlds they occupy, their Hubris(Hubrii?) are working together to simply exterminate the human occupied portion of the galaxy. An interesting theory, but very shaky ground to say the primary theme of Fading Suns is that Power Corrupts.
Further: Drawing only from the Hubris chart, or for that matter adding in the Urge chart hardly suggests that "power" corrupts, but "Magic Power". there is no such corruption chart for being a simple, if cruel and vile, Noble. Likewise, genetic mutations (as a Power), or Cybernetics (physical/technological power) doesn't 'corrupt', though it does alienate, or rather requires one to have a mindset distinct from the normal human mind. However, this is given no more of a value judgement than the difference between being an Introvert or an Extrovert.
Quote from: Spike;809098A bad first experience is just as formative as a good first experience.
Very true, it could have been the GM, rather than the system, however I did sit in on a few Traveller sessions that friends were running over the years around then as well.
But I generally only stayed for one session as it just didn't grab me.
The whole Traveller premise seemed drab and boring to me.
The mechanics weren't very interesting either.
I also didn't like no character progression and no Psionics.
I'm not saying Traveller is a bad system, it's just not to my tastes.
I appreciate it has a big fanbase and is often considered the grand-daddy of Scifi RPGs, as DnD is often considered the Grand-daddy of Fantasy RPGs.
Quote from: danskmacabre;809113The whole Traveller premise seemed drab and boring to me.
Slugthrowers and sandcasters never clicked for me. But the rest of it was cool in a 1950s sci-fi setting way. Though I really wanted 3D spacial movement.
QuoteI also didn't like no character progression and no Psionics.
No character progression is not to everyone's tastes. Though I thought Traveller did have psionics - at least for one of the humaniod species.
QuoteI'm not saying Traveller is a bad system, it's just not to me tastes.
Which is rare enough that it is worth saying "thanks for that." :)
Quote from: Bren;809115Though I thought Traveller did have psionics - at least for one of the humaniod species.
The Zhodani (one of the human races) are all psionic to some degree naturally. It is genetic.
Anyone can be psionic... They just need to be tested for their psionic potential, and then trained in the use psionics...
Traveller Book 3 page 38
The Psionics Institute
Because the Institute does not advertise its existence, it is quite difficult to locate its facilities. Any world with a population of 9+ may have a branch established on it (Throw 11+ for a branch to exist; DM +1 per level of population above 9.
Branches of the Institute perform two functions: They administer the examination for psionic potential, and they provide training in the use of psionic talents.
Each character has a basic potential defined by a two dice throw. Age constantly lessons this potential however...
Quote from: GameDaddy;809132The Zhodani (one of the human races) are all psionic to some degree naturally. It is genetic.
Anyone can be psionic... They just need to be tested for their psionic potential, and then trained in the use psionics...
Traveller Book 3 page 38
The Psionics Institute
Because the Institute does not advertise its existence, it is quite difficult to locate its facilities. Any world with a population of 9+ may have a branch established on it (Throw 11+ for a branch to exist; DM +1 per level of population above 9.
Branches of the Institute perform two functions: They administer the examination for psionic potential, and they provide training in the use of psionic talents.
Each character has a basic potential defined by a two dice throw. Age constantly lessons this potential however...
Nice to know that the little grey cells are still in working order. And thanks for the citation.
There wasn't any psionics when I played it., But then I didn't have any of the books.
Perhaps the people I played with didn't have that book or they didn't want to use Psionics, I dunno.
It may have made it more interesting for me if they had.
Quote from: Bren;809115Slugthrowers and sandcasters never clicked for me. But the rest of it was cool in a 1950s sci-fi setting way. Though I really wanted 3D spacial movement.
No character progression is not to everyone's tastes. Though I thought Traveller did have psionics - at least for one of the humaniod species.
Which is rare enough that it is worth saying "thanks for that." :)
Yes, it's probably a game style preference and thanks for taking the time to clarify some things and you're welcome. :)
Quote from: GameDaddy;809132The Zhodani (one of the human races) are all psionic to some degree naturally. It is genetic.
Anyone can be psionic... They just need to be tested for their psionic potential, and then trained in the use psionics...
Traveller Book 3 page 38
The Psionics Institute
Because the Institute does not advertise its existence, it is quite difficult to locate its facilities. Any world with a population of 9+ may have a branch established on it (Throw 11+ for a branch to exist; DM +1 per level of population above 9.
Branches of the Institute perform two functions: They administer the examination for psionic potential, and they provide training in the use of psionic talents.
Each character has a basic potential defined by a two dice throw. Age constantly lessons this potential however...
OK that's interesting. SO you had to buy a specific book for Psionics.
Ah yeah, I vaguely remember a lot of the content was modularised into separate books.
Quote from: danskmacabre;809161OK that's interesting. SO you had to buy a specific book for Psionics.
Ah yeah, I vaguely remember a lot of the content was modularised into separate books.
Traveller Book 3 was one of the three books in the original boxed set. It was baseline.
Quote from: Panzerkraken;809162Traveller Book 3 was one of the three books in the original boxed set. It was baseline.
Oh ok..
Hmm, on a sort of related note.. I miss boxed sets.. :(
I love scifi, I love RPGs, I love lifepath systems, but I managed to consistently miss Traveller through my gaming career. Closest I've come is a friend's game who made a system that was basically an homage to Trav, but his own thing.
At this point in my life I'd rather use something like Fate or DungeonWorld or D&D5e or whatnot to run something space opera-ish, but I'd still be drawing heavily on second hand info about Traveller. ;)
In one of my sketches of a scifi game, I even went and looked up UWP codes and charts for inspiration.
Reading over Trav again as I get ready for this weekend's new campaign, I certainly would add points to Trav's contender status for the title of this thread.