Quote from: Brad on February 01, 2024, 07:59:23 AM
I went through my games and I have:

Sengoku (looks like the revised edition)
Bushido (FGU)
GURPS Japan
GURPS China
Oriental Adventures (1st...got rid of 3rd couple summers ago)
Land of the Rising Sun
Usagi Yojimbo
Runequest Land of Ninja
Ninjas and Superspies and Mystic China

You should add Palladium Rifter #27 to the list, especially if you like Ninjas and Superspies the best.  That Rifter has the 2nd Edition Palladium Fantasy Samurai, Ninja, Martial Arts Master, and additions to the Warrior Monk already in Fantasy 2E core book. 

Quote from: BadApple on February 01, 2024, 07:44:05 AM

Quote from: WERDNA on February 01, 2024, 12:36:27 AM
Shinobi & Samurai: https://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/7/4/23742956/shinobi__samurai_1.0b.pdf
Whitebox: EA : https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/268199/White-Box-Eastern-Adventures

I also made a big post about Oni in another thread some here may find useful: https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/medieval-authentic-supernatural-lore/15/

Thank you.

I've been looking at as many different Eastern themed games I can get a hold of for how they solve various things.  So far, I've seen a few things worth grabbing so I think it's been worth my time.

I'm sure the cost of "free" might break your bank account. 

On a less sarcastic note, how in the world does anybody who sells RPGs make money when there are literally dozens of alternate games for free? 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 01, 2024, 02:34:41 PM
On a less sarcastic note, how in the world does anybody who sells RPGs make money when there are literally dozens of alternate games for free?

For the same reason Games Workshop stays in business despite the existence of dozens of free alternatives and cheaper model casters.  This hobby is intensely tribal, and for too many their Favourite Game is an emotional crutch.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 01, 2024, 12:56:36 PM
You should add Palladium Rifter #27 to the list, especially if you like Ninjas and Superspies the best.  That Rifter has the 2nd Edition Palladium Fantasy Samurai, Ninja, Martial Arts Master, and additions to the Warrior Monk already in Fantasy 2E core book.

Yeah I have it somewhere I think; not a fan of Palladium 2nd though except as a Rifts sourcebook.

Quote from: daniel_ream on February 01, 2024, 03:20:33 PM
For the same reason Games Workshop stays in business despite the existence of dozens of free alternatives and cheaper model casters.  This hobby is intensely tribal, and for too many their Favourite Game is an emotional crutch.

I will gladly pay for good layout, appropriate art, proofreading, etc. I have no problem giving people money for their work on a game. I have bought all of Pundit's games, for instance, and they're all worth what I paid. Same with Kevin Crawford (don't like the art in Silent Legions that much but whatever). Contrast this with all the late 5th edition D&D stuff I finally ditched. That shit isn't worth free. That said, no one who sells RPGs makes money. Gygax-era TSR is the first time anyone ever got rich off selling RPGs and probably the last, honestly. Pundit might be getting by, but I doubt he's on the waiting list for a luxury yacht.

Quote from: daniel_ream on February 01, 2024, 03:20:33 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 01, 2024, 02:34:41 PM
On a less sarcastic note, how in the world does anybody who sells RPGs make money when there are literally dozens of alternate games for free?

For the same reason Games Workshop stays in business despite the existence of dozens of free alternatives and cheaper model casters.  This hobby is intensely tribal, and for too many their Favourite Game is an emotional crutch.

There might also be the "sunk cost fallacy" angle to consider.

If you pay a lot for something, you will stick with that because you want to get your money's worth out of it.  If you get something for free, then you don't have to give it a lot of time or effort.

I don't opperate that way.  My top games right now are all free ones, with one or two exceptions because I like them.

You're probably right when it comes to RPGs; especially the Forever DMs who spend hundreds of dollars on official books, but then again most of the stuff in there can be easily ported to other systems.  Same with GW; the codexes are a sunk cost but outside of an official tournament no one cares what your minis look like and they're the lion's share of the expense.

One Page Rules seems to be doing quite well, unlike all the various minis-agnostic rules that have come along previously, but I can't tell if they're truly having an impact among GW players or if like FATE they're just popular among a small vocal niche that isn't statistically significant.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 01, 2024, 02:34:41 PM

Quote from: BadApple on February 01, 2024, 07:44:05 AM

Quote from: WERDNA on February 01, 2024, 12:36:27 AM
Shinobi & Samurai: https://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/7/4/23742956/shinobi__samurai_1.0b.pdf
Whitebox: EA : https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/268199/White-Box-Eastern-Adventures

I also made a big post about Oni in another thread some here may find useful: https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/medieval-authentic-supernatural-lore/15/

Thank you.

I've been looking at as many different Eastern themed games I can get a hold of for how they solve various things.  So far, I've seen a few things worth grabbing so I think it's been worth my time.

I'm sure the cost of "free" might break your bank account.

On a less sarcastic note, how in the world does anybody who sells RPGs make money when there are literally dozens of alternate games for free?

It's not my money I'm concerned with, it's my time.  If I'm going to spend the 12 hours to learn a game system, I want it to be worth it. 

None of the best games are free, IMO, though there are some good games that are.  Price tag doesn't demonstrate the quality of a game however.   

Psychology can be hard to predict, and pronouncements are subjective, but I can speak from my own experience.

I have a bunch of free RPGs saved on my hard drive. Most I've never looked at.
I have a bunch of RPGs I paid good money for on my shelves. Many I've never looked at.

I only buy an RPG (or supplement) if I really think I'm going to play it.
I download free RPGs if I think they might someday be of interest or use.

If I have a hard copy (IE paid for) then I'm more likely to pick up that book if I'm considering running something in that genre. I'll only go to the free PDFs if the hard copy doesn't seem ideal.

OTOH I've had free PDFs printed up in hard cover volumes, because I'm quite enthused about them. IE, JAGS Wonderland.

If I run a Conan game I'm going to pick up that free PDF and print it. Probably with some supplemental info from other free resources.

If I run Barsoom, same deal.

I don't think I could draw any useful conclusions from this pile of anecdotes, except that I wouldn't consider that free RPGs are any less likely to see use at my table.

The much greater hurdle any RPG has to overcome is that I play plenty of old-school RPGs that I learned back in the day. New games would have to really be something special for me to even give their reviews a look. It's mostly if they cover a new genre or something that determines whether I'll be at all interested.

Back on topic, I found two bits from Shinobi & Samurai that are interesting.

1.  The classic six ability scores are optional, with NOT using them as the normal way to play.  The game doesn't even have a +/- ability chart for being an 18 vs 3 in your six ability scores.  It just says use them from another game if you choose, but this game doesn't bother.

2.  This one is not in the main book, but the "companion" rules book.  There is an optional, non-Vancian Magic Power Points system for magic instead of Spells Slots per day.  Wizards (Mahotsukai) and Clerics (Sohei) each have a chart of how many spell points they can have, and the level cap of the magic spells they can cast.  If you have 4 spell points, and want to cast a 1st level spell, each cast costs you 1D2 points.  If you don't have enough, you are done, or you can start using hit points instead.

That first one I think I would NOT use.  I like having strong or weak characters.  I do agree that old school "whitebox" levels of bonus and penalties of only +1, 0, or -1 is pretty lame.  I like the more modern -3 to +3 range of ability scores. 

The second one is something I would use.   Mana points are more my style.  But, I also had a though.  Let the wizard or cleric pick which way they want their character to run.  Use both methods in the same game at the same time. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 03, 2024, 07:30:43 PM
Back on topic, I found two bits from Shinobi & Samurai that are interesting.

1.  The classic six ability scores are optional, with NOT using them as the normal way to play.  The game doesn't even have a +/- ability chart for being an 18 vs 3 in your six ability scores.  It just says use them from another game if you choose, but this game doesn't bother.

2.  This one is not in the main book, but the "companion" rules book.  There is an optional, non-Vancian Magic Power Points system for magic instead of Spells Slots per day.  Wizards (Mahotsukai) and Clerics (Sohei) each have a chart of how many spell points they can have, and the level cap of the magic spells they can cast.  If you have 4 spell points, and want to cast a 1st level spell, each cast costs you 1D2 points.  If you don't have enough, you are done, or you can start using hit points instead.

That first one I think I would NOT use.  I like having strong or weak characters.  I do agree that old school "whitebox" levels of bonus and penalties of only +1, 0, or -1 is pretty lame.  I like the more modern -3 to +3 range of ability scores. 

The second one is something I would use.   Mana points are more my style.  But, I also had a though.  Let the wizard or cleric pick which way they want their character to run.  Use both methods in the same game at the same time.

Just for fun, a couple of interesting notes for you.  First, mahotsukai means witch or hedge wizard (IIRC) and sohei were Buddhist warrior monks.  I tend to think of sohei as more like the Knights of St. John or the Teutonic Knights orders.  (I just think this stuff in neat and wanted to share.)  Mahotsukai are generally seen in the same light as witch doctors and tribal shaman.

An onmyoji would be more in line with a wizard in western thought.  They were practitioners of divination in order to advise the court and administrators, serving both the nobility and the samurai usually and some even offered their services to the general public as freelancers.  They were also kami summoners, talsiman makers, and manipulators of spiritual and magical energies.  A large part of their job was balancing and pacifying turbulent energies. 

Shinto priests are called kannushi or shinshoku. (IIRC that means ceremony master and kami servant respectively)  Miko are shrine maidens, recognizable by their red pants and white top.  Each has their own rituals and duties with their own spiritual effects.

A magic system I already use in my D&D/OSR games is a four tier system and it seems to mesh well with the Japanese theme of supernatural powers.  Everything above tier one is a ritual spell.  One of the biggest reasons for this system is to do away with any kind of tracking of magical points. 

Tier one is spells that can be used at the drop of the hat.  Most of these are very low in power and cannot be used alone as an attack but they can enhance an attack and most of them are non-combat utility spells.  They can be used like cantrips in 5e.  There are more powerful tier one spells that magic users can acquire during play.

Tier two is more powerful spells that can range from a few minutes to a few hours to cast.  Most of these are divination spells of various types but there are some spells for communication, healing, and temporary enchantment.

Tier three spells can take several hours to weeks to cast and require the use of a prepared space.  These are generally layered spells and can be for much better divination, including learning new spells, magic tool making, and various spells that can help or hinder a designated person long term.  Often, these spells require multiple participants.

Tier four spells are essentially structures that someone with skills in magic can use.  They are massive investments in time and resources.  Generally, they tend to be single purpose spells that are very powerful like being able to view the world in a scroll and zoom kind of way or act as a massive defensive weapon like being able to cast a stream of fireballs.

Quote from: BadApple on February 03, 2024, 08:49:53 PM

Just for fun, a couple of interesting notes for you.  First, mahotsukai means witch or hedge wizard (IIRC) and sohei were Buddhist warrior monks.  I tend to think of sohei as more like the Knights of St. John or the Teutonic Knights orders.  (I just think this stuff in neat and wanted to share.)  Mahotsukai are generally seen in the same light as witch doctors and tribal shaman.

Mahotsukai translates literally to magic user. I'm not sure I've ever seen it used to refer to anything but western practices outside of a few references to people doing typical magic tricks performed for entertainment in the early Edo period. In those cases Genjutsu or illusion techniques is probably a more common term than mahou.

I found another game.  Chanbara.  It literally means the noise of clashing swords, but is slang for Samurai genre movies.  I got the $5 PDF.

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/232335/chanbara

It's D&D Basic style rules and only 64 pages.

One interesting bit are combat, magic, or skill dice.  Each class gets a few bonus D6 dice (3 usually) that you can add to your D20 rolls.  The magic dice are used to give a 1/3 chance to cast a spell for free.  Skill dice can add to your rolls to pull of rogue, er, I mean Ninja tricks.  Honestly, each sub-class uses their dice in their own way. 

Overall I would lump this game together with the two, free RPGs of Shinobi & Samurai, and Whitebox: Oriental Adventures.  They're all good, but Chanbara is the most detailed. 

I'm a bit annoyed by the classes.  The game is written like there are only four classes, but the sub-classes are actually classes.  There is nothing "sub" about them.

I like this game about as much as the other two D20 D&D clone/OSR games.   It is worth the $5 I paid for it.  Like them it's just a rulebook, so lore still needs to be found elsewhere from GURPS or Sengoku games. 

I've heard there are loads of fan made Japanese language Japan exclusive campaigns, scenarios, and even worlds for Call of Cthulhu set around medieval Japan or fantasy worlds based on medieval Japan. None of which have been translated but are pretty good so I'm told. I don't speak or read Moonrunes so I couldn't tell you for certain but I think the fact they exist at all is super interesting. All we really got in English was one sourcebook on Japan that wasn't even very accurate to how Japan really is.

(Update)
I was mistaken. Apparently this book was written in English. Should be useful to you.

I had yet another weird thing happen.

I just went to my FLGS and they had a copy of Adventures in Rokugan on the shelf.  This is the version of the game re-done as a 5E game: six ability scores, armor class, hit points, and uses the 1D20 for combat.

Man, I'm getting a bit carried away with this Sengoku period Japan RPG stuff.  I'm buying everything I can find.

And yet, I already had a couple of good, free games.  Why am I going down this road?  Glad I you asked, disembodied voice in my own head.  I'll tell you.  I like to make sure I found the "best" game I can before playing a setting.

I'm still feeling it out, but I think I like either Adventures in Rokugan, or Shinobi and Samurai.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 04, 2024, 08:18:03 PM
I had yet another weird thing happen.

I just went to my FLGS and they had a copy of Adventures in Rokugan on the shelf.  This is the version of the game re-done as a 5E game: six ability scores, armor class, hit points, and uses the 1D20 for combat.

Man, I'm getting a bit carried away with this Sengoku period Japan RPG stuff.  I'm buying everything I can find.

And yet, I already had a couple of good, free games.  Why am I going down this road?  Glad I you asked, disembodied voice in my own head.  I'll tell you.  I like to make sure I found the "best" game I can before playing a setting.

I'm still feeling it out, but I think I like either Adventures in Rokugan, or Shinobi and Samurai.

Adventures in Rokugan is Legends of the Five Rings retooled for use with 5e.  If you like that setting and you like 5e, then it will do just fine for you.