Quote from: BadApple on January 28, 2024, 04:48:05 PM
I'm in the middle of developing a Shinobi game right now using Cepheus Engine as a core.  I'm doing research right now into Shinto mysticism and traditional folklore beliefs in trying to develop the magic system.  In doing my prep, I got a hold of all the Japanese historical setting games I could.  Here's what I can tell you.

...

I would think that if you're trying to do a medieval Japanese fantasy game that OSR would be perfect.  Samurai for fighter, ninja/shinobi for thief/rogue, onmyoji for wizard, and Shinto priest is obvious.  You need a magic system that reflects the Japanese mysticism, a beastiary for yokai and kami, and a general setting guide.

The Japanese-created Nobunaga's Black Castle is probably superior to this Ronin Mork Borg thing, but it's in Japanese and inaccessible to most.

If you are doing a Shinobi thing shouldn't you be looking into Shugendo and Mikkyo esoteric Buddhism as well?

The manual for the old CRPG Inindo may have some inspiration for you for a more high fantasy take (only the SNES version is in English sadly). Of course you'd have to figure out which class was the Onmyouji from the Monk, etc  since the translations are a bit generic.

Quote from: WERDNA on January 28, 2024, 05:30:29 PM

Quote from: BadApple on January 28, 2024, 04:48:05 PM
I'm in the middle of developing a Shinobi game right now using Cepheus Engine as a core.  I'm doing research right now into Shinto mysticism and traditional folklore beliefs in trying to develop the magic system.  In doing my prep, I got a hold of all the Japanese historical setting games I could.  Here's what I can tell you.

...

I would think that if you're trying to do a medieval Japanese fantasy game that OSR would be perfect.  Samurai for fighter, ninja/shinobi for thief/rogue, onmyoji for wizard, and Shinto priest is obvious.  You need a magic system that reflects the Japanese mysticism, a beastiary for yokai and kami, and a general setting guide.

The Japanese-created Nobunaga's Black Castle is probably superior to this Ronin Mork Borg thing, but it's in Japanese and inaccessible to most.

If you are doing a Shinobi thing shouldn't you be looking into Shugendo and Mikkyo esoteric Buddhism as well?

The manual for the old CRPG Inindo may have some inspiration for you for a more high fantasy take (only the SNES version is in English sadly). Of course you'd have to figure out which class was the Onmyouji from the Monk, etc  since the translations are a bit generic.

Thanks for the tips.

I'll probably give Black Castle a pass.  While I recognize Mork Borg as being a fairly good system, I always feel icky dealing with the products.  Cy_Borg and Ronin were both unfriendly experiences.   

I have a few different subjects I've got listed for detailed research.  While I'm currently doing Shinto right now, Buddhist esoteric mysticism, yokai, Iga shinobi trade craft (spy stuff), and a few other loose folklore things are on my list.

Fortunately, I have some 40 years of watching Japanese movies for tempura flavored high fantasy inspiration.  Though i am always open to more, I love that shit.   

Quote from: BadApple on January 28, 2024, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: WERDNA on January 28, 2024, 05:30:29 PM

Quote from: BadApple on January 28, 2024, 04:48:05 PM
I'm in the middle of developing a Shinobi game right now using Cepheus Engine as a core.  I'm doing research right now into Shinto mysticism and traditional folklore beliefs in trying to develop the magic system.  In doing my prep, I got a hold of all the Japanese historical setting games I could.  Here's what I can tell you.

...

I would think that if you're trying to do a medieval Japanese fantasy game that OSR would be perfect.  Samurai for fighter, ninja/shinobi for thief/rogue, onmyoji for wizard, and Shinto priest is obvious.  You need a magic system that reflects the Japanese mysticism, a beastiary for yokai and kami, and a general setting guide.

The Japanese-created Nobunaga's Black Castle is probably superior to this Ronin Mork Borg thing, but it's in Japanese and inaccessible to most.

If you are doing a Shinobi thing shouldn't you be looking into Shugendo and Mikkyo esoteric Buddhism as well?

The manual for the old CRPG Inindo may have some inspiration for you for a more high fantasy take (only the SNES version is in English sadly). Of course you'd have to figure out which class was the Onmyouji from the Monk, etc  since the translations are a bit generic.

Thanks for the tips.

I'll probably give Black Castle a pass.  While I recognize Mork Borg as being a fairly good system, I always feel icky dealing with the products.  Cy_Borg and Ronin were both unfriendly experiences.   

I have a few different subjects I've got listed for detailed research.  While I'm currently doing Shinto right now, Buddhist esoteric mysticism, yokai, Iga shinobi trade craft (spy stuff), and a few other loose folklore things are on my list.

Fortunately, I have some 40 years of watching Japanese movies for tempura flavored high fantasy inspiration.  Though i am always open to more, I love that shit.   

I presume you've seen the various ninja manual translations put out by Antony Cummins?  Stephen Turnbull's Ninja: Unmasking the Myth
is pretty good for ninja lore as well.  If you need any yokai sources, a number of the Edo-era books and encyclopedias have been translated into English.  I teach a college class on supernatural Asia.  PM me if you'd like to see the recent syllabi with reading lists.

I might get hate for this, but the  Usagi Yojimbo RPG is actually really good for this sort of thing.

Also, I got my Castles and Crusades Codex Sinarum in the mail yesterday, it's pretty nice, although I'd probably just use Oriental Adventures at this point and port it to B/X.

Quote from: Brad on January 28, 2024, 08:21:51 PM
I might get hate for this, but the  Usagi Yojimbo RPG is actually really good for this sort of thing.

Also, I got my Castles and Crusades Codex Sinarum in the mail yesterday, it's pretty nice, although I'd probably just use Oriental Adventures at this point and port it to B/X.

Isn't the current edition a PbtA game?

Quote from: BadApple on January 28, 2024, 09:10:12 PM

Isn't the current edition a PbtA game?

Apparently so, before that it was Ironclaw (that furry game)'s system which admittedly I've heard was decent enough as a system, and before that it was Fuzion.

Tells you what I know...the Usagi game I was thinking of is the Fuzion one; I saw they had a new version but I never bothered checking it out. If it's one of those Apocalypse games, then that's fairly worthless.

So far the game I am liking the most is the Shinobi & Samurai game that is free from Taxidermic Owlbear.

http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/downloads.html

On a side note, I'm also really digging their ultra-lite game called "The Gothic Age".  I don't consider it a full game, but more like a combat test book with just the Fighter class (it doesn't even have classes).  I like it a lot as it has a lot of features I think come from 5E.  It has weapon traits, hit points that fixed quantity at level-1, weapon and armor degradation, and even ditches the D20 in favor of 2D6 for combat rolling.  If you could pair this up with a simple magic system, and create a few classes, then you have your own OSR game with a bit of a unique style to it.

And sweet Jesus, they're D&D retro-clone page has, by far, the most comprehensive list of D&D OSR games I have ever seen, most with links to the games if you want to check them out.

http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html

--------------------

Like I said, Shinobi & Samurai seems to be the game I want, but with the lore from the Sengoku game.

For those of you who like Palladium, Rifter #27 has the Eastern magic arts, and the classes of Samurai, Martial Artist, and Ninja.   The Monk is already part of the 2E game classes. 

Anyone who wants to run an RPG set in feudal Japan or a similar setting should definitely get Tadashi Ehara's books Daimyo of 1867 and especially Shogun and Daimyo.  They're fun to read even if you don't use them as gaming material.

I like Japanese and Chinese -based fantasy Asian games. I also don't mind fantasy religions. About a year ago I was thinking of doing something Asian-flavored. I like AD&D's Oriental Adventures, own Chaosium's Land of Ninja, and played but didn't enjoy Bushido. So I picked up the 3e OA, plus Qin, and two BRP monographs: Dragon Lines and The Celestial Empire. Both of the latter look really good. OTOH the thing I ended up liking the most was Mad Monks of Kwantoom! It's so much fun, meant to be used as an accessory for whatever D&D edition or clone you prefer. Races, classes, monsters and items. The book's energy is infectious.

Quote from: Persimmon on January 28, 2024, 08:19:49 PM

I presume you've seen the various ninja manual translations put out by Antony Cummins?  Stephen Turnbull's Ninja: Unmasking the Myth
is pretty good for ninja lore as well.  If you need any yokai sources, a number of the Edo-era books and encyclopedias have been translated into English.  I teach a college class on supernatural Asia.  PM me if you'd like to see the recent syllabi with reading lists.

Thanks for the info. I'm adding it (the Stephen Turnbull book) to my Amazon cart.

Also, I'm interested in the reading lists you mentioned. Feel free to send them to me here in mail or via coplenjasonATgmail.com

I'd appreciate it!

I didn't see a mention of Land of the Rising Sun by Lee Gold. As far as my limited Japanese knowledge goes it seems okay. Mind you, I'm a neophyte when it comes to Japanese lore influenced by movies (probably my biggest error), some Japanese based games (Bushido and the RQ supplement for Japan), and having read Shogun by James Clavell three times.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 05:50:02 PM
I didn't see a mention of Land of the Rising Sun by Lee Gold. As far as my limited Japanese knowledge goes it seems okay. Mind you, I'm a neophyte when it comes to Japanese lore influenced by movies (probably my biggest error), some Japanese based games (Bushido and the RQ supplement for Japan), and having read Shogun by James Clavell three times.

Wasn't that a board game?  I seem to recall it but not as an RPG.

While Shogun was a very good novel, it's absolute shit for a real look at Sengoku Japan.  Seppuku actually came later and was far less frequent, shinobi weren't a death cult, and there's just so many little inaccuracies.  I say this as someone who isn't either a scholar on the subject nor Japanese so you can be your ass that those that are will see the holes.  It's kind of like an anime about gunsmiths and bounty hunters in Chicago, a lot of fun but not a good reference.

Bushido is ok but I haven't read any of the RQ stuff to give any feedback. 

The most accurate as far as both facts and feel that I've seen is Sengoku: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/29421/sengoku-revised-ed-bundle

Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 07:08:05 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 05:50:02 PM
I didn't see a mention of Land of the Rising Sun by Lee Gold. As far as my limited Japanese knowledge goes it seems okay. Mind you, I'm a neophyte when it comes to Japanese lore influenced by movies (probably my biggest error), some Japanese based games (Bushido and the RQ supplement for Japan), and having read Shogun by James Clavell three times.

Wasn't that a board game?  I seem to recall it but not as an RPG.

While Shogun was a very good novel, it's absolute shit for a real look at Sengoku Japan.  Seppuku actually came later and was far less frequent, shinobi weren't a death cult, and there's just so many little inaccuracies.  I say this as someone who isn't either a scholar on the subject nor Japanese so you can be your ass that those that are will see the holes.  It's kind of like an anime about gunsmiths and bounty hunters in Chicago, a lot of fun but not a good reference.

Bushido is ok but I haven't read any of the RQ stuff to give any feedback. 

The most accurate as far as both facts and feel that I've seen is Sengoku: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/29421/sengoku-revised-ed-bundle

Nope, it was a Chivalry & Scorcery sister game. Now it's a C&S supplement for the woke edition. I have it but I haven't read it. My pile of games to read is so dagnabit large.

Shogun was so much fun, but even I knew it was chewing the fat with the ninja bit. It smacked so much of Hollywood with the almighty ninjas. I rolled my eyes and chuckled at the same time. I love the book for sheer escapism. That shows you, and others, my knowledge of a historical-based Japan is absolute shit. I know more about China from my Buddhist studies.

Sengoku? I've seen it, but I've never looked at it IIRC. Over the years, I've come to not look at so many RPGs. I already have enough. A game needs a stellar review from someone I trust for me to even look at it. Or the rare game grabs me. Not so much anymore because I haven't hit a FLGS for probably a decade. The one where I used to live was awful.