Quote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 07:37:26 PM

Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 07:08:05 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 05:50:02 PM
I didn't see a mention of Land of the Rising Sun by Lee Gold. As far as my limited Japanese knowledge goes it seems okay. Mind you, I'm a neophyte when it comes to Japanese lore influenced by movies (probably my biggest error), some Japanese based games (Bushido and the RQ supplement for Japan), and having read Shogun by James Clavell three times.

Wasn't that a board game?  I seem to recall it but not as an RPG.

While Shogun was a very good novel, it's absolute shit for a real look at Sengoku Japan.  Seppuku actually came later and was far less frequent, shinobi weren't a death cult, and there's just so many little inaccuracies.  I say this as someone who isn't either a scholar on the subject nor Japanese so you can be your ass that those that are will see the holes.  It's kind of like an anime about gunsmiths and bounty hunters in Chicago, a lot of fun but not a good reference.

Bushido is ok but I haven't read any of the RQ stuff to give any feedback. 

The most accurate as far as both facts and feel that I've seen is Sengoku: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/29421/sengoku-revised-ed-bundle

Nope, it was a Chivalry & Scorcery sister game. Now it's a C&S supplement for the woke edition. I have it but I haven't read it. My pile of games to read is so dagnabit large.

Shogun was so much fun, but even I knew it was chewing the fat with the ninja bit. It smacked so much of Hollywood with the almighty ninjas. I rolled my eyes and chuckled at the same time. I love the book for sheer escapism. That shows you, and others, my knowledge of a historical-based Japan is absolute shit. I know more about China from my Buddhist studies.

Sengoku? I've seen it, but I've never looked at it IIRC. Over the years, I've come to not look at so many RPGs. I already have enough. A game needs a stellar review from someone I trust for me to even look at it. Or the rare game grabs me. Not so much anymore because I haven't hit a FLGS for probably a decade. The one where I used to live was awful.

I wouldn't "recommend" Sengoku to play but I could recommend it for setting information if one was looking to do a historical samurai RP game.  All in, I don't think there's a single samurai game I would give a solid recommendation to.  What I can say is that it would be easy enough to do an OSR setting in line with Lion and Dragon/Sword and Caravan based on 15th century Japan.  I would even go as far as to say that would be a near perfect fit, even better than a Euro style setting.

Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 08:04:29 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 07:37:26 PM

Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 07:08:05 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 05:50:02 PM
I didn't see a mention of Land of the Rising Sun by Lee Gold. As far as my limited Japanese knowledge goes it seems okay. Mind you, I'm a neophyte when it comes to Japanese lore influenced by movies (probably my biggest error), some Japanese based games (Bushido and the RQ supplement for Japan), and having read Shogun by James Clavell three times.

Wasn't that a board game?  I seem to recall it but not as an RPG.

While Shogun was a very good novel, it's absolute shit for a real look at Sengoku Japan.  Seppuku actually came later and was far less frequent, shinobi weren't a death cult, and there's just so many little inaccuracies.  I say this as someone who isn't either a scholar on the subject nor Japanese so you can be your ass that those that are will see the holes.  It's kind of like an anime about gunsmiths and bounty hunters in Chicago, a lot of fun but not a good reference.

Bushido is ok but I haven't read any of the RQ stuff to give any feedback. 

The most accurate as far as both facts and feel that I've seen is Sengoku: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/29421/sengoku-revised-ed-bundle

Nope, it was a Chivalry & Scorcery sister game. Now it's a C&S supplement for the woke edition. I have it but I haven't read it. My pile of games to read is so dagnabit large.

Shogun was so much fun, but even I knew it was chewing the fat with the ninja bit. It smacked so much of Hollywood with the almighty ninjas. I rolled my eyes and chuckled at the same time. I love the book for sheer escapism. That shows you, and others, my knowledge of a historical-based Japan is absolute shit. I know more about China from my Buddhist studies.

Sengoku? I've seen it, but I've never looked at it IIRC. Over the years, I've come to not look at so many RPGs. I already have enough. A game needs a stellar review from someone I trust for me to even look at it. Or the rare game grabs me. Not so much anymore because I haven't hit a FLGS for probably a decade. The one where I used to live was awful.

I wouldn't "recommend" Sengoku to play but I could recommend it for setting information if one was looking to do a historical samurai RP game.  All in, I don't think there's a single samurai game I would give a solid recommendation to.  What I can say is that it would be easy enough to do an OSR setting in line with Lion and Dragon/Sword and Caravan based on 15th century Japan.  I would even go as far as to say that would be a near perfect fit, even better than a Euro style setting.

I'm all for game settings that aren't fantasy Europe. Yes, that includes my own setting that's ticking me off - about to do some major changes to it. I'm bored to tears by Fantasy Europe. The neglect of other cultures, or better, the total attitude that they're missing or that it's up to the DM bugs me. I'll die happily if I never see a setting with knights and princesses again. That includes fantasy novels. I love the books I've read, but someone with less talent has to rehash it annually. I can't remember how many books I've not finished because I get x pages in, and then I go - Welp, I've already read this story by a far better writer. Most Tolkien clones fall into this category, but McKiernan is a guilty pleasure. We all have some weakness which goes fully against our main views.

One of my friends has a pdf of Sengoku that he's sending me, so I'll be able to slowly make my way through it. I'm in search of something different. I have a hard copy of Swords & Caravan on the stand beside my desk. It's in my to get to pile. Some people have spoken highly of it, but they may be Pundit asskissers.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 08:28:26 PM
I'm all for game settings that aren't fantasy Europe. Yes, that includes my own setting that's ticking me off - about to do some major changes to it. I'm bored to tears by Fantasy Europe. The neglect of other cultures, or better, the total attitude that they're missing or that it's up to the DM bugs me. I'll die happily if I never see a setting with knights and princesses again. That includes fantasy novels. I love the books I've read, but someone with less talent has to rehash it annually. I can't remember how many books I've not finished because I get x pages in, and then I go - Welp, I've already read this story by a far better writer. Most Tolkien clones fall into this category, but McKiernan is a guilty pleasure. We all have some weakness which goes fully against our main views.

One of my friends has a pdf of Sengoku that he's sending me, so I'll be able to slowly make my way through it. I'm in search of something different. I have a hard copy of Swords & Caravan on the stand beside my desk. It's in my to get to pile. Some people have spoken highly of it, but they may be Pundit asskissers.

If you would like a bit of a taste of the fictional medieval Japan to stoke the imagination here's a list of films.  (all of them are Japanese with dubs and subs available)

Hidden Fortress
Sanjuro
Throne of Blood
Chushingura (The 47 Ronin)
Shogun's Samurai (The Yagyu Clan Conspiracy)
Shogun's Ninja
The Ninjas

I'd vote for one of the RuneQuest variants. Either the Chaosium Land of the Ninja, the Mongoose Legend of Samurai or the 2-page RuneQuest 2 variant "Zen and the art of Adventure Gaming" in White Dwarf.

Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 09:01:18 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on January 30, 2024, 08:28:26 PM
I'm all for game settings that aren't fantasy Europe. Yes, that includes my own setting that's ticking me off - about to do some major changes to it. I'm bored to tears by Fantasy Europe. The neglect of other cultures, or better, the total attitude that they're missing or that it's up to the DM bugs me. I'll die happily if I never see a setting with knights and princesses again. That includes fantasy novels. I love the books I've read, but someone with less talent has to rehash it annually. I can't remember how many books I've not finished because I get x pages in, and then I go - Welp, I've already read this story by a far better writer. Most Tolkien clones fall into this category, but McKiernan is a guilty pleasure. We all have some weakness which goes fully against our main views.

One of my friends has a pdf of Sengoku that he's sending me, so I'll be able to slowly make my way through it. I'm in search of something different. I have a hard copy of Swords & Caravan on the stand beside my desk. It's in my to get to pile. Some people have spoken highly of it, but they may be Pundit asskissers.

If you would like a bit of a taste of the fictional medieval Japan to stoke the imagination here's a list of films.  (all of them are Japanese with dubs and subs available)

Hidden Fortress
Sanjuro
Throne of Blood
Chushingura (The 47 Ronin)
Shogun's Samurai (The Yagyu Clan Conspiracy)
Shogun's Ninja
The Ninjas

Thanks. I'll get to watching them tomorrow.

A year ago I found all of the Zatiochi movies on Youtube. The site I used is gone but this one has a bunch.
https://www.youtube.com/@EigaPlus/videos

I also found 4 years of the Zatiochi tv series along with a ton of other Chanubra content.
https://www.youtube.com/@samuraivsninja/videos

I'm quite liking Thousand Arrows, a PbtA game set in the Warring States.  Strictly historical; what magic there is limited to plausible deniability.

It's not something that is brought up in Sengoku settings much but exploration of ancient tombs (kofuns) is a pretty plausible form of adventuring in a Japanese setting. Apparently some smaller castles of the Sengoku period were built over these mounds. See an irl example interior below.

Quote from: WERDNA on January 31, 2024, 01:33:39 AM
It's not something that is brought up in Sengoku settings much but exploration of ancient tombs (kofuns) is a pretty plausible form of adventuring in a Japanese setting. Apparently some smaller castles of the Sengoku period were built over these mounds. See an irl example interior below.

Part of what makes any setting work well is a sense of history.and having some remnants of that history around.  Japan is perfect for this in a lot of ways in that we have a lot of that around both as physical objects and places but also as distinct subcultures.  You brought up the kofuns but we have fortifications and temples from various stages of cultural development that can all be explored as well.  Add to that, there's a lot of areas that were mostly isolated in the mountains or being at the extreme reaches.

There is...


But it is GURPS (third edition, no less), which is a problem for a lot of people, and it is only available from SJG (or used). There's a pdf with the table of contents at https://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Japan/img/japan-excerpt.pdf.

The two games I like, Shinobi & Samurai, and Whitebox:Eastern Adventures are both great rulebooks, and free. 

They just have zero Japanese Lore. 

Sengoku, Bushido, and Legend of the Five Rings are all poor games with awesome lore sections.

It looks like the game for me is going to be an Amalgam of free rules and paid lore. 

Also, saying a game is cheesy for cinematic BS ninjas and Samurai powers is a selling point if you ask me.  We want the extreme lore.  It's a game, not a history lesson.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 31, 2024, 07:09:51 PM
The two games I like, Shinobi & Samurai, and Whitebox:Eastern Adventures are both great rulebooks, and free. 

They just have zero Japanese Lore. 

Sengoku, Bushido, and Legend of the Five Rings are all poor games with awesome lore sections.

It looks like the game for me is going to be an Amalgam of free rules and paid lore. 

Also, saying a game is cheesy for cinematic BS ninjas and Samurai powers is a selling point if you ask me.  We want the extreme lore.  It's a game, not a history lesson.

Can you post links to Shinobi & Samurai and Whitebox:Eastern Adventures?

Shinobi & Samurai: https://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/7/4/23742956/shinobi__samurai_1.0b.pdf
Whitebox: EA : https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/268199/White-Box-Eastern-Adventures

I also made a big post about Oni in another thread some here may find useful: https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/medieval-authentic-supernatural-lore/15/

Quote from: WERDNA on February 01, 2024, 12:36:27 AM
Shinobi & Samurai: https://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/7/4/23742956/shinobi__samurai_1.0b.pdf
Whitebox: EA : https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/268199/White-Box-Eastern-Adventures

I also made a big post about Oni in another thread some here may find useful: https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/medieval-authentic-supernatural-lore/15/

Thank you.

I've been looking at as many different Eastern themed games I can get a hold of for how they solve various things.  So far, I've seen a few things worth grabbing so I think it's been worth my time.

I went through my games and I have:

Sengoku (looks like the revised edition)
Bushido (FGU)
GURPS Japan
GURPS China
Oriental Adventures (1st...got rid of 3rd couple summers ago)
Land of the Rising Sun
Usagi Yojimbo
Runequest Land of Ninja
Ninjas and Superspies and Mystic China

"Medieval Japan, or a fantasy world inspired by Japanese lore" is the original question. Honestly, after looking through the stuff again, Ninjas and Superspies wins it for me due to the insane fantasy element implied by the setting. It's basically playing a combination of Big Trouble in Little China and Ninja III: The Domination. If Lo Pan shows up to fuck with your cybernetically-enhanced ninja warrior, no problem. Time travel back to the Edo era to fight the shogun? No problem. You can basically shoehorn every single aspect of Asian-flavored folklore, myth, and historical fact you want with no issues, or you can play it straight using resources from other games.

If you want STRICTLY historical, though, then GURPS Japan as a resource and probably Land of Ninja work better, simply because BRP is a better overall system.

Take my opinion with the understanding that I watched way too many kung fu movies as a a kid and hung out in martial arts studios throughout high school and college. So there is an element of whimsy I expect.