I like how the stormtrooper Expy in the Mini Six version, the Centurion, has 18 dice of stats and is a badass. 

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 09:00:21 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2023, 10:33:29 PM
Bullshit.

I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game.

Ok, I have to know more about this.  I am sure this is a really interesting story.   

I'm at work right now, but I'll post it up when I get home.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 19, 2023, 12:06:09 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 09:00:21 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2023, 10:33:29 PM
Bullshit.

I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game.

Ok, I have to know more about this.  I am sure this is a really interesting story.   

I'm at work right now, but I'll post it up when I get home.

Great.  I appreciate it.  Sounds like a very interesting story.

Quote from: Brad on April 19, 2023, 09:31:39 AM

Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 09:49:29 PM
For a rules lite game? Reduce it to 15 pages, and get rid of the rules we never used anyway.

The Player's section in the main rulebook is 18 pages INCLUDING the solo adventure...any more light than that and you're gonna end up with something that is so lacking any sort of flavor that it won't be Star Wars anymore.

While I agree you CAN play a SW game using something even less rigorous than 1st edition WEG SW, those usually have a dearth of information that you'll need to supplement anyway. As far as equipment goes, do you REALLY need any more info than storm trooper rifle and blaster pistol? Storm trooper armor code? Etc., just ignore all the other stuff.

I guess it comes down to what the OP meant by "rules lite." He might look at the WEG book and say "No, that's way too much." I generally agree with your assessment that anything less than those 18 pages is going to be inadequate (I said 15, but whatever.)  But it really comes down to what the OP meant by rules lite.

What I've seen from the rules-lite crowd is they want something minimal, like Risus. Or "Lasers and Feelings," which is Star Trek in barely a page. As someone mentioned upthread, stuff like that tends to be a thought experiment with little value. Not my thing, but some people seem to enjoy it.

Quote from: Aglondir on April 19, 2023, 03:20:24 PM
I guess it comes down to what the OP meant by "rules lite." He might look at the WEG book and say "No, that's way too much." I generally agree with your assessment that anything less than those 18 pages is going to be inadequate (I said 15, but whatever.)  But it really comes down to what the OP meant by rules lite.

What I've seen from the rules-lite crowd is they want something minimal, like Risus. Or "Lasers and Feelings," which is Star Trek in barely a page. As someone mentioned upthread, stuff like that tends to be a thought experiment with little value. Not my thing, but some people seem to enjoy it.

I dunno, those sorts of "rules-light" games are pretty...sparse. To the point you have to add a bunch of stuff to make them anything remotely resembling a real RPG. White Star could work, but it's not more simpler than WEG SW. I've tried to get into something like Microlite but when you start adding stuff that makes it fun it turns into B/X with ascending AC, so why even bother?

And yeah, OP needs to define what he means by that phrase, anyway. I think most RPGs are fairly rules-light for the most part but that's because I like SFB.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 09:00:21 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2023, 10:33:29 PM
Bullshit.

I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game.

Ok, I have to know more about this.  I am sure this is a really interesting story.   

Once upon a time, in a small city called Knoxville, there was a nerd bar named Green's Tavern. It wasn't a huge place, but it was a cozy place that could seat about 80. Had several widescreen TVs hanging on the walls, but they would never play any sports - sportsball was not allowed in there (neither was Johnny Cash on the jukebox, but that is another story). The owners were a short dark haired German woman named Anya and a tall buff bald guy named Jeff who looked like he used to play Rugby (as a whole team by himself). This was the kind of place where you knew you were welcome if you walked in and were greeted with "Oh, fuck - it's you." and a hug from Anya or a "Honey, a bug just flew in,  can you get me the flyswatter?" from Jeff. I loved that place.

Both owners were science fiction and fantasy fans and gamers. Since weekend days were kind of quiet, they encouraged people to run their TTRPGs there. I had been running a d6 Star Wars game for the past month and a half on Saturdays.

I went in on a Thursday night sat down at the bar and Anya asked if I wanted to talk about the game with some guys who had seen me run it. I agreed and we started chatting. I was answering a lot of questions because most of them had played D&D and didn't know that any other TTRPGs had existed. As I was talking, I noticed that a few more people had come over to listen. They said that they wanted to try it and I responded with, "How about now?"

So I went out to my car and grabbed the main rulebook (2nd Ed R&E), some dice, and a notebook. Everyone had downed at least two pints by then and we passed the book around so that people could choose character templates. I got all nine of them set up and went through the Quick Encounters from Schweighofer's convention notes and some small time side quests from a Polyhedron Newszine. We played until closing (about five hours total).

I won't call it my best GMing, but we had fun. It was very impromptu.

If I could have planned it out, I would have used a copy of the Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game, made plenty of handouts, brought a bunch of pencils, and used Team Recovery adventure from Challenge magazine.

Quote from: Brad on April 19, 2023, 03:48:28 PM

Quote from: Aglondir on April 19, 2023, 03:20:24 PM
I guess it comes down to what the OP meant by "rules lite." He might look at the WEG book and say "No, that's way too much." I generally agree with your assessment that anything less than those 18 pages is going to be inadequate (I said 15, but whatever.)  But it really comes down to what the OP meant by rules lite.

What I've seen from the rules-lite crowd is they want something minimal, like Risus. Or "Lasers and Feelings," which is Star Trek in barely a page. As someone mentioned upthread, stuff like that tends to be a thought experiment with little value. Not my thing, but some people seem to enjoy it.

I dunno, those sorts of "rules-light" games are pretty...sparse. To the point you have to add a bunch of stuff to make them anything remotely resembling a real RPG. White Star could work, but it's not more simpler than WEG SW. I've tried to get into something like Microlite but when you start adding stuff that makes it fun it turns into B/X with ascending AC, so why even bother?

And yeah, OP needs to define what he means by that phrase, anyway. I think most RPGs are fairly rules-light for the most part but that's because I like SFB.

I assume you've given ASL and RM a shot as well then.

I lost all my ASL in a move and didn't go back, but I'll still play RM and SFB.

Fan made SWADE Star Wars is free. It's excellent, and since it's Savage Worlds it's very tweakable to your tastes.

Core Companion
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZS6qxH_0MG8TTVAF9e0fw8Qh7FjbAMNy/view

Planetary Guide
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y85MBcaTyizD7G3Sz1mAxEOIYMEuO8wd/view

Tapani Campaign - a free entire campaign
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lUKbytrZNDoza-xBDcvVSbFpX5OKMu7q

He's also made a ton of one-shots.

Quote from: PulpHerb on April 19, 2023, 05:53:54 PM
I assume you've given ASL and RM a shot as well then.

I lost all my ASL in a move and didn't go back, but I'll still play RM and SFB.

ASL is my panacea for wargames, although Advanced Third Reich is right up there. I am still trying to figure out Magic Realm, though...NOT an easy game whatsoever.

I remember when I was a kid everyone bought those Avalon Hill games, like Gladiator, Titan, and Wizard War and whatever else, around the same time Dragonslayer came out. My parents and all their friends gave up, but I taught myself to play, or at least I think I did. Many fond memories reading the most dense rules possible and not being frustrated at all. Cannot say the same thing now.

EDIT: The SW Savage World stuff is very well done for what it is. Not surprised who posted a link to that...

Quote from: Brad on April 19, 2023, 09:54:47 AM
RE: d20 and SAGA...d20 makes a great video game. SAGA makes a nice coaster.

The gold standard for coasters is AOL CDs and I don't think SAGA holds up against it. I have played SAGA found that I liked what it promised, but could not find what it delivered. Talent "trees" that don't branch come to mind.

For SW d20, I was not playing in Star Wars but found the wounds/vitality mechanic cool and too steep a death spiral. Making wounds cause vitality bleed and or drain vitality instead of penalizing rolls.

Savage Worlds is probably about right for a lower middle crunch game.

For lower crunch, 1E Scion could feel right, but needs an adaptation. Likewise, I think Ashen Stars delivers the best compromise on space combat, but the rest of it is unfortunately Gumshoe.

At the absolute low end of rules-lite as a minimalist exercise, plug Star Wars into Simple World.

I agree RE Star Wars D6 1E. I may be biased because this was the game that got me into rpgs in the late 80s, but I still think it's stupid easy to play or run.

There was a free game called Star Wars Galactic Adventures floating around the web several years ago.  I'm not sure how lite it is (I have a copy but it has been a while since I've looked at it) but it is based on older classic D&D (BX or BECMi), like an OSR version of Star Wars. If you are familiar with those it may be worth tracking down to see if it is "lite" enough for you.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 19, 2023, 05:30:44 PM
Once upon a time, in a small city called Knoxville, there was a nerd bar named Green's Tavern. It wasn't a huge place, but it was a cozy place that could seat about 80. Had several widescreen TVs hanging on the walls, but they would never play any sports - sportsball was not allowed in there (neither was Johnny Cash on the jukebox, but that is another story). The owners were a short dark haired German woman named Anya and a tall buff bald guy named Jeff who looked like he used to play Rugby (as a whole team by himself). This was the kind of place where you knew you were welcome if you walked in and were greeted with "Oh, fuck - it's you." and a hug from Anya or a "Honey, a bug just flew in,  can you get me the flyswatter?" from Jeff. I loved that place.

Both owners were science fiction and fantasy fans and gamers. Since weekend days were kind of quiet, they encouraged people to run their TTRPGs there. I had been running a d6 Star Wars game for the past month and a half on Saturdays.

I went in on a Thursday night sat down at the bar and Anya asked if I wanted to talk about the game with some guys who had seen me run it. I agreed and we started chatting. I was answering a lot of questions because most of them had played D&D and didn't know that any other TTRPGs had existed. As I was talking, I noticed that a few more people had come over to listen. They said that they wanted to try it and I responded with, "How about now?"

So I went out to my car and grabbed the main rulebook (2nd Ed R&E), some dice, and a notebook. Everyone had downed at least two pints by then and we passed the book around so that people could choose character templates. I got all nine of them set up and went through the Quick Encounters from Schweighofer's convention notes and some small time side quests from a Polyhedron Newszine. We played until closing (about five hours total).

I won't call it my best GMing, but we had fun. It was very impromptu.

If I could have planned it out, I would have used a copy of the Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game, made plenty of handouts, brought a bunch of pencils, and used Team Recovery adventure from Challenge magazine.

Very cool story.  Thanks for sharing it.

Looked it up and it appears it closed 3 years ago.  Too bad.  Need more places like that.

Wrong thread

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 08:58:56 AM

Quote from: ForgottenF on April 18, 2023, 07:48:43 PM
Me, sad to say. I'd like to like Star Wars. As a kid I loved it, but for whatever reason I've gong increasingly cold on Star Wars over the years.

I would say my issue with playing Star Wars is that it feels like the universe is so fleshed out that it doesn't feel like the characters can really make a difference in the universe.  The history is set.

I really don't get this sentiment given the sheer amount of EU stuff and resent stuff like the Mandalorian that contradicts it. The amount of stuff that characters could potentially do other than live under the shadows of the main films protagonists is staggering. Even after the death of the Emperor there were still countless remnants of the Empire out at the edges of civilization in a vast galaxy teeming with life and habitable planets, as well as tons of criminal elements to fill the void of the power vacuum left behind.

The establishment of the New Republic is far from a done deal and stuff that threatens its existence is scattered all over the place. Characters could be envoys trying to get newly liberated planets to join the Republic, members of the Republic military tasked with protecting member planets or investigating new threats. Or perhaps New Republic intelligence trying to ferret out Imperial agents and saboteurs.

There's also the reestablishment of the Jedi Order, and while Luke is the obvious candidate for that there's no reason he has to be the only one, as there are competing Force using ideologies, like Grey Jedi, Witches of Dathomir, etc. As well as potential Jedi remnants scattered out in hiding across the galaxy, lost Jedi lore in holocrons waiting to be discovered, ancient Jedi temples, and more. Jedi PCs not named Luke could surely tackle that.

And that's not even getting into the possibility of running campaigns based around criminal elements, mercenaries or bounty hunters and such. There's so much crap to do in the Star Wars universe, I don't know where the idea that its history is set comes from, other than not knowing enough about it. And even then a lot of this stuff is implied in the films themselves. So you don't really need to be that familiar with the EU to get there.

I've had good results with StarORE