Quote from: Malaky on April 19, 2023, 12:42:14 AMCharacter gen is 2 pages. The core rules of the game are 6 pages.

I mean when you strip away 90% of the in-practice rules and use shorthand and keep the core, then GURPS 4e is rules light. Hell, I could make the argument that GURPS fits on 2 pages.

Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 07:26:55 PM
Star Wars D6 is not rules lite.

It is. It's the absolute minimum amount of rules needed to accurately represent the setting; less than that and you get a useless thought experiment (aka what passes for "rules light" today)

It seems Rules Lite can join Storygame and OSR in 'terms people can't even agree upon.'

I use White Star for space opera; I love how it has every popular SF film & show's monsters all mashed up. if I wasn't I'd use Star Wars 1e with Companion, or Mini Six - Imperium in Revolt. All of those are reasonably rules light IMO. I certainly think D6 System is a better fit for Star Wars than any D&D based system can be.

Quote from: Grognard GM on April 19, 2023, 01:46:37 AM
It seems Rules Lite can join Storygame and OSR in 'terms people can't even agree upon.'

Yeah, that's the problem.

Quote from: S'mon on April 19, 2023, 01:56:01 AM
I use White Star for space opera; I love how it has every popular SF film & show's monsters all mashed up. if I wasn't I'd use Star Wars 1e with Companion, or Mini Six - Imperium in Revolt. All of those are reasonably rules light IMO. I certainly think D6 System is a better fit for Star Wars than any D&D based system can be.

Why the companion? We never found much use for it.

Quote from: Aglondir on April 19, 2023, 02:34:45 AM
Why the companion? We never found much use for it.

It had the Target Number errata.

Quote from: Brad on April 18, 2023, 06:13:39 PM
You can get the collector edition reprints from many places. I have a set I got for $35. Also:

http://d6holocron.com/downloads/books/REUP.pdf

I forgot about this.  I think more people should know about this edition.

Thanks for the link.

Quote from: ForgottenF on April 18, 2023, 07:48:43 PM
Me, sad to say. I'd like to like Star Wars. As a kid I loved it, but for whatever reason I've gong increasingly cold on Star Wars over the years.

I would say my issue with playing Star Wars is that it feels like the universe is so fleshed out that it doesn't feel like the characters can really make a difference in the universe.  The history is set.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2023, 10:33:29 PM
Bullshit.

I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game.

Ok, I have to know more about this.  I am sure this is a really interesting story.   

I have played/run SW D6 2nd edition Revised from WEG.

People seem to prefer the 1st edition over the 2nd edition Revised.   What are the big differences?

Why is first edition better?

Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 09:49:29 PM
For a rules lite game? Reduce it to 15 pages, and get rid of the rules we never used anyway.

The Player's section in the main rulebook is 18 pages INCLUDING the solo adventure...any more light than that and you're gonna end up with something that is so lacking any sort of flavor that it won't be Star Wars anymore.

While I agree you CAN play a SW game using something even less rigorous than 1st edition WEG SW, those usually have a dearth of information that you'll need to supplement anyway. As far as equipment goes, do you REALLY need any more info than storm trooper rifle and blaster pistol? Storm trooper armor code? Etc., just ignore all the other stuff.

RE: Companion, I looked through mine last night just to refresh my memory and the only thing from there that is remotely useful are the ranges for difficulty and the uncertainty dice, both of which can be dropped in without any issues. I never used the ranges and had zero issues...static difficulty is pretty pervasive in modern games, so whatever.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 09:03:02 AM
I have played/run SW D6 2nd edition Revised from WEG.

People seem to prefer the 1st edition over the 2nd edition Revised.   What are the big differences?

Why is first edition better?

Replying to this since it is a good question...I have played 1st, 2nd, 2nd Revised, SAGA, and d20. The major mechanical difference between the WEG versions is the wild die and the way some of the combat options work with multiple actions. Basically the wild die is similar to the ghost die in Ghostbusters in that it introduces some sort of possible bad or random stuff into rolls, but quite honestly while this fits Ghostbusters it sucks for SW. I hate it. Combat is handled differently, too, with how many D6 you lose for doing multiple actions and it adds a massive amount of complication. In 1st say you have a 5D in Blaster and want to shoot twice in the round. No problem, that's a 1D decrease, so two shots at 4D (which on good rolls will wound storm troopers). Perhaps you take a shot at 4D, but now need to Dodge because you are gonna get hit by a storm trooper who didn't fail his eye exam. Third action, Dodge is at 3D, and your subsequent Blaster shot is at 3D (-2D for three actions). That's it. There is no retroactive application to the first shot because it's already done. 2nd fucks this up with all sorts of pre-emptive "reaction" stuff, which probably makes more sense LOGICALLY but in play it is essentially irrelevant and annoying. And it's not cinematic whatsoever.

There are lots of other minor differences, but I think 1st captures the cinematic, fast moving action of SW extremely well and glosses over the gritty realism that has no place in an SW game. 2nd/2nd revised add crap you do not need. 1st is also presented better, and written better. The solo example of play in vastly better, for instance. The provided templates are expansive enough to be evocative, but short enough that you can figure out a character concept in a few minutes. It keeps player choice to a reasonable level and lets you get on with the game instead of getting hung up with customization that doesn't move the game along.

People always bring up Force users...well, yeah, they are fucking badass when they get a lot of points in Force skills. So what? This is the same argument that wizards are annoying because at 20th level they're casting Wish when fighters just have more magical swords. So what? Jedi SHOULD be feared, and a PC Jedi is as rare as an honest politician. I ran a game over the summer for some buddies a few years back and we played a ton, like every day for two months. The characters advanced quite a bit and eventually it became obvious the game was starting to revolve around the lone Jedi PC because he had attracted the attention of the Emperor. Vader shows up, tests the PC, then lets them go. One of the players pointed out the shift in focus, but no one cared because it was fucking Star Wars and if you have a Jedi in your group who is gaining some Force ability, you bet your ass he's going to be targeted by the Emperor. They eventually blew up a capital ship in a hit-n-run allegedly used by the Emperor, but the game ended before they ever found out if he was actually on it or not. I digress...it's not an issue, it's one of those thought experiments people create who have never actually played the game.

RE: d20 and SAGA...d20 makes a great video game. SAGA makes a nice coaster.

EDIT: Almost forgot about Star Warriors...good luck tracking this down, but one of the better boardgames ever made for SW ship combat. And it integrates perfectly with the RPG. Definitely not rules light, but provides some very fulfilling space battles.

Quote from: Brad on April 19, 2023, 09:54:47 AM
Replying to this since it is a good question...I have played 1st, 2nd, 2nd Revised, SAGA, and d20. The major mechanical difference between the WEG versions is the wild die and the way some of the combat options work with multiple actions. Basically the wild die is similar to the ghost die in Ghostbusters in that it introduces some sort of possible bad or random stuff into rolls, but quite honestly while this fits Ghostbusters it sucks for SW. I hate it. Combat is handled differently, too, with how many D6 you lose for doing multiple actions and it adds a massive amount of complication. In 1st say you have a 5D in Blaster and want to shoot twice in the round. No problem, that's a 1D decrease, so two shots at 4D (which on good rolls will wound storm troopers). Perhaps you take a shot at 4D, but now need to Dodge because you are gonna get hit by a storm trooper who didn't fail his eye exam. Third action, Dodge is at 3D, and your subsequent Blaster shot is at 3D (-2D for three actions). That's it. There is no retroactive application to the first shot because it's already done. 2nd fucks this up with all sorts of pre-emptive "reaction" stuff, which probably makes more sense LOGICALLY but in play it is essentially irrelevant and annoying. And it's not cinematic whatsoever.

There are lots of other minor differences, but I think 1st captures the cinematic, fast moving action of SW extremely well and glosses over the gritty realism that has no place in an SW game. 2nd/2nd revised add crap you do not need. 1st is also presented better, and written better. The solo example of play in vastly better, for instance. The provided templates are expansive enough to be evocative, but short enough that you can figure out a character concept in a few minutes. It keeps player choice to a reasonable level and lets you get on with the game instead of getting hung up with customization that doesn't move the game along.

People always bring up Force users...well, yeah, they are fucking badass when they get a lot of points in Force skills. So what? This is the same argument that wizards are annoying because at 20th level they're casting Wish when fighters just have more magical swords. So what? Jedi SHOULD be feared, and a PC Jedi is as rare as an honest politician. I ran a game over the summer for some buddies a few years back and we played a ton, like every day for two months. The characters advanced quite a bit and eventually it became obvious the game was starting to revolve around the lone Jedi PC because he had attracted the attention of the Emperor. Vader shows up, tests the PC, then lets them go. One of the players pointed out the shift in focus, but no one cared because it was fucking Star Wars and if you have a Jedi in your group who is gaining some Force ability, you bet your ass he's going to be targeted by the Emperor. They eventually blew up a capital ship in a hit-n-run allegedly used by the Emperor, but the game ended before they ever found out if he was actually on it or not. I digress...it's not an issue, it's one of those thought experiments people create who have never actually played the game.

I appreciate the explanation.  I have never played the D20 or Saga edition so I know nothing about them.

I don't have a problem with losing a die when doing multiple attacks since if you didn't do that characters would become invincible.  A problem I have with the SW D6 version is that it really broke at high levels.   Characters would have skills that are so high that even with a multi attack penalty the player's character was always successful which is what caused the game to become not fun.

I generally didnt have Jedi characters because I thought the SW D6 rules never explained how to play and create them very well which meant I generally wouldn't allow them in my game.

Another vote for the original Star Wars D6. There was a pullout in the early adventures that tweaked the range of target numbers and cleared up reaction skills if I recall.



Pick a template from the back of the book.
The stats are fixed, can't up them but the skills underneath have the same value as the stat (so for example Dodge and Blaster under Dex would have a value of 4D, the number of dice you roll). Add 7D (no more than 2D to one skill) to the skills. Equipment is on the flip side of the character sheet so you don't have to pore through pages of stuff and figure out if it's any good.

Play.

That's character creation. I picked Bounty Hunter out because it seemed that Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, one of the jedi types and Brash Pilot were the most popular in our group. Only issue we had after months of blowing shit up (Star Wars=Rebel space terrorists the roleplaying game basically) and getting rather good at it Stormtroopers became irrelevant. Thinking back I should have made Blue, Green, Red, Black all the other colours of Stormtrooper and upped the stats but I was fixated on keeping things canon. With 9D-10D blaster and force skills the characters were getting sort of near the canon Star Wars characters (Han Solo is a beast).

All that was before the dark times though. Before the prequels.

My love for Star Wars fell off a cliff but if I were going back to a Galaxy far far away it would be with 1st Edition. I have 2nd and 2nd revised and the Reup fan book (which is great, a real labour of love) but you don't need the extras that get tacked on with later versions. Keep it simple. 1e.