I love rules lite games. Some are just elegantly simple. A set of rules that does more with less will impress me.
I also like Star Wars. What nerd doesn't?
So I am always on the hunt for a good way to combine those. Like recently I found Swords and Six Siders, and a spin off game called Lasers and Six Siders. It turns out L&SS is more of a general sci-fi game that does have psychics, but they don't use a precognitive power to block gunshots with a sword.
Right now I would give it a three way toss up between Mini-Six Bare Bones, Pundit's own d20 Star Adventurer, or Tiny-D6 Frontiers with house rules to add precognition as another Psychic power set.
Or do you guys have a suggestion?
(https://i.imgur.com/IDdJIhh.jpg)
Quote from: Brad on April 18, 2023, 05:50:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IDdJIhh.jpg)
Yeah, good luck buying that one.
May I suggest a free and legal alternative?
https://ogc.rpglibrary.org/index.php?title=OpenD6 (https://ogc.rpglibrary.org/index.php?title=OpenD6) Just download the Space ones.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 18, 2023, 06:05:16 PM
May I suggest a free and legal alternative?
https://ogc.rpglibrary.org/index.php?title=OpenD6 (https://ogc.rpglibrary.org/index.php?title=OpenD6) Just download the Space ones.
You can get the collector edition reprints from many places. I have a set I got for $35. Also:
http://d6holocron.com/downloads/books/REUP.pdf
Star Wars D6 is not rules lite.
Mini-6 D6 "Imperium and Rebellion."
Quote from: Mini-6It is a dark time across the galaxy. Forces of the Grand Imperium have crushed the last vestiges of the once great Galactic Commonwealth. As tyranny spreads a few brave and desperate souls have dared to stand against the Sovereign's power. Rebels attempting to show the galaxy that freedom can be claimed if people are willing to stand up for what they believe in. Th e future is uncertain, but it will be forged by the spirit of heroes.
http://www.antipaladingames.com/p/mini-six.html
Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 18, 2023, 05:47:05 PM
I also like Star Wars. What nerd doesn't?
Me, sad to say. I'd like to like Star Wars. As a kid I loved it, but for whatever reason I've gong increasingly cold on Star Wars over the years.
That aside, I know
Solar Blades and Cosmic Spells has a following.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/260378/Solar-Blades--Cosmic-Spells
Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 07:26:55 PM
Star Wars D6 is not rules lite.
You can look at the character sheet and figure out what it means in two seconds. You literally roll the number of dice stated to hit a target number. That is it. How much "lighter" do you need it to be?
Quote from: Brad on April 18, 2023, 08:58:20 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 07:26:55 PM
Star Wars D6 is not rules lite.
You can look at the character sheet and figure out what it means in two seconds. You literally roll the number of dice stated to hit a target number. That is it. How much "lighter" do you need it to be?
For a rules lite game? Reduce it to 15 pages, and get rid of the rules we never used anyway.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 07:26:55 PM
Star Wars D6 is not rules lite.
Bullshit.
I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game. d6 WEG Star Wars RPG is an elegant, easy to use system and a damn sight more rules lite than any piece of crap Star Wars game that came out of WotC or FFG.
Paladin by Clinton R. Nixon is a great rules lite (28 pages) game and while not straight up Star Wars, SW was a big inspiration. Here's the author's own description:
QuotePaladin is a variable-setting role-playing game in which you play holy warriors: men and women given extraordinary gifts by a benevolent supernatural force, gifts that they use to fight back evil while trying to maintain their own purity. This archetype is found from myth to pseudo-history to modern movies: Knights Templar fighting the heathen hordes and their sorcerers, Shaolin Monks keeping back English invaders in the Boxer Rebellion, Buffy and pals kicking vampire ass, or Star Wars' Jedi against the Empire and the Dark Side of the Force.
Might be worth a quick read.
Quote from: rgalex on April 18, 2023, 11:13:59 PM
Paladin by Clinton R. Nixon is a great rules light (28 pages) game and while not straight up Star Wars, SW was a big inspiration. Here's the author's own description:
QuotePaladin is a variable-setting role-playing game in which you play holy warriors: men and women given extraordinary gifts by a benevolent supernatural force, gifts that they use to fight back evil while trying to maintain their own purity. This archetype is found from myth to pseudo-history to modern movies: Knights Templar fighting the heathen hordes and their sorcerers, Shaolin Monks keeping back English invaders in the Boxer Rebellion, Buffy and pals kicking vampire ass, or Star Wars' Jedi against the Empire and the Dark Side of the Force.
Might be worth a quick read.
Dunno if it's worth the read but it's CC By SA, here's the archived pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20170209211922/http://crngames.com/files/other/paladin.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20170209211922/http://crngames.com/files/other/paladin.pdf)
Best rules lite Star Wars is Risus.
https://medium.com/theuglymonster/risus-is-the-best-rpg-system-for-star-wars-ce2da734c602
Just found my old copy of SW 1E. Been while since I read through it. It is much liter than I remembered. I must have been thinking of the Revised version (Millennium Falcon cover.)
Yeah the d6 version isn't lite. If you like pages of equipment, skills, powers, and ships, and rules for strafing because its somehow a TTRPG with tank controls, use D6. Which I do at times, but people who say its 'rules lite' are not remembering the whole thing.
Despite supposedly feeling like it should have a lite game somewhere, every single Star Wars RPG has been extensively rules heavy. d6, d20, and FFG all being thick.
WEG 1E is rules light. It may not be today's version of rules light, but it is. Character gen is 2 pages. The core rules of the game are 6 pages. You throw some d6s and add them up and maybe add a one or two to the total. The game is very cinematic, if it is important to know when someone acts before someone else, the total of their roll is used. The higher amount happens first. The equipment list is very generic. There are enough ships and NPCs for a game. If you want to expand, you can add The Sourcebook. All you need is the core book. Most groups used the core book and the sourcebook and had years of gaming enjoyment.
While Star Adventurer is a great rule set for a Star Wars style game, it is missing one thing for me, NPCs. Even a few sample ones and suggestions on making more would have been helpful. If I wanted to do Star Wars with an OSR, I would use White Star before Star Adventurer. White Star I would also consider rules light since it is based on White Box: FMAG, which is a clone of the original 3 books for OD&D.
Quote from: Malaky on April 19, 2023, 12:42:14 AMCharacter gen is 2 pages. The core rules of the game are 6 pages.
I mean when you strip away 90% of the in-practice rules and use shorthand and keep the core, then GURPS 4e is rules light. Hell, I could make the argument that GURPS fits on 2 pages.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 07:26:55 PM
Star Wars D6 is not rules lite.
It is. It's the absolute minimum amount of rules needed to
accurately represent the setting; less than that and you get a useless thought experiment (aka what passes for "rules light" today)
It seems Rules Lite can join Storygame and OSR in 'terms people can't even agree upon.'
I use White Star for space opera; I love how it has every popular SF film & show's monsters all mashed up. if I wasn't I'd use Star Wars 1e with Companion, or Mini Six - Imperium in Revolt. All of those are reasonably rules light IMO. I certainly think D6 System is a better fit for Star Wars than any D&D based system can be.
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 19, 2023, 01:46:37 AM
It seems Rules Lite can join Storygame and OSR in 'terms people can't even agree upon.'
Yeah, that's the problem.
Quote from: S'mon on April 19, 2023, 01:56:01 AM
I use White Star for space opera; I love how it has every popular SF film & show's monsters all mashed up. if I wasn't I'd use Star Wars 1e with Companion, or Mini Six - Imperium in Revolt. All of those are reasonably rules light IMO. I certainly think D6 System is a better fit for Star Wars than any D&D based system can be.
Why the companion? We never found much use for it.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 19, 2023, 02:34:45 AM
Why the companion? We never found much use for it.
It had the Target Number errata.
Quote from: Brad on April 18, 2023, 06:13:39 PM
You can get the collector edition reprints from many places. I have a set I got for $35. Also:
http://d6holocron.com/downloads/books/REUP.pdf
I forgot about this. I think more people should know about this edition.
Thanks for the link.
Quote from: ForgottenF on April 18, 2023, 07:48:43 PM
Me, sad to say. I'd like to like Star Wars. As a kid I loved it, but for whatever reason I've gong increasingly cold on Star Wars over the years.
I would say my issue with playing Star Wars is that it feels like the universe is so fleshed out that it doesn't feel like the characters can really make a difference in the universe. The history is set.
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2023, 10:33:29 PM
Bullshit.
I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game.
Ok, I have to know more about this. I am sure this is a really interesting story. ;D
I have played/run SW D6 2nd edition Revised from WEG.
People seem to prefer the 1st edition over the 2nd edition Revised. What are the big differences?
Why is first edition better?
Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 09:49:29 PM
For a rules lite game? Reduce it to 15 pages, and get rid of the rules we never used anyway.
The Player's section in the main rulebook is 18 pages INCLUDING the solo adventure...any more light than that and you're gonna end up with something that is so lacking any sort of flavor that it won't be Star Wars anymore.
While I agree you CAN play a SW game using something even less rigorous than 1st edition WEG SW, those usually have a dearth of information that you'll need to supplement anyway. As far as equipment goes, do you REALLY need any more info than storm trooper rifle and blaster pistol? Storm trooper armor code? Etc., just ignore all the other stuff.
RE: Companion, I looked through mine last night just to refresh my memory and the only thing from there that is remotely useful are the ranges for difficulty and the uncertainty dice, both of which can be dropped in without any issues. I never used the ranges and had zero issues...static difficulty is pretty pervasive in modern games, so whatever.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 09:03:02 AM
I have played/run SW D6 2nd edition Revised from WEG.
People seem to prefer the 1st edition over the 2nd edition Revised. What are the big differences?
Why is first edition better?
Replying to this since it is a good question...I have played 1st, 2nd, 2nd Revised, SAGA, and d20. The major mechanical difference between the WEG versions is the wild die and the way some of the combat options work with multiple actions. Basically the wild die is similar to the ghost die in Ghostbusters in that it introduces some sort of possible bad or random stuff into rolls, but quite honestly while this fits Ghostbusters it sucks for SW. I hate it. Combat is handled differently, too, with how many D6 you lose for doing multiple actions and it adds a massive amount of complication. In 1st say you have a 5D in Blaster and want to shoot twice in the round. No problem, that's a 1D decrease, so two shots at 4D (which on good rolls will wound storm troopers). Perhaps you take a shot at 4D, but now need to Dodge because you are gonna get hit by a storm trooper who didn't fail his eye exam. Third action, Dodge is at 3D, and your subsequent Blaster shot is at 3D (-2D for three actions). That's it. There is no retroactive application to the first shot because it's already done. 2nd fucks this up with all sorts of pre-emptive "reaction" stuff, which probably makes more sense LOGICALLY but in play it is essentially irrelevant and annoying. And it's not cinematic whatsoever.
There are lots of other minor differences, but I think 1st captures the cinematic, fast moving action of SW extremely well and glosses over the gritty realism that has no place in an SW game. 2nd/2nd revised add crap you do not need. 1st is also presented better, and written better. The solo example of play in vastly better, for instance. The provided templates are expansive enough to be evocative, but short enough that you can figure out a character concept in a few minutes. It keeps player choice to a reasonable level and lets you get on with the game instead of getting hung up with customization that doesn't move the game along.
People always bring up Force users...well, yeah, they are fucking badass when they get a lot of points in Force skills. So what? This is the same argument that wizards are annoying because at 20th level they're casting Wish when fighters just have more magical swords. So what? Jedi SHOULD be feared, and a PC Jedi is as rare as an honest politician. I ran a game over the summer for some buddies a few years back and we played a ton, like every day for two months. The characters advanced quite a bit and eventually it became obvious the game was starting to revolve around the lone Jedi PC because he had attracted the attention of the Emperor. Vader shows up, tests the PC, then lets them go. One of the players pointed out the shift in focus, but no one cared because it was fucking Star Wars and if you have a Jedi in your group who is gaining some Force ability, you bet your ass he's going to be targeted by the Emperor. They eventually blew up a capital ship in a hit-n-run allegedly used by the Emperor, but the game ended before they ever found out if he was actually on it or not. I digress...it's not an issue, it's one of those thought experiments people create who have never actually played the game.
RE: d20 and SAGA...d20 makes a great video game. SAGA makes a nice coaster.
EDIT: Almost forgot about Star Warriors...good luck tracking this down, but one of the better boardgames ever made for SW ship combat. And it integrates perfectly with the RPG. Definitely not rules light, but provides some very fulfilling space battles.
Quote from: Brad on April 19, 2023, 09:54:47 AM
Replying to this since it is a good question...I have played 1st, 2nd, 2nd Revised, SAGA, and d20. The major mechanical difference between the WEG versions is the wild die and the way some of the combat options work with multiple actions. Basically the wild die is similar to the ghost die in Ghostbusters in that it introduces some sort of possible bad or random stuff into rolls, but quite honestly while this fits Ghostbusters it sucks for SW. I hate it. Combat is handled differently, too, with how many D6 you lose for doing multiple actions and it adds a massive amount of complication. In 1st say you have a 5D in Blaster and want to shoot twice in the round. No problem, that's a 1D decrease, so two shots at 4D (which on good rolls will wound storm troopers). Perhaps you take a shot at 4D, but now need to Dodge because you are gonna get hit by a storm trooper who didn't fail his eye exam. Third action, Dodge is at 3D, and your subsequent Blaster shot is at 3D (-2D for three actions). That's it. There is no retroactive application to the first shot because it's already done. 2nd fucks this up with all sorts of pre-emptive "reaction" stuff, which probably makes more sense LOGICALLY but in play it is essentially irrelevant and annoying. And it's not cinematic whatsoever.
There are lots of other minor differences, but I think 1st captures the cinematic, fast moving action of SW extremely well and glosses over the gritty realism that has no place in an SW game. 2nd/2nd revised add crap you do not need. 1st is also presented better, and written better. The solo example of play in vastly better, for instance. The provided templates are expansive enough to be evocative, but short enough that you can figure out a character concept in a few minutes. It keeps player choice to a reasonable level and lets you get on with the game instead of getting hung up with customization that doesn't move the game along.
People always bring up Force users...well, yeah, they are fucking badass when they get a lot of points in Force skills. So what? This is the same argument that wizards are annoying because at 20th level they're casting Wish when fighters just have more magical swords. So what? Jedi SHOULD be feared, and a PC Jedi is as rare as an honest politician. I ran a game over the summer for some buddies a few years back and we played a ton, like every day for two months. The characters advanced quite a bit and eventually it became obvious the game was starting to revolve around the lone Jedi PC because he had attracted the attention of the Emperor. Vader shows up, tests the PC, then lets them go. One of the players pointed out the shift in focus, but no one cared because it was fucking Star Wars and if you have a Jedi in your group who is gaining some Force ability, you bet your ass he's going to be targeted by the Emperor. They eventually blew up a capital ship in a hit-n-run allegedly used by the Emperor, but the game ended before they ever found out if he was actually on it or not. I digress...it's not an issue, it's one of those thought experiments people create who have never actually played the game.
I appreciate the explanation. I have never played the D20 or Saga edition so I know nothing about them.
I don't have a problem with losing a die when doing multiple attacks since if you didn't do that characters would become invincible. A problem I have with the SW D6 version is that it really broke at high levels. Characters would have skills that are so high that even with a multi attack penalty the player's character was always successful which is what caused the game to become not fun.
I generally didnt have Jedi characters because I thought the SW D6 rules never explained how to play and create them very well which meant I generally wouldn't allow them in my game.
Another vote for the original Star Wars D6. There was a pullout in the early adventures that tweaked the range of target numbers and cleared up reaction skills if I recall.
(https://i.postimg.cc/y8WXKmyf/WEG400011.png)
Pick a template from the back of the book.
The stats are fixed, can't up them but the skills underneath have the same value as the stat (so for example Dodge and Blaster under Dex would have a value of 4D, the number of dice you roll). Add 7D (no more than 2D to one skill) to the skills. Equipment is on the flip side of the character sheet so you don't have to pore through pages of stuff and figure out if it's any good.
Play.
That's character creation. I picked Bounty Hunter out because it seemed that Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, one of the jedi types and Brash Pilot were the most popular in our group. Only issue we had after months of blowing shit up (Star Wars=Rebel space terrorists the roleplaying game basically) and getting rather good at it Stormtroopers became irrelevant. Thinking back I should have made Blue, Green, Red, Black all the other colours of Stormtrooper and upped the stats but I was fixated on keeping things canon. With 9D-10D blaster and force skills the characters were getting sort of near the canon Star Wars characters (Han Solo is a beast).
All that was before the dark times though. Before the prequels.
My love for Star Wars fell off a cliff but if I were going back to a Galaxy far far away it would be with 1st Edition. I have 2nd and 2nd revised and the Reup fan book (which is great, a real labour of love) but you don't need the extras that get tacked on with later versions. Keep it simple. 1e.
I like how the stormtrooper Expy in the Mini Six version, the Centurion, has 18 dice of stats and is a badass. ;D
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 09:00:21 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2023, 10:33:29 PM
Bullshit.
I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game.
Ok, I have to know more about this. I am sure this is a really interesting story. ;D
I'm at work right now, but I'll post it up when I get home.
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 19, 2023, 12:06:09 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 09:00:21 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2023, 10:33:29 PM
Bullshit.
I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game.
Ok, I have to know more about this. I am sure this is a really interesting story. ;D
I'm at work right now, but I'll post it up when I get home.
Great. I appreciate it. Sounds like a very interesting story.
Quote from: Brad on April 19, 2023, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 09:49:29 PM
For a rules lite game? Reduce it to 15 pages, and get rid of the rules we never used anyway.
The Player's section in the main rulebook is 18 pages INCLUDING the solo adventure...any more light than that and you're gonna end up with something that is so lacking any sort of flavor that it won't be Star Wars anymore.
While I agree you CAN play a SW game using something even less rigorous than 1st edition WEG SW, those usually have a dearth of information that you'll need to supplement anyway. As far as equipment goes, do you REALLY need any more info than storm trooper rifle and blaster pistol? Storm trooper armor code? Etc., just ignore all the other stuff.
I guess it comes down to what the OP meant by "rules lite." He might look at the WEG book and say "No, that's way too much." I generally agree with your assessment that anything less than those 18 pages is going to be inadequate (I said 15, but whatever.) But it really comes down to what the OP meant by rules lite.
What I've seen from the rules-lite crowd is they want something minimal, like Risus. Or "Lasers and Feelings," which is Star Trek in barely a page. As someone mentioned upthread, stuff like that tends to be a thought experiment with little value. Not my thing, but some people seem to enjoy it.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 19, 2023, 03:20:24 PM
I guess it comes down to what the OP meant by "rules lite." He might look at the WEG book and say "No, that's way too much." I generally agree with your assessment that anything less than those 18 pages is going to be inadequate (I said 15, but whatever.) But it really comes down to what the OP meant by rules lite.
What I've seen from the rules-lite crowd is they want something minimal, like Risus. Or "Lasers and Feelings," which is Star Trek in barely a page. As someone mentioned upthread, stuff like that tends to be a thought experiment with little value. Not my thing, but some people seem to enjoy it.
I dunno, those sorts of "rules-light" games are pretty...sparse. To the point you have to add a bunch of stuff to make them anything remotely resembling a real RPG. White Star could work, but it's not more simpler than WEG SW. I've tried to get into something like Microlite but when you start adding stuff that makes it fun it turns into B/X with ascending AC, so why even bother?
And yeah, OP needs to define what he means by that phrase, anyway. I think most RPGs are fairly rules-light for the most part but that's because I like SFB.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 09:00:21 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2023, 10:33:29 PM
Bullshit.
I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game.
Ok, I have to know more about this. I am sure this is a really interesting story. ;D
Once upon a time, in a small city called Knoxville, there was a nerd bar named Green's Tavern. It wasn't a huge place, but it was a cozy place that could seat about 80. Had several widescreen TVs hanging on the walls, but they would never play any sports - sportsball was not allowed in there (neither was Johnny Cash on the jukebox, but that is another story). The owners were a short dark haired German woman named Anya and a tall buff bald guy named Jeff who looked like he used to play Rugby (as a whole team by himself). This was the kind of place where you knew you were welcome if you walked in and were greeted with "Oh, fuck - it's you." and a hug from Anya or a "Honey, a bug just flew in, can you get me the flyswatter?" from Jeff. I loved that place.
Both owners were science fiction and fantasy fans and gamers. Since weekend days were kind of quiet, they encouraged people to run their TTRPGs there. I had been running a d6 Star Wars game for the past month and a half on Saturdays.
I went in on a Thursday night sat down at the bar and Anya asked if I wanted to talk about the game with some guys who had seen me run it. I agreed and we started chatting. I was answering a lot of questions because most of them had played D&D and didn't know that any other TTRPGs had existed. As I was talking, I noticed that a few more people had come over to listen. They said that they wanted to try it and I responded with, "How about now?"
So I went out to my car and grabbed the main rulebook (2nd Ed R&E), some dice, and a notebook. Everyone had downed at least two pints by then and we passed the book around so that people could choose character templates. I got all nine of them set up and went through the Quick Encounters from Schweighofer's convention notes and some small time side quests from a Polyhedron Newszine. We played until closing (about five hours total).
I won't call it my best GMing, but we had fun. It was very impromptu.
If I could have planned it out, I would have used a copy of the Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game, made plenty of handouts, brought a bunch of pencils, and used Team Recovery adventure from Challenge magazine.
Quote from: Brad on April 19, 2023, 03:48:28 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on April 19, 2023, 03:20:24 PM
I guess it comes down to what the OP meant by "rules lite." He might look at the WEG book and say "No, that's way too much." I generally agree with your assessment that anything less than those 18 pages is going to be inadequate (I said 15, but whatever.) But it really comes down to what the OP meant by rules lite.
What I've seen from the rules-lite crowd is they want something minimal, like Risus. Or "Lasers and Feelings," which is Star Trek in barely a page. As someone mentioned upthread, stuff like that tends to be a thought experiment with little value. Not my thing, but some people seem to enjoy it.
I dunno, those sorts of "rules-light" games are pretty...sparse. To the point you have to add a bunch of stuff to make them anything remotely resembling a real RPG. White Star could work, but it's not more simpler than WEG SW. I've tried to get into something like Microlite but when you start adding stuff that makes it fun it turns into B/X with ascending AC, so why even bother?
And yeah, OP needs to define what he means by that phrase, anyway. I think most RPGs are fairly rules-light for the most part but that's because I like SFB.
I assume you've given ASL and RM a shot as well then.
I lost all my ASL in a move and didn't go back, but I'll still play RM and SFB.
Fan made SWADE Star Wars is free. It's excellent, and since it's Savage Worlds it's very tweakable to your tastes.
Core Companion
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZS6qxH_0MG8TTVAF9e0fw8Qh7FjbAMNy/view
Planetary Guide
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y85MBcaTyizD7G3Sz1mAxEOIYMEuO8wd/view
Tapani Campaign - a free entire campaign
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lUKbytrZNDoza-xBDcvVSbFpX5OKMu7q
He's also made a ton of one-shots.
Quote from: PulpHerb on April 19, 2023, 05:53:54 PM
I assume you've given ASL and RM a shot as well then.
I lost all my ASL in a move and didn't go back, but I'll still play RM and SFB.
ASL is my panacea for wargames, although Advanced Third Reich is right up there. I am still trying to figure out Magic Realm, though...NOT an easy game whatsoever.
I remember when I was a kid everyone bought those Avalon Hill games, like Gladiator, Titan, and Wizard War and whatever else, around the same time Dragonslayer came out. My parents and all their friends gave up, but I taught myself to play, or at least I think I did. Many fond memories reading the most dense rules possible and not being frustrated at all. Cannot say the same thing now.
EDIT: The SW Savage World stuff is very well done for what it is. Not surprised who posted a link to that...
Quote from: Brad on April 19, 2023, 09:54:47 AM
RE: d20 and SAGA...d20 makes a great video game. SAGA makes a nice coaster.
The gold standard for coasters is AOL CDs and I don't think SAGA holds up against it. I have played SAGA found that I liked what it promised, but could not find what it delivered. Talent "trees" that don't branch come to mind.
For SW d20, I was not playing in Star Wars but found the wounds/vitality mechanic cool and too steep a death spiral. Making wounds cause vitality bleed and or drain vitality instead of penalizing rolls.
Savage Worlds is probably about right for a lower middle crunch game.
For lower crunch, 1E Scion could feel right, but needs an adaptation. Likewise, I think Ashen Stars delivers the best compromise on space combat, but the rest of it is unfortunately Gumshoe.
At the absolute low end of rules-lite as a minimalist exercise, plug Star Wars into Simple World.
I agree RE Star Wars D6 1E. I may be biased because this was the game that got me into rpgs in the late 80s, but I still think it's stupid easy to play or run.
There was a free game called Star Wars Galactic Adventures floating around the web several years ago. I'm not sure how lite it is (I have a copy but it has been a while since I've looked at it) but it is based on older classic D&D (BX or BECMi), like an OSR version of Star Wars. If you are familiar with those it may be worth tracking down to see if it is "lite" enough for you.
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 19, 2023, 05:30:44 PM
Once upon a time, in a small city called Knoxville, there was a nerd bar named Green's Tavern. It wasn't a huge place, but it was a cozy place that could seat about 80. Had several widescreen TVs hanging on the walls, but they would never play any sports - sportsball was not allowed in there (neither was Johnny Cash on the jukebox, but that is another story). The owners were a short dark haired German woman named Anya and a tall buff bald guy named Jeff who looked like he used to play Rugby (as a whole team by himself). This was the kind of place where you knew you were welcome if you walked in and were greeted with "Oh, fuck - it's you." and a hug from Anya or a "Honey, a bug just flew in, can you get me the flyswatter?" from Jeff. I loved that place.
Both owners were science fiction and fantasy fans and gamers. Since weekend days were kind of quiet, they encouraged people to run their TTRPGs there. I had been running a d6 Star Wars game for the past month and a half on Saturdays.
I went in on a Thursday night sat down at the bar and Anya asked if I wanted to talk about the game with some guys who had seen me run it. I agreed and we started chatting. I was answering a lot of questions because most of them had played D&D and didn't know that any other TTRPGs had existed. As I was talking, I noticed that a few more people had come over to listen. They said that they wanted to try it and I responded with, "How about now?"
So I went out to my car and grabbed the main rulebook (2nd Ed R&E), some dice, and a notebook. Everyone had downed at least two pints by then and we passed the book around so that people could choose character templates. I got all nine of them set up and went through the Quick Encounters from Schweighofer's convention notes and some small time side quests from a Polyhedron Newszine. We played until closing (about five hours total).
I won't call it my best GMing, but we had fun. It was very impromptu.
If I could have planned it out, I would have used a copy of the Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game, made plenty of handouts, brought a bunch of pencils, and used Team Recovery adventure from Challenge magazine.
Very cool story. Thanks for sharing it.
Looked it up and it appears it closed 3 years ago. Too bad. Need more places like that.
Wrong thread
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 08:58:56 AM
Quote from: ForgottenF on April 18, 2023, 07:48:43 PM
Me, sad to say. I'd like to like Star Wars. As a kid I loved it, but for whatever reason I've gong increasingly cold on Star Wars over the years.
I would say my issue with playing Star Wars is that it feels like the universe is so fleshed out that it doesn't feel like the characters can really make a difference in the universe. The history is set.
I really don't get this sentiment given the sheer amount of EU stuff and resent stuff like the Mandalorian that contradicts it. The amount of stuff that characters could potentially do other than live under the shadows of the main films protagonists is staggering. Even after the death of the Emperor there were still countless remnants of the Empire out at the edges of civilization in a vast galaxy teeming with life and habitable planets, as well as tons of criminal elements to fill the void of the power vacuum left behind.
The establishment of the New Republic is far from a done deal and stuff that threatens its existence is scattered all over the place. Characters could be envoys trying to get newly liberated planets to join the Republic, members of the Republic military tasked with protecting member planets or investigating new threats. Or perhaps New Republic intelligence trying to ferret out Imperial agents and saboteurs.
There's also the reestablishment of the Jedi Order, and while Luke is the obvious candidate for that there's no reason he has to be the only one, as there are competing Force using ideologies, like Grey Jedi, Witches of Dathomir, etc. As well as potential Jedi remnants scattered out in hiding across the galaxy, lost Jedi lore in holocrons waiting to be discovered, ancient Jedi temples, and more. Jedi PCs not named Luke could surely tackle that.
And that's not even getting into the possibility of running campaigns based around criminal elements, mercenaries or bounty hunters and such. There's so much crap to do in the Star Wars universe, I don't know where the idea that its history is set comes from, other than not knowing enough about it. And even then a lot of this stuff is implied in the films themselves. So you don't really need to be that familiar with the EU to get there.
I've had good results with StarORE (https://www.arcdream.com/pdf/starore.pdf)
Quote from: Aglondir on April 18, 2023, 07:26:55 PM
Star Wars D6 is not rules lite.
This is true. Certainly the core elements are solid and easy to understand, but that doesn't mean "rules-lite".
Quote from: Brad on April 18, 2023, 08:58:20 PM
You can look at the character sheet and figure out what it means in two seconds. You literally roll the number of dice stated to hit a target number. That is it. How much "lighter" do you need it to be?
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2023, 10:33:29 PM
Bullshit.
I managed to get a bar full of drunks to create characters and start playing in less than 15 minutes using that game.
Quote from: Malaky on April 19, 2023, 12:42:14 AM
WEG 1E is rules light. It may not be today's version of rules light, but it is. Character gen is 2 pages. The core rules of the game are 6 pages. You throw some d6s and add them up and maybe add a one or two to the total.
"It's rules-lite if you ignore the majority of the rules".
(https://files.catbox.moe/sf4m9d.png)
Quote from: Venka on April 20, 2023, 04:37:28 PM
"It's rules-lite if you ignore the majority of the rules".
Imagine posting this like you made a point...like, where is the evidence? Counterargument?
Quote from: Brad on April 19, 2023, 03:48:28 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on April 19, 2023, 03:20:24 PM
I guess it comes down to what the OP meant by "rules lite." He might look at the WEG book and say "No, that's way too much." I generally agree with your assessment that anything less than those 18 pages is going to be inadequate (I said 15, but whatever.) But it really comes down to what the OP meant by rules lite.
What I've seen from the rules-lite crowd is they want something minimal, like Risus. Or "Lasers and Feelings," which is Star Trek in barely a page. As someone mentioned upthread, stuff like that tends to be a thought experiment with little value. Not my thing, but some people seem to enjoy it.
I dunno, those sorts of "rules-light" games are pretty...sparse. To the point you have to add a bunch of stuff to make them anything remotely resembling a real RPG. White Star could work, but it's not more simpler than WEG SW. I've tried to get into something like Microlite but when you start adding stuff that makes it fun it turns into B/X with ascending AC, so why even bother?
And yeah, OP needs to define what he means by that phrase, anyway. I think most RPGs are fairly rules-light for the most part but that's because I like SFB.
I've had this idea about very rules light games, originally something I thought of doing with OD&D but the post on Microlite 2020 revived:
Start a campaign with such a set and declare at the beginning you will add as you go. Players can request ideas and its up to you to implement.
Note, ideas. They can request a paladin, but not the specific paladin from Supplement 1 or a given supplement, although you might use them. It would be written/selected based on what fits.
Quote from: Venka on April 20, 2023, 04:37:28 PM
"It's rules-lite if you ignore the majority of the rules".
Isn't that what the majority of "rules-lite" systems do? Copy most of the core mechanics of an existing system, then ignore the majority of the rules and content like ships and equipment and such?
If you fail to include anything in a game beyond the most basic stripped down core components, of course you're gonna have less content than a complete game full of supplementary stuff and campaign fluff, etc. Which is most of what the extra stuff in WEG Star Wars is, IIRC.
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 20, 2023, 06:43:26 PMIsn't that what the majority of "rules-lite" systems do?
Id posit a rules-lite system is something that feels complete in that streamlined way. I hate FATE., but its more or less complete. While D&D 5e can be played with just a fighter, its not really "rules lite" is it?
Quote from: Brad on April 20, 2023, 05:14:02 PM
Quote from: Venka on April 20, 2023, 04:37:28 PM
"It's rules-lite if you ignore the majority of the rules".
Imagine posting this like you made a point...like, where is the evidence? Counterargument?
1e is pretty close, but it still has some fat to trim before I'd call it rules-lite. A few examples:
Shooting Difficulty based on range which is divided up into 4 increments. It's not bad, but I'd probably just make it S/M/L.
Damage based on two rolls with 4 possible outcomes and using varying multiples. There has to be a simpler way. Maybe cut out the Str roll and make it a fixed damage threshold of some sort.
Take out the skills and just make it all attribute checks. Similar deal with Force Powers. Maybe at most allow a specialty of some sort to be declared.
Hold out blaster, sporting blaster, blaster pistol, heavy blaster pistol, hunting blaster, blaster rifle, blaster carbine, repeating blaster, medium repeating blaster, heavy repeating blaster all with different ranges and damage. Cut that down to lite, med and heavy.
Grenade Scatter Diagram has to go.
Force Difficulty Chart with modifiers based on proximity and relationships which leans into...
...Not a fan of granular mods in a lite game. Give me an advantage/disadvantage system of some sort. It could be like D&D5e (roll extra die and take better/worse or just a flat +1d or -1d that can cancel each other. Do you have an advantage, +1. Disadvantage, -1. Something helping and something hindering they cancel. In a lite system I don't want to be adding every + and - like a laundry list to get a balance.
Quote from: rgalex on April 20, 2023, 11:23:28 PM
1e is pretty close, but it still has some fat to trim before I'd call it rules-lite. A few examples:
Shooting Difficulty based on range which is divided up into 4 increments. It's not bad, but I'd probably just make it S/M/L.
Damage based on two rolls with 4 possible outcomes and using varying multiples. There has to be a simpler way. Maybe cut out the Str roll and make it a fixed damage threshold of some sort.
Take out the skills and just make it all attribute checks. Similar deal with Force Powers. Maybe at most allow a specialty of some sort to be declared.
Hold out blaster, sporting blaster, blaster pistol, heavy blaster pistol, hunting blaster, blaster rifle, blaster carbine, repeating blaster, medium repeating blaster, heavy repeating blaster all with different ranges and damage. Cut that down to lite, med and heavy.
Grenade Scatter Diagram has to go.
Force Difficulty Chart with modifiers based on proximity and relationships which leans into...
...Not a fan of granular mods in a lite game. Give me an advantage/disadvantage system of some sort. It could be like D&D5e (roll extra die and take better/worse or just a flat +1d or -1d that can cancel each other. Do you have an advantage, +1. Disadvantage, -1. Something helping and something hindering they cancel. In a lite system I don't want to be adding every + and - like a laundry list to get a balance.
No, you're supposed to post memes not actual points!!!!!
Eh, I suppose you can do some of that stuff, but then the game isn't as evocative and doesn't say "Star Wars". This is exactly why I like the generic D6 games in theory, but in actual play they are just...flat. The system itself was designed for a certain style of play, and when you strip out all the background and flavor, it's essentially just rolling dice. The blaster argument is exactly what I was talking about before. This is just fluff...once you start playing someone will ask "what is the difference between the blaster Leia uses at the beginning of Star Wars and the one she uses in Return of the Jedi?" "Well, they're both light" is okay, I guess, but holdout vs. blaster pistol is more interesting.
RE: skills, the names themselves MAKE the game. "Repulsorlift OP" hammers it into your head you're PLAYING STAR WARS!!!! and not some generic scifi game. So, again, you can do all that stuff, but then you might as well just use White Star or something light and even easier.
Quote from: Brad on April 21, 2023, 09:00:13 AM
No, you're supposed to post memes not actual points!!!!!
Oh, shit, my bad. My meme-fu is kinda weak.
Quote
Eh, I suppose you can do some of that stuff, but then the game isn't as evocative and doesn't say "Star Wars". This is exactly why I like the generic D6 games in theory, but in actual play they are just...flat. The system itself was designed for a certain style of play, and when you strip out all the background and flavor, it's essentially just rolling dice. The blaster argument is exactly what I was talking about before. This is just fluff...once you start playing someone will ask "what is the difference between the blaster Leia uses at the beginning of Star Wars and the one she uses in Return of the Jedi?" "Well, they're both light" is okay, I guess, but holdout vs. blaster pistol is more interesting.
RE: skills, the names themselves MAKE the game. "Repulsorlift OP" hammers it into your head you're PLAYING STAR WARS!!!! and not some generic scifi game. So, again, you can do all that stuff, but then you might as well just use White Star or something light and even easier.
I mean, I agree with you on most of that. I quite like the system as is. However, the OP was asking for lite systems and this is more on the lite end of medium, IMO. You even seem to maybe agree at the end there where you contrast it to "White Star or something light and even easier".
Again, like others have said, I guess it just depends on where you draw that line in the sand between medium and lite.
It seems that D6 Star Wars straddles the divide between "Light" or "Medium" crunch.
For me I'm just fine using Mini-Six instead of any of the WEG Star Wars games. One caveat I have is I don't use the "Sense Danger" power at all. I have my own "Deflect Ranged Attacks" instead. I also let the GM set the difficulty of a spell on the fly. It's easy to bend a spoon you're holding using telekinesis, but lifting an army tank out of the mud from a kilometer away sounds very, very hard.
The games I'm thinking of modifying are games like Tiny D6 Frontiers, Swords and Six Siders, Pocket Fantasy, or Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool.
Quote from: Malaky on April 19, 2023, 12:42:14 AM
While Star Adventurer is a great rule set for a Star Wars style game, it is missing one thing for me, NPCs. Even a few sample ones and suggestions on making more would have been helpful. If I wanted to do Star Wars with an OSR, I would use White Star before Star Adventurer. White Star I would also consider rules light since it is based on White Box: FMAG, which is a clone of the original 3 books for OD&D.
See, I'm the opposite. I would use Star Adventurer over White Star, and my White Star would use the Between Star and Void supplement.
You are right that some GM material like pre-made ships and NPCs would be nice.
Getting back on topic.
I would say that if you like the D6 system then I would suggest looking at the Reup edition (someone lined to it in the thread).
It is quite good and free.
Makes me want to run Star Wars D6 again.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 19, 2023, 08:58:56 AM
I would say my issue with playing Star Wars is that it feels like the universe is so fleshed out that it doesn't feel like the characters can really make a difference in the universe. The history is set.
It depends.
I like playing in the non-canon MMO setting of Star Wars The Old Republic by BioWare. Two great nations with thousands of Force Users per side.
Or plan-B is to create my own Star Wars universe where things are familiar, but changes made to keep it fresh. Like my version has Force Users created by their master in a knighting ceremony, weakening the master to make a level-1 beginning Force User. Or cloning being unethical, but the high and snooty Republic resorts to it when they're on the verge of losing to the Empire who lacks any such morals. Up till now everyone used inferior droid armies.
Quote from: rgalex on April 21, 2023, 10:57:36 AM
I mean, I agree with you on most of that. I quite like the system as is. However, the OP was asking for lite systems and this is more on the lite end of medium, IMO. You even seem to maybe agree at the end there where you contrast it to "White Star or something light and even easier".
Again, like others have said, I guess it just depends on where you draw that line in the sand between medium and lite.
I just want to touch on this idea using d6 Star Wars as an example.
For most games, I prefer using 2e R&E from WEG because it is balanced just right in that it includes a smattering of everything I want (skills, equipment, templates, creatures, aliens, droids, vehicles, starships, and a handful of world examples plus a primer on the Star Wars universe). 1e has too little of all of the above, 2e has is missing some important starship/vehicle/equipment modification/repair rules in 2e R&E, and REUP is everything which is a bit too much. For new players, I prefer the Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game because it is rules lighter than 2e R&E but is wholly comparable with it so I have room to grow as needed.
A lot of the factors which will determine whether or not the game you use is rules light depends on the experience level of your players and the comfort zone of the GM.
I had a coworker gather a few other coworkers and convinced them to try fantasy gaming and wanted me to GM. I suggested Labyrinth Lord because these guys and gals had never played a RPG before. My buddy decided to have them cut their teeth on Pathfinder 1e and loaned out his core rulebook. Half of those interested decided to drop out before the first game when they saw that 2-pound 600-page book and thought that they had to learn all of that before playing.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 21, 2023, 01:29:11 PM
Quote from: Malaky on April 19, 2023, 12:42:14 AM
While Star Adventurer is a great rule set for a Star Wars style game, it is missing one thing for me, NPCs. Even a few sample ones and suggestions on making more would have been helpful. If I wanted to do Star Wars with an OSR, I would use White Star before Star Adventurer. White Star I would also consider rules light since it is based on White Box: FMAG, which is a clone of the original 3 books for OD&D.
See, I'm the opposite. I would use Star Adventurer over White Star, and my White Star would use the Between Star and Void supplement.
You are right that some GM material like pre-made ships and NPCs would be nice.
I have a good deal of third party White Star which I've thought would go well with Star Adventurer.
Seriously, pick either one and use the other as a supplement. You'd be good either way.
Quote from: S'mon on April 19, 2023, 11:35:07 AM
I like how the stormtrooper Expy in the Mini Six version, the Centurion, has 18 dice of stats and is a badass. ;D
I'm thinking this is meant to be a player character template. Actual cannon fodder grunts will probably be the stats from the sample characters, probably a 2 asterisk mook.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 23, 2023, 12:48:28 PM
Quote from: S'mon on April 19, 2023, 11:35:07 AM
I like how the stormtrooper Expy in the Mini Six version, the Centurion, has 18 dice of stats and is a badass. ;D
I'm thinking this is meant to be a player character template. Actual cannon fodder grunts will probably be the stats from the sample characters, probably a 2 asterisk mook.
It's over with the villains on the top right though, not with the PC templates.
I just found this on Drivethru. Black Star RPG by Lakeside Games. If I'm correct this game was released on May 11, 2023, so two weeks ago at the time I write this.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/437327 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/437327)
It's not free, but it's only $5. It's also rules light at 50-ish pages long.
I don't know too much about it, but it definitely is a Star Wars game with mystics which can use Beamswords and has access to a power called Deflect.
One cool feature is how characters are created. The game has 10 archetypes like Diplomat, or Mystic, or Outlaw. Your character picks two, and those are the abilities you can pick from. So you're never just a Mystic (Jedi), but a Mystic Pilot, or Mystic Outlaw, or Outlaw Diplomat. I like that.
D6 is my jam.
I will not seriously entertain anyone suggesting D6 is not rules lite. Like you might as well attend a klan rally and try to sell them on interracial dating.
It's so rules light that to run d6 fantasy for dnd drones i had to attach most of osric on top of it and then lower myself to running dragonlance.
motherfucking dragonlance.
not rules lite...gtfo.
Quote from: tenbones on April 19, 2023, 07:00:03 PM
Fan made SWADE Star Wars is free. It's excellent, and since it's Savage Worlds it's very tweakable to your tastes.
Core Companion
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZS6qxH_0MG8TTVAF9e0fw8Qh7FjbAMNy/view
Planetary Guide
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y85MBcaTyizD7G3Sz1mAxEOIYMEuO8wd/view
Tapani Campaign - a free entire campaign
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lUKbytrZNDoza-xBDcvVSbFpX5OKMu7q
He's also made a ton of one-shots.
Core companion link doesn't work
Also imma put out there FFG Star Wars if you don't mind proprietary dice it's actually pretty good.
Savage worlds can do it fantastically, if you're playing remotely it might be troublesome to use the action deck since it relies on a single deck of poker cards.
Never played weg or any of the d20 versions
Quote from: Ocule on May 23, 2023, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: tenbones on April 19, 2023, 07:00:03 PM
Fan made SWADE Star Wars is free. It's excellent, and since it's Savage Worlds it's very tweakable to your tastes.
Core Companion
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZS6qxH_0MG8TTVAF9e0fw8Qh7FjbAMNy/view
Planetary Guide
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y85MBcaTyizD7G3Sz1mAxEOIYMEuO8wd/view
Tapani Campaign - a free entire campaign
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lUKbytrZNDoza-xBDcvVSbFpX5OKMu7q
He's also made a ton of one-shots.
Core companion link doesn't work
Also imma put out there FFG Star Wars if you don't mind proprietary dice it's actually pretty good.
Savage worlds can do it fantastically, if you're playing remotely it might be troublesome to use the action deck since it relies on a single deck of poker cards.
Never played weg or any of the d20 versions
Foundry has plenty of smooth plug-ins for handling SWADE on its VTT.
The link to the Swade Star Wars Core Companion is outdated. I changed it on May 4th when I released the new Version 3.0, as tenbones noted I have a bunch of other stuff for it also. If your actually interested it's easy to find with a Google search for "Savage Worlds Star Wars Companion" the post in the PEG forums homebrew section is usually first or second.. it trades places with the Facebook group for Savage Worlds Star Wars.
I'd post direct links to both... But I understand direct links to other groups and forums is frowned upon.
You can find it here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sGKBBSleuIGBVzM50tIEBRBBMffb-_JO/view
After a couple of days of reading over the Dark Star game I've come to a few points worth talking about.
1. It's more complex than you would think. At this point I would say old West End Games D6 is simpler. Complexity isn't always bad, though I'm not a fan of that.
2. It combines stats and skills into a list of 10 things, and they're just called Abilities. Intelligence is one, while Brawling is another. Technically there are 11 Abilities, as Jedi/Force users also have Power as an Ability. Also, the number listed is the dice bonus added to a 2D6 roll.
3. Player Facing dice rolls. This means you roll to attack, but when NPC's go after you, then you also roll one of your 10 (11 if you're a Jedi) Abilities to prevent it.
4. Failing a roll isn't the end. There are three options to succeed, but it'll cost you.
5. Dice rolls are 2D6+Ability. Advantage and Disadvantage are used a lot. So you roll 3D6, pick the best/worst two dice+Ability, and get a 9 or better.
It's a nice game. But I am not sold it's better than good old D6 Star Wars from WEG.
Great thread! I'm gearing-up to run a 'Star Wars' one-shot/maybe campaign and while SW 1e from WEG seems to be the system, does Pundit's d20 Star Adventurer have space-wizards/Jedi? Couldn't find a review.
Three of the classes are Psychic Adept, Psychic Mystic and Psychic Warrior with a list of 20 psychic powers. I think it would be possible to run a Star Wars game using those for your Jedi. There are also laser swords.
Quote from: Theory of Games on May 26, 2023, 12:30:38 PM
Great thread! I'm gearing-up to run a 'Star Wars' one-shot/maybe campaign and while SW 1e from WEG seems to be the system, does Pundit's d20 Star Adventurer have space-wizards/Jedi? Couldn't find a review.
Yes.
The class list (and specialist sub-class) of Star Adventurer is this.
1. Brute (Crusader, Mercenary, Raider)
2. Explorer (Ace Pilot, Adventurer)
3. Psychic Adept (Primitive Psychic, Renegade Psychic)
4. Psychic Mystic (Mystic Scholar, Order Psychic)
5. Psychic Warrior (Dark Psychic, Psychic Knight)
6. Rogue (Bounty Hunter, Scum)
7. Technician (Investigator, Lore Master, Scientist)
8. Warrior (Gang Enforcer, Hit-man, Officer, Stormtrooper)
Don't get too excited by all of that. Mainly these destinations just mean a +1, 2, or 3 on a few skills.
Psychic Warriors are the only guys to deflect blaster shots. It's a class ability of the knight and dark knight. Mystics and Adepts are more like traditional sci-fi Psychics like Star Trek Deanna Troi or Psi-Corps from Babylon-5, and are identical except for ability requirements of a 9 in WIS vs a 9 in INT. Many of these similar sub-classes are functionally identical. A knight vs a dark knight only differ by one or two skill points, aka 5%. That's it. Those are minuscule changes. Is it bad or good that way? You decide.
Overall, Star Adventurer is a very traditional D20/D&D style game with D20 skill rolls vs Armor class. The three things that stand out is the random tables for leveling up, and the game has a skill list, and there is vehicle design and combat rules. The big negative is that there is NO help for the GM. It doesn't even have a glossary of terms for simple things like what DEX is, or pre-generated bad guys. You just need know what to do. This means it's not a game for novices.